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Rank The Sharks: Who Should Stay Addition!

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Old
03-18-2010, 09:54 PM
  #51
OrrNumber4
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
We're rebuilding in that scenario. Boyle is a tradable asset that will have a higher return. If we are rebuilding, Demers can be the new puck-moving forward. Or someone younger we might be in return for Boyle.

If we do a rebuild, I want a rebuild. Not the piddly little "tweaking" DW is wont to do. Keep the good young guys, trade the expensive older guys, and try to DEVELOP a team. Development is one of my major beefs with Sommer specifically, and DW in general. The Sharks have generally done a terrible job in developing their players, with a few exceptions.
If you want to do that, you must know that you just can't throw a team comprised of youngsters out there and expect them to succeed. Boyle would be an excellent mentor.

Honestly, getting rid of Thornton and Nabokov would in intself be a rebuild. Those moves wouldn't be tweaks. A rebuild on the scale you are taking aobut would require jettisoning Thornton, Nabokov, Marleau, Heatley, Clowe, Murray (he is 30 years old!), Boyle, Malhotra, Nichol, etc.

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Old
03-18-2010, 09:58 PM
  #52
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
To be fair, Getzlaf developed into the player he is today because Anaheim is great at working with prospects who need to work on their skating.

Hennessey wasn't a great pick, but Carle's development was just mishandled. Talent-wise, I'd say he was equal to or better than Weber.

The '05 draft really grinds my gears though. Setoguchi wasn't a terrible pick, but the fact that Burke/the draft staff remarked that they thought Kopitar was overrated shows both a serious lack of professionalism and a serious lack of ability to correctly judge a player. I have always found it strange that San Jose doesn't have more scouts in Europe. They have tons of scouts in NA, and spend a lot of money on other things; one would guess they are simply not interested in European draftees.
In terms of skating, Anaheim being great is not an excuse for me. If an org is that much better it shouldn't be hard to figure the secret and do the same for the Sharks. Someone is dropping the ball. There have certainly have been recent Sharks who could have benefited from more work on skating.

I don't agree on Carle vs. Weber although I don't think Carle is as bad as some would have had him.

I agree on Europe vs NA. IMO, it is foolish for an org to restrict itself to NA and not put things in place that encourage European prospects. North America is so picked over and well scouted that it makes finding diamonds in the rough extremely difficult. Much easier to find the diamonds in Europe. However to do that, an org has to back it up by catering to their Euro prospects by going the extra mile in helping them adapt to the NA culture and have the org culture adapt to the Europeans. The orgs that do well with Euro prospects stand out like sore thumbs; it is strongly reflected in the numbers.

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Old
03-18-2010, 09:59 PM
  #53
Kitten Mittons
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WE NEED SWEDES!!!

Repeat after me: WE NEED SWEDES!!!!

PS: Swedes that don't break their legs because of extreme sports like one of our morons in SEL right now.

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Old
03-18-2010, 10:27 PM
  #54
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Let's be reality. This team won't rebuild until Thornton's contract is done at the earliest. Until then, they'll just retool, if anything. They'll keep their big four free agents, keep guys like Malhotra, Nichol, and Ortmeyer. Someone will get dumped for cap purposes. They will probably get nobody to replace Blake from outside and use Demers. They'll probably use Joslin to play the #6 spot. They'll probably use someone like McGinn or Couture to replace a forward who gets dumped.

Don't expect big changes really.

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Old
03-18-2010, 10:56 PM
  #55
Vaasa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
If you want to do that, you must know that you just can't throw a team comprised of youngsters out there and expect them to succeed. Boyle would be an excellent mentor.

Honestly, getting rid of Thornton and Nabokov would in intself be a rebuild. Those moves wouldn't be tweaks. A rebuild on the scale you are taking aobut would require jettisoning Thornton, Nabokov, Marleau, Heatley, Clowe, Murray (he is 30 years old!), Boyle, Malhotra, Nichol, etc.
If you read my list, you would see I was keeping Marleau, and Murray, and even Nichol. If the Sharks do a rebuild, Boyle is expendable. Murray can stay a year or 2 more possibly until some of the younger guys are ready. And if you want a mentor, get cheap ones. You don't need a nearly $7 million mentor on a team that is not going to compete for the Cup, and that will have to compete just to make the playoffs. I'm not expecting a young team to succeed right off the bat. I'm expecting some struggles. But struggle and growth together is one of the things that helps build a team and build attitudes.

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Old
03-18-2010, 11:48 PM
  #56
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If we get rid of Yawney (**YAWN**) we should bring in a guy like Keenan. I would love to see a gritty guy like Iron Mike get Manny, Nichol, Brad, and Jed play a rough banging game. It's a type of game we need to play. SURE we need help but Keenan would also be a good choice to get our guys mentally stronger. I'm sorry but I'm getting really sick of TM talking about playing a "Full 60 minute game." or a "Complete game" No S**t. I hate hearing that. Just tell us that they sucked. I miss coaches like Jim Mora for the Colts. "Playoffs? You wanna talk about playoffs? I just hope we can win the next game.....(Sounds like us right now!!!!)

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Old
03-19-2010, 12:11 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mhoogasian94123 View Post
If we get rid of Yawney (**YAWN**) we should bring in a guy like Keenan. I would love to see a gritty guy like Iron Mike get Manny, Nichol, Brad, and Jed play a rough banging game. It's a type of game we need to play. SURE we need help but Keenan would also be a good choice to get our guys mentally stronger. I'm sorry but I'm getting really sick of TM talking about playing a "Full 60 minute game." or a "Complete game" No S**t. I hate hearing that. Just tell us that they sucked. I miss coaches like Jim Mora for the Colts. "Playoffs? You wanna talk about playoffs? I just hope we can win the next game.....(Sounds like us right now!!!!)
Keenan is for head coach only. He is sometimes effective for pure vet teams and has a short shelf life (like Tortorella). He is not a defensive coach. The aftermath of the short shelf life is not something I would want to see. It may make fans feel better in the short run, but . . .

BTW, the emphasis on bangin' is great when a team is out of the playoffs. Good sales pitch for orgs that aren't good enough; it's sort of ironic on the assumptions that bangin' is the issue. Not bangin'; change the adjective to intensity which is the issue. Bangin' is not the sort of descriptor I want if the Sharks want to aspire to the cup. I hear that word from the org and I know that they know that they don't have a chance. If I hear intensity, I would have far more hope.

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Old
03-19-2010, 12:22 AM
  #58
one2gamble
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I havent seen intensity in this half of the decade


Last edited by one2gamble: 03-19-2010 at 11:59 AM.
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Old
03-19-2010, 11:44 AM
  #59
sjshrky27
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no matter what happens the rest of the season, SC or complete failure, there will be a complete new look for the sharks next season.

Its gonna be a fire sale! Enjoy the playoffs, first round exit and all...Cause the Sharks wont even be close to them next season.

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Old
03-19-2010, 01:37 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Let's be reality. This team won't rebuild until Thornton's contract is done at the earliest. Until then, they'll just retool, if anything. They'll keep their big four free agents, keep guys like Malhotra, Nichol, and Ortmeyer. Someone will get dumped for cap purposes. They will probably get nobody to replace Blake from outside and use Demers. They'll probably use Joslin to play the #6 spot. They'll probably use someone like McGinn or Couture to replace a forward who gets dumped.

Don't expect big changes really.

I like this post, just because its probably what will happen. It does show what opportunity there is to sign some UFA's though, you'll have at least Blakes 3.5 and Nabby's 5.5? off the books if not more, which opens up all kinds of possibilities to build real depth. On a side note, McLellen has disappointed me and IMO has turned into a Wilson type clone who just ruins young players, and puts all his faith in the top line line.

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Old
03-20-2010, 01:14 AM
  #61
OrrNumber4
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
In terms of skating, Anaheim being great is not an excuse for me. If an org is that much better it shouldn't be hard to figure the secret and do the same for the Sharks. Someone is dropping the ball. There have certainly have been recent Sharks who could have benefited from more work on skating.
That is like a Ducks fans saying "why is San Jose's goaltending development so good? It shouldn't be hard to figure out the secret. Someone is dropping the ball."

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Old
03-20-2010, 01:22 AM
  #62
TheDanceOfMaternity
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I honestly think whoever sucks in the playoffs is on their way out and whoever plays well is staying, trade or UFA, whatever. Noone here is untouchable.

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Old
03-20-2010, 01:25 AM
  #63
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
That is like a Ducks fans saying "why is San Jose's goaltending development so good? It shouldn't be hard to figure out the secret. Someone is dropping the ball."
Not the same. There are a very limited number of goaltending coaches, much less good ones. Skating is taught in so many different places that it shouldn't be nearly as hard to figure out. I don't accept that as an reasonable analogy. I have been involved with people who coach basic athletic skills and some advanced to a very high level. It was explained to me rather well by those people. The coaches who can figure the differences between improving what is there and starting from scratch have to be numerous enough on the skating side. From what you describe, Anaheim has the benefit of someone who can start from scratch.

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Old
03-20-2010, 01:34 AM
  #64
OrrNumber4
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Not the same. There are a very limited number of goaltending coaches, much less good ones. Skating is taught in so many different places that it shouldn't be nearly as hard to figure out. I don't accept that as an reasonable analogy. I have been involved with people who coach basic athletic skills and some advanced to a very high level. It was explained to me rather well by those people. The coaches who can figure the differences between improving what is there and starting from scratch have to be numerous enough on the skating side. From what you describe, Anaheim has the benefit of someone who can start from scratch.
Why would goaltending coaching be so specialized but skating coaching not be so?

Also, every field has its savant...maybe that is the case. All I see is Anaheim having a good track record with poor-skating prospects...

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Old
03-20-2010, 01:49 AM
  #65
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Why would goaltending coaching be so specialized but skating coaching not be so?

Also, every field has its savant...maybe that is the case. All I see is Anaheim having a good track record with poor-skating prospects...
Because there aren't enough people in goaltending to take apart the kinesiology like other pursuits. Eventually, it will happen as they are working on it in Finland. Some stuff is already available. The understanding of the kinesiology is what gets to the breakdown. In terms of savants, you have a Bell curve on coaching just like any other profession. With the large numbers in skating, finding someone in the top 1% of a field with more than 30,000 is going to be a lot easier than finding someone in the top 1% of a field of 400 to 500. The reason people think it is savants is that there haven't been enough that go at the kinesiology. When some group breaks down the kinesiology, it is in the best interest of the coaches to understand the research that has been done and learn how to apply it. The savants of which you speak are the people who don't need the research because they understand it intuitively. I am sure the kinesiology has been broken down for skating.

I agree about Anaheim as Ryan was another who didn't do so well at first. He can fly now.

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Old
03-21-2010, 09:23 PM
  #66
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Pavelski
Marleau
Boyle
Demers
Clowe
Setoguchi
Nichol
Vlasic
Malhotra
Heatley
McGinn
Murray
Ortmeyer
Mitchell
Greiss
McLellan
Leach
Wallin
Staubitz
Blake
Nabokov
Thornton
Doug Wilson

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