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Old
03-22-2010, 02:28 AM
  #26
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Timzey,

Where exactly in Northern California are you at? Are you looking for just a building, are you looking for ice? Or just roller?

Contacting USA Hockey is a start, but they are concentrated mostly on ice, but let me know what you are looking for, I used to have some contacts at USA Hockey and CAHA, which is the state body for USA hockey,

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03-22-2010, 07:33 AM
  #27
Canadiens1958
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A Few Points.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timzey View Post
well we are a non profit so its not a business. but yes we are trying to rent a big enough building to house our rink and run leagues out of. we figure between hockey, roller derby (pretty big here) indoor soccer, and whatever else, we will be able to pay rent for the building and operating costs. $3000 a month would be a good estimate at how much we can afford, unfortunately most places cost more then that, and the ones that don't have had various other issues, zoning bering the primary one.
Have over thirty years experience with ice hockey non-profit organizations mainly from another perspective - keeping programs going as an area loses its hockey playing population.

A few points.

A non-profit HAS to be run like a business with the surplus monies dedicated to the cause.

You have to build synergies with other sports or youth activities that will allow you to offset certain costs while creating a greater volunteer and interest base. Simply trying to keep an ice hockey program going for 100-150 youngsters is harder to do than keeping an arena program going for 400 youngsters split amongst ice hockey, figure skating, speed skating, etc. Political reality being that 400 youngster ripple down to more votes than 100. In your case you have to look at various activities - skate boarding(getting kids of the street) etc, that could benefit from a multi purpose facility.

Teaching. You have to support the future of your efforts with appropriate teaching programs. In the example above the efforts to keep a hockey, figure skating, speed skating arena program going cannot be viewed as short term. You have to support it with a long term "learn to skate" program where 3-5 year old - pre - schoolers
learn to skate. Added bonus is parental involvement. Apply this to your situation.

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03-22-2010, 12:06 PM
  #28
colombianbrew
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A pre-fab building is probably your best best. Often you can get old aircraft hangers for a decent price. Also, check out http://www.sprung.com/en/index.php. I know people who have dealt with them and have been very happy, they can even help you find used structures I think.

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Old
03-22-2010, 12:11 PM
  #29
Timzey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Timzey,

Where exactly in Northern California are you at? Are you looking for just a building, are you looking for ice? Or just roller?

Contacting USA Hockey is a start, but they are concentrated mostly on ice, but let me know what you are looking for, I used to have some contacts at USA Hockey and CAHA, which is the state body for USA hockey,
we are in the eureka/arcata area, about 250 miles north of san fran, and right on the coast. redwood forest area. not a huge population here, probably around 100k people total. We are just looking for a building to house the roller hockey rink we already purchased (used)

we have been in contact with USA inline hockey, we were affiliated with them at one time, and we were getting our insurance through them, another board member dealt with them more then me, so I am not sure if grants were ever discussed. Basically what we need is a building, we have everything else to get started.

Getting the building has been a nightmare, as we haven't received the public support we thought we would from the local government/city council, parks and rec, etc... we have reached out to local businesses to try and raise funds, and while they are supportive, most don't want to make donations until we can give them something in return (advertising space at our rink, or sponsorship of youth teams)

not sure if USA hockey has grants or funding for upstart hockey programs in areas where they don't exist, but that is something I plan on finding out.

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03-22-2010, 12:27 PM
  #30
Timzey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Have over thirty years experience with ice hockey non-profit organizations mainly from another perspective - keeping programs going as an area loses its hockey playing population.

A few points.

A non-profit HAS to be run like a business with the surplus monies dedicated to the cause.

You have to build synergies with other sports or youth activities that will allow you to offset certain costs while creating a greater volunteer and interest base. Simply trying to keep an ice hockey program going for 100-150 youngsters is harder to do than keeping an arena program going for 400 youngsters split amongst ice hockey, figure skating, speed skating, etc. Political reality being that 400 youngster ripple down to more votes than 100. In your case you have to look at various activities - skate boarding(getting kids of the street) etc, that could benefit from a multi purpose facility.

Teaching. You have to support the future of your efforts with appropriate teaching programs. In the example above the efforts to keep a hockey, figure skating, speed skating arena program going cannot be viewed as short term. You have to support it with a long term "learn to skate" program where 3-5 year old - pre - schoolers
learn to skate. Added bonus is parental involvement. Apply this to your situation.
thanks, for your input. We do plan on running it like a business once it is up and going. We also plan on making it a multi-sport rink like you suggest, it is for roller hockey, so we can have any number of other uses. We are in a very wet climate, so an indoor facility that people could play outdoor sports in during the rainy months is something we are going to rely on.

Teaching is something we haven't spoken about, and something that I do agree will help keep things moving in the right direction. We were planning on having a beginners clinic, but I think regular skating lessons would be a great idea too. Anything that gets the parents involved too, is going to help, we need to convert whole families into hockey families. Thanks for your input.

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03-22-2010, 01:21 PM
  #31
SJGoalie32
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Two thoughts here......

1) You said that you had rented a warehouse before. Couldn't you try simply doing that again with another local warehouse? Surely there is another one somewhere in the community you could use.

2) A place I once played a roller hockey tournament in was the Center Cirle in Rahway, NJ. I highly suggest you Google their website and take a look at the pictures of their facility. They have both roller hockey and indoor soccer.

Basically, the building is a series of giant canvas tents held up by steel pipes/braces/supports. It's surprisingly weather-resistant. They do get a ton of rain, snow, strong winds, and both hot & humid temps in the summer and freezing temps in the winter, but the canvas still holds up just fine for the most part. Oh sure, there is the occasional leak and patch job needed, but I remember the old Rollin' Ice facility at the Fairgrounds complex having problems with a leaking roof, too.....and that was solid concrete.

Anyway, when I first saw it, I thought it was a brilliant facility. I don't know if such a facility would meet with the earthquake regulations that California has, but it does fit many other requirements. It seemed to handle the NJ climate and weather just fine, it's undoubtedly significantly cheaper to build and repair on your own (perhaps even cheaper than renting a facility over the long-term), it houses several rec sports, and the opacity of the tent lets enough sunlight into the facility that you could probably even save quite a bit on electric bills by not even turning on the lights in the daytime hours.

Again, don't know if it would work out here or fit into your business plan, but it may be a cheaper, easier, and much faster facility to build. Then you'd just need to fiind an open plot of land.

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03-22-2010, 10:19 PM
  #32
Canadiens1958
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Population

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timzey View Post
we are in the eureka/arcata area, about 250 miles north of san fran, and right on the coast. redwood forest area. not a huge population here, probably around 100k people total. We are just looking for a building to house the roller hockey rink we already purchased (used)

we have been in contact with USA inline hockey, we were affiliated with them at one time, and we were getting our insurance through them, another board member dealt with them more then me, so I am not sure if grants were ever discussed. Basically what we need is a building, we have everything else to get started.

Getting the building has been a nightmare, as we haven't received the public support we thought we would from the local government/city council, parks and rec, etc... we have reached out to local businesses to try and raise funds, and while they are supportive, most don't want to make donations until we can give them something in return (advertising space at our rink, or sponsorship of youth teams)

not sure if USA hockey has grants or funding for upstart hockey programs in areas where they don't exist, but that is something I plan on finding out.
The population base raises some concerns. If you are part of a growing community with young families moving in then youth activities will be a priority and a long term approach that reaches out to the varied interests and needs could be successful

If you are part of a declining community or a retirement oriented community you may have a harder time. Certain community centers have been able to incorporate "golden agers" by providing activities during school or daytime hours. Helps pay the bills and creates a multi-level political base.

Good luck.

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Old
03-23-2010, 01:11 AM
  #33
Timzey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
The population base raises some concerns. If you are part of a growing community with young families moving in then youth activities will be a priority and a long term approach that reaches out to the varied interests and needs could be successful

If you are part of a declining community or a retirement oriented community you may have a harder time. Certain community centers have been able to incorporate "golden agers" by providing activities during school or daytime hours. Helps pay the bills and creates a multi-level political base.

Good luck.
This area is constantly growing and getting bigger, and we do have a a University here which brings in a ton of people who want to play. Definitely not a retirement type community, people leave here when they retire. It is a small area for sure, but based on the programs we have run in the past, and with other sports chipping in, I have no doubt we will be successful.

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03-23-2010, 01:14 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timzey View Post
well we are a non profit so its not a business. but yes we are trying to rent a big enough building to house our rink and run leagues out of. we figure between hockey, roller derby (pretty big here) indoor soccer, and whatever else, we will be able to pay rent for the building and operating costs. $3000 a month would be a good estimate at how much we can afford, unfortunately most places cost more then that, and the ones that don't have had various other issues, zoning bering the primary one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
Timzey, you and I have actually had emails about this via Linked-in.
So I will help you recommend a couple of things you can do.

1. Contact USA Hockey and asked then how to ask for a grant. There is a link on their web site that we can direct you too.

2. Contact the NHLPA, they also have grant money to help you with.
3. Because you are non-profit and you can kind of be considered as faith base because of the work you are doing for the community, contact the US Govt for small business stimulus packages that they are offering. You can find it here: http://www.sba.gov/stimulus/
4. Contact your local Chamber of Commerce. Once you tell them what your plans are for, they will get together a bunch of businessmen to help out. I recommend that you invest on the Chamber of commerce in your area.
5. Contact the Lion's Club in your area. they will help as well.
6. Contact the local chapter of Rotary Club International. They are major players in help non-profits.

When you are ready to develop your program, contact me and I will send you a step by step program on how to build it.

Hope this helps
Head coach
good info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timzey View Post
we have been in contact with realtors, and they have been showing us some buildings, most of which are not properly zoned or too expensive.... but yeah, there has got to be something that can fit the need. Thanks for the ideas.
well, reading through all the posts. i had a feeling you would run into zoning issues as well as many others. i'm a planning consultant that lives a little lower than you in northern california (geographically). i'd be willing to do what i can to help. send me a pm and i'll give you my contact info if you're interested. i play ice hockey in the area, but roller was what started me going way back when.

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Old
03-23-2010, 01:54 AM
  #35
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First, I commend you on bringing hockey to NorCal (waaay North).

To clarify, Sharks Ice is run by the Sharks, Rollin' Ice is not, although it's owned by a former Shark (Dave Maley).

Maybe try a YMCA or similar place? My first experience in organized hockey was at a YMCA....it was outdoor, on a basketball court, with Border Patrol (knee high foam boards), outdoor and with a ball. Humble beginnings indeed! But maybe a YMCA or other existing non-profit or educational facility could be your next home...?

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03-23-2010, 03:04 AM
  #36
Timzey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colombianbrew View Post
A pre-fab building is probably your best best. Often you can get old aircraft hangers for a decent price. Also, check out http://www.sprung.com/en/index.php. I know people who have dealt with them and have been very happy, they can even help you find used structures I think.
wow, those building are pretty awesome, thanks for the suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
Two thoughts here......

1) You said that you had rented a warehouse before. Couldn't you try simply doing that again with another local warehouse? Surely there is another one somewhere in the community you could use.

2) A place I once played a roller hockey tournament in was the Center Cirle in Rahway, NJ. I highly suggest you Google their website and take a look at the pictures of their facility. They have both roller hockey and indoor soccer.

Basically, the building is a series of giant canvas tents held up by steel pipes/braces/supports. It's surprisingly weather-resistant. They do get a ton of rain, snow, strong winds, and both hot & humid temps in the summer and freezing temps in the winter, but the canvas still holds up just fine for the most part. Oh sure, there is the occasional leak and patch job needed, but I remember the old Rollin' Ice facility at the Fairgrounds complex having problems with a leaking roof, too.....and that was solid concrete.

Anyway, when I first saw it, I thought it was a brilliant facility. I don't know if such a facility would meet with the earthquake regulations that California has, but it does fit many other requirements. It seemed to handle the NJ climate and weather just fine, it's undoubtedly significantly cheaper to build and repair on your own (perhaps even cheaper than renting a facility over the long-term), it houses several rec sports, and the opacity of the tent lets enough sunlight into the facility that you could probably even save quite a bit on electric bills by not even turning on the lights in the daytime hours.

Again, don't know if it would work out here or fit into your business plan, but it may be a cheaper, easier, and much faster facility to build. Then you'd just need to fiind an open plot of land.
Yes, we are trying to find another temporary situation like the one we used in the past. We were going to start playing at a school on their basketball court, even got so far as to get our nets out of storage and re-register with USA inline, only to get denied the day before we were supposed to play by the school board. for now the only games we have been able to play have been on tennis courts, fun, but not what we were are looking for.

and also another great idea on the building, something like that would be ideal. and i'm pretty sure they can be built to code, one of the indian casinos up here has a huge tent they hold concerts in, pretty similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSandman View Post
First, I commend you on bringing hockey to NorCal (waaay North).

To clarify, Sharks Ice is run by the Sharks, Rollin' Ice is not, although it's owned by a former Shark (Dave Maley).

Maybe try a YMCA or similar place? My first experience in organized hockey was at a YMCA....it was outdoor, on a basketball court, with Border Patrol (knee high foam boards), outdoor and with a ball. Humble beginnings indeed! But maybe a YMCA or other existing non-profit or educational facility could be your next home...?
This all started at a rec center, where border patrol boards were used, they decided to take out the sports court flooring and put in a rubber floor, total nightmare for our program, at that point we had 4 leagues going, plus drop-in hockey. The new floor killed it, thats when we went out on our own, formed the board and started playing in a warehouse. I am going to look up all the possible locations and give them all a call and see if we can get something going.

thanks to all!!!

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03-23-2010, 06:26 AM
  #37
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Moving Along

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timzey View Post
This area is constantly growing and getting bigger, and we do have a a University here which brings in a ton of people who want to play. Definitely not a retirement type community, people leave here when they retire. It is a small area for sure, but based on the programs we have run in the past, and with other sports chipping in, I have no doubt we will be successful.
Very encouraging. What is the growth rate or population increase the last 10 years?

You stated in another post that your program was impacted by a floor change at a previous venue. Were other activities similarly impacted? If they were you may be able to work with them.

Also you have to look at various assets such as the potential food and drink concession. The need for a small exhibition type facility in the area - local arts & crafts show twice a year, monthly collector's get together, traveling vendors circuit, etc.

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03-23-2010, 10:40 AM
  #38
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Is constructing a building out of the question? There are some cheaper options like maybe a metal building or maybe find an old unused aircraft hanger?

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03-23-2010, 12:41 PM
  #39
Timzey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Very encouraging. What is the growth rate or population increase the last 10 years?

You stated in another post that your program was impacted by a floor change at a previous venue. Were other activities similarly impacted? If they were you may be able to work with them.

Also you have to look at various assets such as the potential food and drink concession. The need for a small exhibition type facility in the area - local arts & crafts show twice a year, monthly collector's get together, traveling vendors circuit, etc.
i am interested to see what this years census says, because I was disappointed to learn that the population only grew 2% from 2000 to 2008. That said, the rate of development over that time had increased and then leveled off with the economy. According to the number, we have 129,000 people here as of 2008.

the other sports were not affected like we were by the floor change. It was supposed to be a multi sport floor that would be good for basketball, volleyball etc..., problem with hockey was, it was sticky, pucks nor sticks could glide over it with ease, we tried to keep the kids program going, because they didn't mind using a ball, but realized we had to quit when we forced to teach the kids to keep their sticks up! (so they wouldn't stick to the ground as they skated around)

We are counting on concession sales being a revenue maker, and we are open to renting it out to whomever needs the space. There are however, lots of art fairs, and expo's around here already, so it could be a good thing, if we can lure them to our building, but most already have a home. and being our population isn't that huge, many of them are held at smaller venues.

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03-23-2010, 12:48 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roaddogg02316 View Post
Is constructing a building out of the question? There are some cheaper options like maybe a metal building or maybe find an old unused aircraft hanger?
Constructing a building isn't out of the equation, but without some serious support from the community and/or government it will be very difficult to afford. Many have mentioned the pre-fab buildings or tent like structures, which can be bought, sometimes used, for pretty decent deals, but we also need a place to put it, that is flat and paved, or get someone to pour us a huge slab. Either way, it seems a little more difficult then raising funds to rent a building.

aircraft hanger, maybe, I should check the local airports and see if they have any space. The closest major airport to here is San Fran, we only have a small commuter airport. So I don't know if they would even have a need for a hanger big enough, but a good idea, I'm going to look into it. thanks.

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03-23-2010, 02:20 PM
  #41
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When planning something like this budgets can really get out of control. In your situation I was thinking an existing building that already has an a stable cement slab. If you were to start from scratch you will be saddled with seismic testing etc. You will also have to see how far it is to get down to bedrock for a solid foundation to build from, otherwise after short period of time you may experience heaving and end up with an uneven floor.

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03-23-2010, 06:50 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james bond View Post
Head Coach, are you in the rink business, have you opened up rinks-programs before?
Sorry for the late response. I just got back from a consulting gig for a rink in Texas. This is what I do! I develop program for rink owners/hockey youth groups. Generally there is a small consulting fee involved. But, in the spirit of a shi**Y economy, I would be more then happy to advise you on programming. You can check out this link on my site for some info. http://www.passthepuck.net/id1008.htm

Once you are up and running, I will send you a like to a blog where I wrote an article on "How to build a youth program from the ground Up!" I fly out of my office tomorrow for another consulting gig on the east coast tomorrow, so I will not be at my desk until Friday. If you have any questions, send me a PM.

Head Coach

PS: Go down to you main public library. There you might find a computer that is linked to the National data base for foundations. I went to my local library two years ago to look up foundation that would give me money for my daughter opera program. While I was there, for sh**s and grins, I plugged in hockey into the database for foundations that support hockey programs. It came up with a long list of foundations that would be willing to help in the area of hockey. It's just a matter of you going to the library and investing the time!

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