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Kesler Re-Signs 6-Year, $30M Deal ($5M CAP HIT, NTC after second year)

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Old
03-19-2010, 01:53 PM
  #251
Outside99*
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* There are no cap concerns with a 20 man roster

* I dumped Hordi, Bernier, Alberts. Demitra, Johnson gone

* Signed SOB for 2, Raymond for 3, Wellwood for 1.5 Hansen for 1

* Grabner & Hodgson on the team

Even if you kept Demitra instead of Wellwood, you're still within the cap. You can also upgrade the D (although I can't imagine ANY scenario where the team is improved by not re-signing Mitchell) ie SOB & Bieksa.


AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / * Ryan Kesler ($5.000m)
* Mason Raymond ($3.000m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($2.500m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
Cody Hodgson ($1.696m) / * Kyle Wellwood ($1.500m) / * Jannik Hansen ($1.000m)
Michael Grabner ($0.843m) / Rick Rypien ($0.550m) / * Aaaron Rome ($0.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kevin Bieksa ($3.750m) / * Willie Mitchell ($3.500m)
Sami Salo ($3.500m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)
Christian Ehrhoff ($3.100m) / * Shane O'Brien ($2.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 19; PAYROLL: $55.222m; CAP ROOM: $2.428m BONUSES: $0.850m

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Old
03-19-2010, 01:54 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Where is the discount?

"If we're going to win the Cup, we need guys to take pay cuts. The way the salary cap is now, you really can't get what you're worth now if you want to win. Everybody in this lockerroom knows that." Ryan Kesler - March 18/09

And yet 366 days later...

Such a disappointment... but then being Canucks fans I suppose disappointment is a given.

Talking the talk but not walking the walk.
I can't really tell if you're trying be funny by being so bloody predictable. You are right?

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Old
03-19-2010, 01:55 PM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
* There are no cap concerns with a 20 man roster

* I dumped Hordi, Bernier, Alberts. Demitra, Johnson gone

* Signed SOB for 2, Raymond for 3, Wellwood for 1.5 Hansen for 1

* Grabner & Hodgson on the team

Even if you kept Demitra instead of Wellwood, you're still within the cap. You can also upgrade the D (although I can't imagine ANY scenario where the team is improved by not re-signing Mitchell) ie SOB & Bieksa.


AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / * Ryan Kesler ($5.000m)
* Mason Raymond ($3.000m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($2.500m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
Cody Hodgson ($1.696m) / * Kyle Wellwood ($1.500m) / * Jannik Hansen ($1.000m)
Michael Grabner ($0.843m) / Rick Rypien ($0.550m) / * Aaaron Rome ($0.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kevin Bieksa ($3.750m) / * Willie Mitchell ($3.500m)
Sami Salo ($3.500m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)
Christian Ehrhoff ($3.100m) / * Shane O'Brien ($2.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 19; PAYROLL: $55.222m; CAP ROOM: $2.428m BONUSES: $0.850m
As much as I hate to say it, let Mitchell go if you can get Hamhuis or Volchenkov.


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Old
03-19-2010, 01:56 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by CCF23 View Post
As much as I hate to say it, let Mitchell go if you can get Hamhuis or Volchenkov.

I agree, but not for $5 million. (as you proposed earlier)

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Old
03-19-2010, 01:56 PM
  #255
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hmm....

I'm not overly happy with this. As stated above last year he was saying everyone had to take less in order for the team to be successful. Burrows bought into that and signed for alot less than hes worth. How many 30 goal scorers are making 2 million or less. NOT MANY. I will say that Burrows is just as much an emotional leader on this team as Kessler is.

Fricken Bernier is making 2 million a year. If I was Burrows I don't know what I'd be thinking right now. I know other teams would have paid at least 5 million for Kesler but in my mind hes more of a 4 million dollar player.

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Old
03-19-2010, 01:57 PM
  #256
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Kesler decided to re-sign morning after the Isles game.

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Old
03-19-2010, 01:57 PM
  #257
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ya he didn't take a discount which was very disapointing after the comments he made last year but atleast it is a fair deal for both sides.

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Old
03-19-2010, 01:59 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eesh View Post
I'm not overly happy with this. As stated above last year he was saying everyone had to take less in order for the team to be successful. Burrows bought into that and signed for alot less than hes worth. How many 30 goal scorers are making 2 million or less. NOT MANY. I will say that Burrows is just as much an emotional leader on this team as Kessler is.

Fricken Bernier is making 2 million a year. If I was Burrows I don't know what I'd be thinking right now. I know other teams would have paid at least 5 million for Kesler but in my mind hes more of a 4 million dollar player.

I agree. That's a steep price, considering the term. 4-4.5M over 6 years would be fair, IMO.

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Old
03-19-2010, 02:00 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Mike Brown View Post
When Kesler scores 30, then we can talk about how comparable he is to Linden, until then, Linden was more offensively gifted.
Scoring 30 goals while it was possible to score in the 80's, isn't comparable to scoring 30 when players are maxing out at 60.

The league isn't even close to the same anymore.

Kesler will be a better player than Linden, and I believe he already is. Give Kesler Bure and see what happens.

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Old
03-19-2010, 02:00 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
* There are no cap concerns with a 20 man roster
And the Flames had no cap concerns with a 17 man roster.

No sane GM is going to handcuff their coach like this.

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:39 PM
  #261
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I'm pretty bad at valuing playing but take this for what it's worth. Big question is Raymond's value. Yes he's had a great year but he's been streaky. This has also been his first really successful season so we may be able to get him on a shorter contract at 2-2.5 so he's willing to show he deserves more. Maybe, maybe not.

Realistically, fourth line players aren't that important. Doesn't matter who plays but I don't think any should make over a million. As for Hodgson and Schroeder, I think they could use a year in Manitoba. Hodgson missed almost a full year of development and Schroeder had a sub par season in the NCAA.

FORWARDS

Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / * Ryan Kesler ($5.000m)
Mikael Samuelsson ($2.500m) / * Mason Raymond ($2.500m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
* Kyle Wellwood ($1.250m) / * Jannik Hansen ($1.000m) / * Ryan Johnson ($1.000m)
Michael Grabner ($0.843m) / Darcy Hordichuk ($0.775m) / Rick Rypien ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN

* Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($3.750m)
Sami Salo ($3.500m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)
Christian Ehrhoff ($3.100m) / * Shane O'Brien ($1.750m)
* Aaron Rome ($0.525m)

GOALTENDERS

Roberto Luongo ($5.333m) / * Backup Goalie ($0.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $55.877m; CAP ROOM: $0.923m BONUSES: $0.000m

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:41 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
Scoring 30 goals while it was possible to score in the 80's, isn't comparable to scoring 30 when players are maxing out at 60.

The league isn't even close to the same anymore.

Kesler will be a better player than Linden, and I believe he already is. Give Kesler Bure and see what happens.
Linden didn't play with Bure that often. The most noticeable time was the 94 run, but they were usually on seperate lines.

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:42 PM
  #263
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Such an awesome day

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:47 PM
  #264
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I agree Kesler is a better player than Linden, right now. His value to the team simply can't be measured. I'm a big fan of this contract, I had a bad feeling that Kesler wanted to leave Vancouver and play somewhere in the states. I'm glad that isn't the case. Going forward, with Henrik, Kesler and Hodgson at centre, the Canucks are better up the middle than at any other point in club history. It bodes very well for the future.

Do the Canucks have the best salary structure in the NHL? Gillis' business acumen is doing wonders for this team.

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:48 PM
  #265
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I'm not sure where this he "didn't take a paycut" business is coming from. He was asking $5.5, he settled on $5. That's a $500k per season cut, or $3m over the course of the contract as another user pointed out.

Saying, as he did, that everyone needs to take paycuts doesn't mean any 1 person is a sacrificial lamb that leaves multiple millions per year on the table. It is exactly this: the Sedins, Luongo, Burrows and now Kesler leaving a bit left on the table. (The Twins left $400K per year each, Luongo dropped his cap hit by more than a million per season, no one knows what Burrows' asking price was but you can bet he left something on the table, and now Kesler has left $500k on the table per season).

Every member of the core of this team has bought in to this philosophy and everyone has taken a slight dip in pay(again, I think the word discount gives people images of multiple millions) to leave some extra cap space.

Pretend the Twins had insisted on $6.5, that Lui doesn't drop his cap hit from $6.75 to $5.33, that Kesler insists on $5.5 instead of $5. By them all dropping their salaries, they have created $2.72m in cap space that just would not be there if they had stuck to their guns. That's pretty big.

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:48 PM
  #266
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This made my day, what a ****ing deal.

Kesler would get 6mil + offer sheet EASILY in the offseason.

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:50 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by shutupgrapes View Post
I agree Kesler is a better player than Linden, right now.
Not quite yet (re: post-season).

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:52 PM
  #268
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Well, I'm glad he's locked up for 6 years. I just wish we had done so last offseason and given him around 3.75-4.25M a year.

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:56 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I'm not sure where this he "didn't take a paycut" business is coming from. He was asking $5.5, he settled on $5. That's a $500k per season cut, or $3m over the course of the contract as another user pointed out.
So if he'd asked for 10 million and then settled on 9, would you still consider it a pay cut?

Who cares what he was asking for? The question is, what is market value for a player like him, and did he take less than that? I'd say barely, if at all.

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:56 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I'm not sure where this he "didn't take a paycut" business is coming from. He was asking $5.5, he settled on $5. That's a $500k per season cut, or $3m over the course of the contract as another user pointed out.

Saying, as he did, that everyone needs to take paycuts doesn't mean any 1 person is a sacrificial lamb that leaves multiple millions per year on the table. It is exactly this: the Sedins, Luongo, Burrows and now Kesler leaving a bit left on the table. (The Twins left $400K per year each, Luongo dropped his cap hit by more than a million per season, no one knows what Burrows' asking price was but you can bet he left something on the table, and now Kesler has left $500k on the table per season).

Every member of the core of this team has bought in to this philosophy and everyone has taken a slight dip in pay(again, I think the word discount gives people images of multiple millions) to leave some extra cap space.

Pretend the Twins had insisted on $6.5, that Lui doesn't drop his cap hit from $6.75 to $5.33, that Kesler insists on $5.5 instead of $5. By them all dropping their salaries, they have created $2.72m in cap space that just would not be there if they had stuck to their guns. That's pretty big.
Bingo.

Kesler could have waiting for restricted free agency this year, and either opted for arbitration (where he easily could have gotten a 'Richards-style' ruling) or simply fielded offer sheets (a $6 million per offer sheet still wasn't out of the question).

I'd say you're right thinking he left around $500,000 on the table, especially considering Richards $5.75 million per year deal.

Burrows probably left closer to $800,000 - $1,000,000 on the table and the Sedins and Luongo are as you laid out above.

Just watch what Plekanec gets this year, and Habs fans turn green with envy over Kesler's cap hit.

It's hilarious...almost like posters expected Kesler to cut his contract demands by $2+ million per year over the life of the contract.

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:58 PM
  #271
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Well Hodgson for one...I don't know how it can be assumed that he'll achieve his full bonus
The problem next year is that the bonus cushion deferral disappears because the CBA is expiring so if Hodgson (or any other player with performance bonuses) make the team you have to add those bonuses to the cap hit.

This issue is discussed in this thread:
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=694983

For next year Hodgson has a bonus packages worth $850,000, Shirokov has $500,000 package and Evan Oberg has a $1.1375 million bonus package. I assume that Schroeder probably has a bonus package similar to Hodgson.

You have to account for the bonuses on calculating your allowable daily cap hit until such time as they become impossible to earn.

Mind you the Canucks are not as hamstrung as the Leafs who will have to account for $7-8 million in bonuses next season IIRC unless the NHLPA re-ups an extra season in time. Two seasons ago the NHLPA delayed the announcement and there was no bonus cushion for that year.

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Old
03-19-2010, 05:58 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Where is the discount?

"If we're going to win the Cup, we need guys to take pay cuts. The way the salary cap is now, you really can't get what you're worth now if you want to win. Everybody in this lockerroom knows that." Ryan Kesler - March 18/09

And yet 366 days later...

Such a disappointment... but then being Canucks fans I suppose disappointment is a given.

Talking the talk but not walking the walk.
I'll file this one in the Wetcoaster hall of fame along with

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
He has demonstrated no NHL level offensive skills - slow release, poor shot, unable to consistently give and receive a pass at speed, etc.

His "hockey sense" is also not NHL level and he is often out of position defensively. He does not seem to understand how to cut down passing lanes and take time and space away from opposing players. He has to try to compensate with his speed which is top-notch but the NHL is littered with failed prospects who could skate like the wind and do little else.

You can teach defense but I am not sure that Kesler has the ability to be even an average NHL defensive forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
I do not think Kesler has the skills or hockey sense to be aTop Six forward nor even a top flight third liner. He has yet to show any "defensive smarts" IMHO and has to rely on his speed to bail him out of bad decisions.

At $1.9 million in a capped NHL on a cap-strapped team he is a waste of space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
I agree with your assessment in large part.

However [Richard] Park at least showed an offensive touch in junior (better than a point a game in his last two seasons) and one season in the AHL (1998-99) he potted 41 goals in 75 games.

Kesler has never even demonstrated that level of offensive skill. He should have not come out of Ohio State early.
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I have not been much impressed with Kesler from day one (no offensive skills, stone hands, a shot that would not break a pane of glass, poor judgment, no hockey sense but a GREAT skater who goes nowhere fast) and I took a fair amount of shots for my opinion.

Hands up all those who have now come over to the dark side.
Hands up? Anyone?


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Old
03-19-2010, 05:59 PM
  #273
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$5M is in line - Sedins took about $1M than they could've gotten on the open market, and Kesler did the same as there is no doubt at all someone would offer him $6M/yr if he hit the open market. Whether that's enough of a discount for everyone's liking, I can't say, but he clearly has given one, and he's done it for the prime years of his career.

This officially marks the New Core era - here's hoping they accomplish more than the WCE core.

 
Old
03-19-2010, 06:00 PM
  #274
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It's easy to forget too that Kesler was asking for 5.5 BEFORE the Olympics. I know he wasn't playing for the Canucks there, but after his great performance in that world class tourny he increased his value in the NHL at least 500k/year. No doubt about it. That makes his discount about 1million/year.
We all know he'd get at least that much more going somewhere else. Therefore=discount.

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Old
03-19-2010, 06:00 PM
  #275
greengiant91
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Krajicek View Post
Wetcoaster is right. 5 million for a guy with a shot so weak it couldn't even break a pane of glass? 5 million for Ryan "Hands of Stone" Kesler? And for him to say something to the media, and then not exactly follow through with what he said, but still kind of follow through, just not quite to the extent we were lead to believe? DISGUSTING. This is a garbage contract for a player who will never hit 20 goals at the NHL level.
I think he has hit 20!
SKATERS: GP G
H. Sedin 71 28 66
D. Sedin 53 19 50
R. Kesler 71 21 45
A. Burrows 71 32

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