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Best Two-Way Player Ever

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Old
02-05-2005, 01:29 AM
  #26
mattihp
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Forsberg was pretty decent (NOT EVEN CLOSE TO GREAT!) in the mid of his career, where he still dared to keep posession of the puck...

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02-05-2005, 01:58 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider
I agree with you on both points. I certainly didn't mean LaFleur and Shutt were defense-first players, but what I did mean is that when they were on the ice, their opponents rarely scored.

LaFleur, Shutt, Robinson, Savard and Lapointe are all on the top 35 on my list. The Canadiens were quite possibly the greatest defensive team ever.
Yeah man I agree and in no means am I discrediting the habs team as I'm a habs fan and a big Lafleur fan but I just felt like pointing it out.

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02-05-2005, 02:15 AM
  #28
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Forsberg and Lehtinen

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Old
02-05-2005, 02:47 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
Forsberg and Lehtinen
Forsberg? You must be joking He hasn't entered the defensive zone much in the last couple of years... He plays hot-potatoe nowadays, to keep him from injury.

And Lehtinen, albeit the best two-way player right now... Does not hold a place in the top-5 of two-way players all time.

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02-05-2005, 12:27 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger
I would agree with Clarke, Trottier and Gainey as the top three. However, another person to think about would be Steve Larmer. Over a 1000 points and one of the smartest players to play the game.
Great call. Larmer and Doug Wilson were always out there killing penalties and stiffling top scorers while gettting chances themselves.

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Old
02-05-2005, 12:33 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Dave Keon
Steve Yzerman
Bryan Trottier
Steve Kasper
Bobby Orr
Peter Forsberg
Bob Gainey (although he should have scored a bit more)
Sergei Fedorov

THESE guys are the greats!

Kasper had some moments defensively (mainly against Gretzky) but I don't think of him as a great TWO WAY player. Rest of the list is good, though I hate Forsberg and have long begrudged Gainey for trying to stiff me and my friend Spaz out of the autographs he promised us when we were eleven. That Trottier was one devil of a player, he could play on my team anytime, plus I once read when I was a kid that he eats bull testicles, which is a-one in my book.

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Old
02-05-2005, 11:10 PM
  #32
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Dave Keon is one of the best. Read a quote of his once that he thought there were only 5 other centers in the league because he was always sent out to shutdown the other teams top center. When he left the Leafs for the WHA he was 14th in league history in both goals and assists, and 15th in points. Not too bad for a checking center!

Stan Mikita also rates as one of the best. 4 Art Ross Trophies for a fine defensive center, and one of the best faceoff men of his time.

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02-05-2005, 11:12 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan
I never even thought of Orr. I was thinking of forwards and never thought of defencemen. I'd say he was the best.

I don't like the plus minus stat that much but he was +124 in one season. That's incredible.
Me too, I was thinking anybody but him but when I saw him name I was like oh yeah...

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02-06-2005, 07:31 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan
Who is the best two-way Player ever?

I think it's Bobby Clarke. He was a great penatly killer and he scored the goals. He also was great on draws. Another player that comes to mind is Bob Gainey. The best defensive player of all time in my opinion. However, he couldn't put up the points like Clarke could.
This is the easiest question to answer that anyone has posted: Ron Francis. There has never been another player like him. He is one of the the top offensive players of all time, 4th overall in points, yet was primarily known for defense. He is in a class by himself.

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02-06-2005, 08:01 AM
  #35
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Guy Lafleur

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Old
02-06-2005, 09:22 AM
  #36
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How about Jere Lehthinen
Mike Modano also comes to my mind.

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Old
02-06-2005, 09:23 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reilly311
Guy Lafleur
LaFleur was a great player, but he wasn't thwe most well rounded player. Great great offensive weapon.

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02-06-2005, 09:24 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnie
This is the easiest question to answer that anyone has posted: Ron Francis. There has never been another player like him. He is one of the the top offensive players of all time, 4th overall in points, yet was primarily known for defense. He is in a class by himself.
Francis has had a very nice career, but he doesn't crack this list. He's not a top 50 all-time player.

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Old
02-06-2005, 09:28 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnie
This is the easiest question to answer that anyone has posted: Ron Francis. There has never been another player like him. He is one of the the top offensive players of all time, 4th overall in points, yet was primarily known for defense. He is in a class by himself.
A class by himself ? Have you guys heard of Gordie Howe ? Remember Mark Howe ? His Dad played a bit and was considered ok.

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02-06-2005, 10:34 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Francis has had a very nice career, but he doesn't crack this list. He's not a top 50 all-time player.
Ah, yet another well reasoned logical post baed on lots of evidence. The #4 scorer of alll time is not in the top 50. Yeah, sure.

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02-06-2005, 10:47 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by arnie
Ah, yet another well reasoned logical post baed on lots of evidence. The #4 scorer of alll time is not in the top 50. Yeah, sure.
Has he ever been a 1st or 2nd team all-star ??
Nope.

Quick list for you: THN's top 50 of all-time done in 1998, who is he better than ???
(BTW I was being kind when saying top 50, closer to 100 than he is to 50)

Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Lemieux, Richard, Harvey, Beliveau, Hull, Sawchuk, Shore, LaFleur, Messier, Plante, Bourque, Morenz, Hall, Mikita, Esposito, Potvin, Bossy, Lindsay, Kelly, Clarke, Robinson, Dryden, Mahovlich, Schmidt, Coffey, Richard, Trottier, Moore, Lalonde, Apps, Durnan, Roy, Conacher, Jagr, Dionne, Malone, Chelios, Clapper, Geoffrion, Horton, Cook, Bucyk, Hainsworth, Perreault, Bently, Park and Kurri.

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Old
02-06-2005, 11:51 AM
  #42
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You guys keep spelling Derek Sanderson's name wrong...I am sorry, but besides Bobby Orr, the best two way player was Derek Sanderson...even though it was brief

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Old
02-06-2005, 12:03 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnie
Ah, yet another well reasoned logical post baed on lots of evidence. The #4 scorer of alll time is not in the top 50. Yeah, sure.
Francis might be #4 in career points, but he's nowhere near the #4 best scorer in history. He has only been in the top 10 scorers in 4 seasons, and 3 of them came while playing with the Art Ross winner. He would be hard pressed to make the top 10 offensive centers of his time.

Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Stastny, Hawerchuk, LaFontaine, Savard, Oates, Dionne, Trottier, Messier, Sakic. Knock 4 names off that list to get him into the top 10 centers of just the last 20+ years. Add in older players and other positions and he's way down the list.

Now about his D, was he ever the best defensive forward on his team in Hartford/Carolina? He hasn't been the #1 PK center since he went to Carolina, and he wasn't for most of his time in Hartford.

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