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Goalie question for 2010-2011

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Old
03-20-2010, 07:05 PM
  #51
FanHabtic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I have mentioned from a Flyers standpoint that Coburn/Parent are the only young, sizable NHL-ready assets the Flyers could realistically part with. That doesn't mean I have said it makes sense for the Canadiens. I stand by my claim that Coburn and Price likely have similar value if not a little favored toward Coburn. Then again, as I have often pointed out, market value is not a stagnant being. It's determined by individual teams in individual realities, not a collective.
And you lecture me on reality?

But whatever, you are entitled to your opinion.

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03-20-2010, 07:21 PM
  #52
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brian boucher will be the backup and play 20-30 games.. i see homer keeping the roster mostly intact honestly which may preclude alot of trades from going down. the rathje deal coming off also opens things up for the deadline placing a little more value on in-season capspace. so cheap is the number one quality theyll be looking for.

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Old
03-20-2010, 07:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic
I just don't understand how after it was spelled out that the Habs can't take on another d-man like Coburn that Flyers fans then immediately follow up with how about Coburn + prospect for Price?
Sorry, I started typing out my post, had to go away from the computer and then finished up without checking what had been posted since. My bad.

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Old
03-20-2010, 08:00 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Sorry, I started typing out my post, had to go away from the computer and then finished up without checking what had been posted since. My bad.
No worries. lol

I'm so sick of the Price/Halak trade threads that i just wish that Gauthier trades one of them to a Western Conference team to be done with this. What's worse than all the trade threads is Habs fans internally fighting over which one should be the starter.

I need closure!

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Old
03-20-2010, 11:53 PM
  #55
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
And you lecture me on reality?

But whatever, you are entitled to your opinion.
My intentions here are as nice as possible: You're getting to be like that kid who puts his finger a centimeter away from your face and says, "I'm not touching you" when the other person gets upset.

You may not physically be poking anyone's face, but you sure as hell are annoying. If you want to hop all over what Shafer or anyone else in particular has to say keep it on the main boards.

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Old
03-21-2010, 08:09 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
My intentions here are as nice as possible: You're getting to be like that kid who puts his finger a centimeter away from your face and says, "I'm not touching you" when the other person gets upset.

You may not physically be poking anyone's face, but you sure as hell are annoying. If you want to hop all over what Shafer or anyone else in particular has to say keep it on the main boards.
Your post is pointless. Keep to the topic at hand or otherwise hold your peace... if you can!

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Old
03-21-2010, 08:27 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Your post is pointless. Keep to the topic at hand or otherwise hold your peace... if you can!
Don't come in the Flyers boards if you're looking for a Flyers fan to debate with or to call out one of the Flyers fans. There's already like 50 threads a day about this in the main boards.

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Old
03-21-2010, 08:47 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JCannon18 View Post
Don't come in the Flyers boards if you're looking for a Flyers fan to debate with or to call out one of the Flyers fans. There's already like 50 threads a day about this in the main boards.
Have you even read this thread? I suggest you go back and read where Shafer and I agree that the Flyers do not have the assets they are willing to part with to turn a trade of Price/Halak. Habs do not need defense - we have too many under contract. We can't take a high-priced forward as we are trying to re-sign Plekanec. Flyers don't have the picks required if the Habs were to go that route. Its just a non-starter. So i suggest you re-read the thread then comment. Otherwise, it appears you are just looking to pick a fight where there is no fight to be picked!

I do wish you guys luck in your quest to find a young starting goaltender with a high ceiling without having to give up much in return.

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Old
03-21-2010, 08:51 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Have you even read this thread? I suggest you go back and read where Shafer and I agree that the Flyers do not have the assets they are willing to part with to turn a trade of Price/Halak. Habs do not need defense - we have too many under contract. We can't take a high-priced forward as we are trying to re-sign Plekanec. Flyers don't have the picks required if the Habs were to go that route. Its just a non-starter. So i suggest you re-read the thread then comment. Otherwise, it appears you are just looking to pick a fight where there is no fight to be picked!
I do agree about the Habs likely having no interests in what the Flyers have available, but try not to alienate the locals. You'll only get a whole lot of Flyers fans angry at you.

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Old
03-21-2010, 08:56 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I do agree about the Habs likely having no interests in what the Flyers have available, but try not to alienate the locals. You'll only get a whole lot of Flyers fans angry at you.
Not trying to alienate anyone. I disagreed with your assessment of value. Is that a cardinal sin in here. If Flyers fans can't accept an opposing view point in their own forum then WTF? Bottom line is that for the first time ever we found common ground. I felt a tear well up when we were able to agree. I'm verklempt as i type this!

(all kidding aside i may disagree with you vehemently on goaltender value as do many of your fellow fans but its not such a major thing that we can't talk hockey in here is it?)

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Old
03-21-2010, 08:58 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by JCannon18 View Post
Don't come in the Flyers boards if you're looking for a Flyers fan to debate with or to call out one of the Flyers fans. There's already like 50 threads a day about this in the main boards.
Flyers forums. If you'd like to keep this pointless debate going theres plenty of other places.

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Old
03-21-2010, 10:01 AM
  #62
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Ugh...the goalie question causes the biggest headache. It became obvious the Flyers want to win now the second Homer pulled off the Pronger deal, but the core of this team heading forward is Richards, Carter, Giroux, and JVR so you'd think with those 4 players being 25 and under the Flyers would look to get a Goalie to grow with them, but I don't think Homer will do that. He'll likely try to get someone like Tim Thomas or Vokoun because Pronger was brought here to win a cup within the next 4 years or so, and with Thomas/Vokoun we likely could go all the way, however once Pronger and Thomas/Vokoun are gone we're going to be left holding our dick in our hand because I don't see this team drafting or finding a franchise goalie anytime soon, they just don't have the scouts.

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Old
03-21-2010, 10:17 AM
  #63
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The only way the trade would work is ship either Hartnell/Briere and one of Coburn/Carle/Parent for Hamrlik and either Price/Halak.

Not likely though.

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Old
03-21-2010, 11:21 AM
  #64
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We have about $4.5MM for both goaltenders using the following contracts and estimates as well as a stagnant cap ($56.8MM).

13 Forwards

Daniel Briere ($6,500,000)
Mike Richards ($5,750,000)
Simon Gagne ($5,250,000)
Jeff Carter ($5,000,000)
Scott Hartnell ($4,200,000)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1,654,166)
Ian Laperriere ($1,166,666)
Jon Kalinski ($875,000)
Claude Giroux ($821,666)
Ville Leino ($800,000)
Blair Betts ($700,000)

Estimates
Daniel Carcillo ($1,000,000)
Darroll Powe ($700,000)

7 Defensemen

Kimmo Timonen ($6,333,333)
Chris Pronger ($4,921,428)
Matt Carle ($3,437,500)
Oskars Bartulis ($600,000)

Estimates
Braydon Coburn ($1,500,000)
Ryan Parent ($1,000,000)
Lukas Krajicek ($800,000)

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Old
03-21-2010, 01:49 PM
  #65
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To answer the original poster, I think the Flyers best option is to go for a young goalie with upside. I prefer Price or Halak to Harding or Schneider because they are more established. Price is my preference because I think he has the highest upside, but he is likely going to cost the most to acquire.

If the Flyers end up with Harding or Schneider I'd want a solid backup that could start 30-40 games if need be. I think a Harding/Leighton tandem as some suggested is too risky.

Personally I think Harding is completely overrated. Yeah, he's been stuck behind Backstrom, but his stats have been nothing to write home about since becoming a full time backup. Last year was his only good season statistically, but he only started 11 games.

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Old
03-21-2010, 02:37 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post

Personally I think Harding is completely overrated. Yeah, he's been stuck behind Backstrom, but his stats have been nothing to write home about since becoming a full time backup. Last year was his only good season statistically, but he only started 11 games.
He is difficult to judge, because he's only started 63 NHL games in his entire life. But in those games he has a .916 and 4 shutouts, not bad. I feel like he'd be a fully capable starter in the league, he just needs to be given the opportunity by someone other than Minnesota. I wouldn't mind the Flyers being the team to give him his chance.

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Old
03-21-2010, 02:56 PM
  #67
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He is difficult to judge, because he's only started 63 NHL games in his entire life. But in those games he has a .916 and 4 shutouts, not bad. I feel like he'd be a fully capable starter in the league, he just needs to be given the opportunity by someone other than Minnesota. I wouldn't mind the Flyers being the team to give him his chance.
It's not bad, but I think his stats are a bit inflated because his best statistical seasons are where he started few games. In the seasons where he receives more regular starts his stats aren't anything special. His GAA is close to three and save percentage under .910. He might be a starter in this league, but he seems like someone that's probably not going to be any better than of all of the average goalies that have passed through recently. Though you are right it's difficult to judge.

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:13 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
To answer the original poster, I think the Flyers best option is to go for a young goalie with upside. I prefer Price or Halak to Harding or Schneider because they are more established. Price is my preference because I think he has the highest upside, but he is likely going to cost the most to acquire.

If the Flyers end up with Harding or Schneider I'd want a solid backup that could start 30-40 games if need be. I think a Harding/Leighton tandem as some suggested is too risky.

Personally I think Harding is completely overrated. Yeah, he's been stuck behind Backstrom, but his stats have been nothing to write home about since becoming a full time backup. Last year was his only good season statistically, but he only started 11 games.
Leighton was a joke before coming to Philadelphia. Look at what a good team did for him.

I'm not saying that Leighton is a similar case to Harding, but Harding definitely has more skill than Leighton. I'd give him a shot.

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:15 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
It's not bad, but I think his stats are a bit inflated because his best statistical seasons are where he started few games. In the seasons where he receives more regular starts his stats aren't anything special. His GAA is close to three and save percentage under .910. He might be a starter in this league, but he seems like someone that's probably not going to be any better than of all of the average goalies that have passed through recently. Though you are right it's difficult to judge.
I feel this is why it's best to stay away from Harding. It's why I'd prefer someone like Price, because his floor is pretty much already known and it won't be any worse than what's been in between the pipes the last few years (which has been serviceable). If he can keep pushing his ceiling, even better.

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03-21-2010, 03:20 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I have mentioned from a Flyers standpoint that Coburn/Parent are the only young, sizable NHL-ready assets the Flyers could realistically part with. That doesn't mean I have said it makes sense for the Canadiens. I stand by my claim that Coburn and Price likely have similar value if not a little favored toward Coburn. Then again, as I have often pointed out, market value is not a stagnant being. It's determined by individual teams in individual realities, not a collective.
You know, I've heard a lot of shocking assertions since I joined here.

- The Drozdetsky hype.
- The Nitty > Biron argument.
- The Keep Stevens Brigade
- The "JVR sucks" argument from people that had never seen him play.

But this one ranks up there in the pantheon.

Coburn is a mildly astonishing -8 despite playing with Kimmo/Parent for most of the year and is one of the worst PP d-men who receives PP time, and has been regressing for 2 years but apparently he's worth more than one of the top goalie prospects in the league.

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:24 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Coburn is a mildly astonishing -8 despite playing with Kimmo/Parent for most of the year and is one of the worst PP d-men who receives PP time, and has been regressing for 2 years but apparently he's worth more than one of the top goalie prospects in the league.
While I don't necessarily agree with Coburn being worth more than Price I feel the biggest argument to be made in favor of it is projectability, simply because goalie can be so toxic. Coburn can hack it in the top 4...maybe not all that great all the time, but he can still do it, and it's probably easier to see, gauge, and value that than a goalie in these circumstances.

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:30 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
You know, I've heard a lot of shocking assertions since I joined here.

- The Drozdetsky hype.
- The Nitty > Biron argument.
- The Keep Stevens Brigade
- The "JVR sucks" argument from people that had never seen him play.
Though I disagree with all the above other than the JVR sucks one, you can pencil me in for:

- Goaltending is overrated.
- Holmgren is a good GM.
- Our prospect pool is not terrible.
- A struggling young defense with top pairing potential (Coburn) is worth more than a struggling young goaltender with starter potential (Price).

I'm here to shred your fantasies and abolish your misconceptions of reality. Get used to it.

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:39 PM
  #73
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I have to believe that Holmgren and company have finally come to the conclusion that they just can't continue with this carousel of goaltending that the team has gone through. Honestly, I think they're going to deal at the draft for a goaltender and I also think they're prepared to bite the bullet and move a guy like Giroux if it means acquiring a goaltender who can be the starter for the next 10 to 15 years. Do I like the idea of moving a guy like Giroux, who will probably be a PPG scorer or better for at least 10 seasons? No, not at all. However the days of continuing to fill the most critical position with bargain bin add ins and second chance reclamation projects needs to come to an end. It's time this franchise get serious about getting a top flight goaltender for once and for all.

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:42 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I have to believe that Holmgren and company have finally come to the conclusion that they just can't continue with this carousel of goaltending that the team has gone through. Honestly, I think they're going to deal at the draft for a goaltender and I also think they're prepared to bite the bullet and move a guy like Giroux if it means acquiring a goaltender who can be the starter for the next 10 to 15 years. Do I like the idea of moving a guy like Giroux, who will probably be a PPG scorer or better for at least 10 seasons? No, not at all. However the days of continuing to fill the most critical position with bargain bin add ins and second chance reclamation projects needs to come to an end. It's time this franchise get serious about getting a top flight goaltender for once and for all.
That day is the day I jump off of Holmgren's supporters list.

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:48 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Though I disagree with all the above other than the JVR sucks one, you can pencil me in for:

- Goaltending is overrated.
- Holmgren is a good GM.
- Our prospect pool is not terrible.
- A struggling young defense with top pairing potential (Coburn) is worth more than a struggling young goaltender with starter potential (Price).

I'm here to shred your fantasies and abolish your misconceptions of reality. Get used to it.
The funny thing is that the organization has felt the same way about goaltending for most of the last 35 years. So in a way, I don't really need to prove you wrong because our record of failure already does that for me.

As for Coburn having top pairing potential.

.....err.....

We're all homers on here to an extent, but that's one of the more homeristic player assessments I've ever seen.

EDIT: Also, Price is struggling with an above-average save percentage?

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