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Confirmed w/ link: Ehrhoff/Lukowich to VAN for P. White/D. Rahimi

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Old
03-17-2010, 01:52 PM
  #626
SactoShork
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Well Blake was signed shortly before Boyle and I thought that was a precautionary gamble in case Boyle fell through. So in a way it was Blake, but the main effort was to attain Boyle. I don't understand Blake over Ehrhoff this year unless there's a lot more to the story, like locker room stuff or a shrift with management.
I actually thought this as well. I don't think Ehrhoff was well liked personally by management. He had a bit of a cavalier attitude - I remember one game he was benched, then scored a game winner in OT his next game back, and basically said that he was glad it showed up the staff.

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03-17-2010, 01:54 PM
  #627
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I can't be the only one that's happy Goc is gone. Absolutely no disrespect meant to him, but he just wasn't... helpful? useful? (neither get quite at what I mean) but I think that getting Nichol instead of Goc was one of the single best offseason moves we made.
On the flipside, I think I'd be the only one on this board who would think it more prudent to resign Goc over Mitchell.

But yes, Goc seemed a bit too comfy in his role while a Shark.

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03-17-2010, 02:00 PM
  #628
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On the flipside, I think I'd be the only one on this board who would think it more prudent to resign Goc over Mitchell.

But yes, Goc seemed a bit too comfy in his role while a Shark.
I would have signed Goc over Mitchell or possibly both

Nichol Goc Mitchell as a 4th line is very good but honestly Goc deserved a shot somewhere else and somewhere other than the 4th line.

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03-17-2010, 02:56 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
I actually thought this as well. I don't think Ehrhoff was well liked personally by management. He had a bit of a cavalier attitude - I remember one game he was benched, then scored a game winner in OT his next game back, and basically said that he was glad it showed up the staff.
I agree with the management part. However, I wouldn't use cavalier as the adjective (more appropriate to JT's comments). I would use anger/resentment. Figure two sides to the story. Please check Yawney's record in developing European players while with Norfolk and Chicago and his lack of success with developing dmen. His percentages are ridiculously low. Yawney's gold star is Keith and that is it. The others have broken out after his departure.

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03-17-2010, 03:17 PM
  #630
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No he wasnt

The Heatley trade was basically even in even out and didnt necessitate any other moves.
So mis-informed is a better term.

Hey if we say it enough, it's the truth.

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03-17-2010, 03:34 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
On the flipside, I think I'd be the only one on this board who would think it more prudent to resign Goc over Mitchell.

But yes, Goc seemed a bit too comfy in his role while a Shark.
Certainly in hindsight that makes sense, since Mitchell has turned out to be a more useless version of "Sharks" Goc at double the price, whereas Goc has turned into a competent third-line (or is he playing on the 2nd?) supplemental scorer in Nashville, having more points than Mitchell did even in the year that everyone remembers and loves him for. It's always funny to me the double standard fans hold regarding certain players. I guess everyone has their golden boys.

edit: I should say that I wasn't opposed to letting Goc go, I think he needed a change of scenery (although had I known Mitchell would have cost double his price, I may have just said "screw that, keep Goc").

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03-17-2010, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by one2gamble View Post
I would have signed Goc over Mitchell or possibly both

Nichol Goc Mitchell as a 4th line is very good but honestly Goc deserved a shot somewhere else and somewhere other than the 4th line.
No way I would have taken Goc over Mitchell. Goc had his time to shine, and never flourished. Was it because of our depth? Probably. I still have a sliver of hope for Mitchell, as he has shown us more than Goc ever had. That being said, nobody could have predicted the type of year both players are having, and I am disappointed in Mitchell, but like I said... I still have hope for Mitchell on this team.

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03-17-2010, 04:12 PM
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No way I would have taken Goc over Mitchell. Goc had his time to shine, and never flourished. Was it because of our depth? Probably. I still have a sliver of hope for Mitchell, as he has shown us more than Goc ever had. That being said, nobody could have predicted the type of year both players are having, and I am disappointed in Mitchell, but like I said... I still have hope for Mitchell on this team.
If you watched Goc before Thornton got here you could have easily imagined his current output.

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03-17-2010, 04:18 PM
  #634
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No way I would have taken Goc over Mitchell. Goc had his time to shine, and never flourished. Was it because of our depth? Probably. I still have a sliver of hope for Mitchell, as he has shown us more than Goc ever had. That being said, nobody could have predicted the type of year both players are having, and I am disappointed in Mitchell, but like I said... I still have hope for Mitchell on this team.
Can you tell me when Mitchell did this? Was it his 20 point rookie season (less than, say, Grier last year, who was constantly complained about around here), the year he missed due to injury and re-injury, or his ineffectiveness in the last playoffs? Look, like I said, no problem letting Goc go, good for both sides (I view Nichol as Goc's replacement), but other than showing "heart" two years ago, Mitchell has done nothing that should make people think he'd be more than a 20 point scorer and a fourth liner, who is a shorthanded threat (if he was still fast).

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03-17-2010, 04:51 PM
  #635
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My thought on that has little to do with Goc. It's more of me bagging on Mitchell. Who I have never liked, always thought was ridiculously overrated by Sharks fans, and was nearly run off the boards for saying so at the beginning of this season here.

No hard feelings though.

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03-17-2010, 05:03 PM
  #636
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Really though, the acquisition Malhotra was a godsend. It pretty well nullifies any loss incurred from Goc's departure. So Mitchell gets some slack because DW grabbed guys like Nichol and Manny, who have fit in perfectly.

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03-17-2010, 05:06 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by CrazedZooChimp View Post
whereas Goc has turned into a competent third-line (or is he playing on the 2nd?) supplemental scorer in Nashville,
I don't think that Nashville really has defined 2nd and 3rd lines. Legwand is obviously ahead of Goc on the depth chart, but Goc is the one playing with scoring wingers, while Legwand gets the shutdown guys. Right now, an almost completely defensive guy like Smithson gets as much icetime as Sullivan, Arnott or Erat. There seems to be a whole lot of line-mixing all the time.

Funny enough, in the last game Goc was second in icetime for all Nashville forwards.

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03-17-2010, 08:39 PM
  #638
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I agree with the management part. However, I wouldn't use cavalier as the adjective (more appropriate to JT's comments). I would use anger/resentment. Figure two sides to the story. Please check Yawney's record in developing European players while with Norfolk and Chicago and his lack of success with developing dmen. His percentages are ridiculously low. Yawney's gold star is Keith and that is it. The others have broken out after his departure.
Regardless of the merits of the dispute, Ehrhoff would be the one to leave. You can beleive all you want that if management is the problem that they were one's that needed to go. Wouldn't have happened with any org at this stage of a team. Good people get sent packing in all types of orgs when they are not the real problem and fact is sometimes they are. Ehrhoff might have been the problem too even if he fits in better elsewhere.

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Old
03-17-2010, 08:52 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Regardless of the merits of the dispute, Ehrhoff would be the one to leave. You can beleive all you want that if management is the problem that they were gonna be the one's to go. Wouldn't have happened with any org at this stage of a team. Good people get sent packing in all types of orgs when they are not the real problem and fact is sometimes they are. Ehrhoff might have been the problem too even if he fits in better elsewhere.
No problem with that viewpoint unless the management side of the story is the real problem. I do understand the reality. I also agree that there were two sides to the issue with legitimacy on both sides. I do think that management deserves much more scrutiny than the players at this stage of things. I don't think that is happening.

I am waiting for Jamison to hit the stop button and say that they are just feeding on themselves. With all of the turnover and the repetition of issues with different player personnel, it is time to start looking at management. The issues are not formed in a vacuum among the players only. I am not referring specifically to DW. It is more generic, meaning Wayne Thomas, Tim Burke, DW, Roy Sommer, Todd McLellan, Trent Yawney, JFJ, et al.

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03-17-2010, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by one2gamble View Post
No he wasnt

The Heatley trade was basically even in even out and didnt necessitate any other moves.
Again, I'm not saying that the Heatley deal forced the Sharks to dump Ehrhoff. I'm saying the Heatley deal combined with every other transaction the Sharks made during the off-season ALL contributed to it. Remember, at the time of the dump, the Sharks had 7 d-men making 1.5 mil or more and we were over the cap by about 3 million.

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Rivet is WAY BETTER than Blake. You weren't serious, right?
No he's not. Have you seen Craig Rivet this year or last year? He's been awful. Rob Blake and Craig Rivet right now are roughly equally crappy. Rivet lost a step last year and lost another step this year. It's no accident he's gotten #4 minutes in Buffalo and his production is garbage on a good team.

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To be fair, I will admit that we lost 200k capspace in that trade (7.3 v. 7.5), but that still means we only needed to clear another 700k to get a third/fourth liner to replace to 2 players that went out for 1. But either way, the meme that it was the heatley trade's fault needs to stop.
Again, I never said it was the trade for Heatley that was at fault. Heatley's trade though did contribute to it and it's that with overpaying Mitchell and Clowe, re-signing Blake and Huskins unnecessarily, and him probably getting a heads up from Murray that he will pull the trigger meant he needed to clear the 3 mil they were over at the time and extra space to get replacements for at least two positions that made it happen. As much as it's true that the oversimplification of the Ehrhoff dump was necessitated by the Heatley trade needs to stop, people need to accept that the Heatley trade played a part in it.

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03-17-2010, 11:55 PM
  #641
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No problem with that viewpoint unless the management side of the story is the real problem. I do understand the reality. I also agree that there were two sides to the issue with legitimacy on both sides. I do think that management deserves much more scrutiny than the players at this stage of things. I don't think that is happening.

I am waiting for Jamison to hit the stop button and say that they are just feeding on themselves. With all of the turnover and the repetition of issues with different player personnel, it is time to start looking at management. The issues are not formed in a vacuum among the players only. I am not referring specifically to DW. It is more generic, meaning Wayne Thomas, Tim Burke, DW, Roy Sommer, Todd McLellan, Trent Yawney, JFJ, et al.
We have an incredibly dower outlook on this team and management. And they are where in the standings? But I get it. The bar is raised. They have earned our lack of trust. These aren't your 1992 Sharks. This is a team with the budget and talent to win - and without change, will be creeping into the playoffs again playing their worst when it matters most.

I've questioned DW's decisions, Burke's player evaluations, and Sommers place in with the team in Worcester. Ehrhoff is one of the moves I was not happy with - not the trade as much as the return. I question the players commitment to each other and their Jekyll and Hyde playoff persona. I can't tell if they are girls that just want to have fun, or men that can get er done.

Either way this year, I wouldn't mind seeing some changes to the back office. Obviously, if the team goes deep - that's not going to happen - but I wouldn't mind seeing Burke, Sommer, and Wayne Thomas replaced. Lets hope there is no changes though - because that will imply a good postseason.

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03-18-2010, 12:17 AM
  #642
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Can you tell me when Mitchell did this? Was it his 20 point rookie season (less than, say, Grier last year, who was constantly complained about around here), the year he missed due to injury and re-injury, or his ineffectiveness in the last playoffs? Look, like I said, no problem letting Goc go, good for both sides (I view Nichol as Goc's replacement), but other than showing "heart" two years ago, Mitchell has done nothing that should make people think he'd be more than a 20 point scorer and a fourth liner, who is a shorthanded threat (if he was still fast).
Mitchell played 4 games in the 2009 post-season after not playing for what, 1.5 years? Can't really knock him for that one.

I agree with what has he really done though.

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03-18-2010, 12:47 AM
  #643
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We have an incredibly dower outlook on this team and management. And they are where in the standings? But I get it. The bar is raised. They have earned our lack of trust. These aren't your 1992 Sharks. This is a team with the budget and talent to win - and without change, will be creeping into the playoffs again playing their worst when it matters most.

I've questioned DW's decisions, Burke's player evaluations, and Sommers place in with the team in Worcester. Ehrhoff is one of the moves I was not happy with - not the trade as much as the return. I question the players commitment to each other and their Jekyll and Hyde playoff persona. I can't tell if they are girls that just want to have fun, or men that can get er done.

Either way this year, I wouldn't mind seeing some changes to the back office. Obviously, if the team goes deep - that's not going to happen - but I wouldn't mind seeing Burke, Sommer, and Wayne Thomas replaced. Lets hope there is no changes though - because that will imply a good postseason.
I see the standings like everyone else. I also see the same details that were a major storm warning as they were in seasons past. I did see a change over the last summer which was opposite to the direction of decisions made in previous off-seasons yet the reasons exacerbated the issues that had just occurred rather than addressing them. That is what really frosted me. If I am wrong, I will admit it and it won't take a cup to prove me wrong. There is one other org that did it similarly and won anyway; they paid for it later. I also won't argue the right of the org to ensure a post-season rather than make a real attempt at the cup.

Budget is a strawman. It can help but it is not the be all and end all that some make it. Washington wasn't close to the cap at the outset this season. Nashville keeps making the playoffs with the lowest budget in the league. Carolina and Tampa won with limited budgets. The Devils did not have a high budget when they won their first. I look to the orgs that are successful despite roadblocks that people assume to be issues but really aren't. Orgs like Buffalo, Minnesota (a little bit back) and Nashville are doing right repeatedly despite what some believe to be not the right pieces in place. How many times does proof have to be provided for assumptions to be dropped?

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