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Goalie question for 2010-2011

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Old
03-23-2010, 02:41 PM
  #126
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by Garneij View Post
I can't disagree since I've not seen him play enough. He can be a future star, for sure, but then again he is not there yet.

If you look at the flyers going forward, is this the time to take a project like Schneider and to cross every finger we got that he is the guy? I'm all in for that if Homer makes it clear that this roster will go for the cup in the foreseeable future with a core of Richards, Carter, JvR and roooooux. The thing is that guys like Timonen, Pronger, Briere, Hartnell and Gagne either have bad contracts or that they are seeing the end of the tunnel. With these guys Homer now has a team that will not enable him to do major shake-ups. he made it clear want he wants this team to do when he got Pronger, to win the cup in the next couple of years. So if you look at this from his perspective, I'm not sure if he will pursue Schneider unless he is 100% sure he will give this team that opportunity. Is he willing to throw young guys back to the Nuck's for him?
The thing is, Schneider's not a project. He's ready. What BCF16 said about him being bored is exactly what I was going to say.

Even when he came up for a couple games this year his save percentage was .915. He played 20 minutes of a blowout in Anaheim (7-2) allowing 3 goals on 12 shots, and then had a start against Dallas where he stopped 45 of 47 shots (and still got saddled with the L). I'd say the blowout is further from what he actually is. He's just 24 and is coming into the age where he should be a starter.

He's got the capability to steal games (see Dallas game...yeah, he got the loss but that's not generally the case when you make 45 saves). He would be just fine behind our defense...the trick would be to get a backup who would know his role and be able to support it, but this organization's full follow through lately leaves a lot to be desired.

As far as acquiring him, well, Vancouver seems to think their luxuries are something other teams should pay for. They won't be able to continue with that thought much longer.

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03-23-2010, 02:44 PM
  #127
Larry44
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Originally Posted by Garneij View Post
I can't disagree since I've not seen him play enough. He can be a future star, for sure, but then again he is not there yet.

If you look at the flyers going forward, is this the time to take a project like Schneider and to cross every finger we got that he is the guy? I'm all in for that if Homer makes it clear that this roster will go for the cup in the foreseeable future with a core of Richards, Carter, JvR and roooooux. The thing is that guys like Timonen, Pronger, Briere, Hartnell and Gagne either have bad contracts or that they are seeing the end of the tunnel. With these guys Homer now has a team that will not enable him to do major shake-ups. he made it clear want he wants this team to do when he got Pronger, to win the cup in the next couple of years. So if you look at this from his perspective, I'm not sure if he will pursue Schneider unless he is 100% sure he will give this team that opportunity. Is he willing to throw young guys back to the Nuck's for him?
This is the challenge for Homer in the offseason.

Will he sign Leighton and go with him and Boucher (who IS signed)?

Will he sign a vet UFA? Turco, Ellis?

Will he go for a younger, unproven guy and just turn over the reins? Schneider? Bernier? Could be both costly and risky.

Will they sign a Euro UFA? That Finn UFA, Rynnas is it? Again, an unknown needing an adjustment period.

Will he go for a semi-proven guy who is stuck behind a starter? Halak/Price? Finlay? Could be costlier but less risky.

It will be interesting to see what Homer will do, assuming he's still around.

Whether Boosh is back as backup depends on the next 10 games and playoffs.

Whether Leighton is back depends on how much he asks for.

I could see a deal for a guy like Schneider or Finlay combined with Leighton or a vet UFA like Ellis to give some stability for the next few years at least.

It's a tough market on goalies. You have to get someone who is thick skinned.

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03-23-2010, 02:46 PM
  #128
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Ed Snider today: "I think thereís somebody putting pins in some goalie voodoo doll somewhere in the world."

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Old
03-23-2010, 02:48 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The problem is that with a guy like Coburn, what you see is what you get. He's been in the league now for over four seasons and for the past two, his play has steadily digressed. He's gone from a potential top pairing defenseman to a second pairing to now a bottom pairing defender. People can blame Stevens all they want, but fact is, Coburn has not been able to put it together. My reason for getting rid of him is that a guy like Krajicek came in here and has done what Coburn was supposed to do. How many times do you give a chance to prove himself when every chance he gets, he blows it?
Isn't the same sort of thing that happened with Joni Pitkanen? His play regressed? I am not an expert but I think 4 seasons is not a lot for a d-men to come into his own. Yes you want to see improvement in each and every season but this simply does not work like that in real life and thatís why you give him a lesser role.

I think what's been happening in the past and even now that we overhyped our prospects and young players even know they did not do much.

Krajicek who? Come on now.

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As for Parent, I'm willing to be a little more patient because of all the injuries. However, at some point, his health has to be a consideration in terms of whether he can be a prominent player here or not. I still blame a lot of Parent's health issues on the Flyers inadequate medical staff and how they handle things.
I agree with you but some fans want to trade him already. I do not think a lot of fans realize that we are pressed hard against the cap and we have no real prospects or picks.

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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Matt Carle has been excellent. I have no problems with him at all. The Eminger move really bugged me because he was starting to get it when he got moved. If Holmgren wouldn't have panicked and started making trades for the sake of making trades, Eminger might have turned out to be a good bottom pairing guy.
Excellent? He's been good and even better then last season playing along side with Pronger. I expected this type of improvement but excellent he is not. 3.5 and does not kill penalties not over all physical with occasional brain cramp and that awful pass throw the middle of the ice and makes you want to say WTF. He is ok, tough. Better then Joni PItkanen he is not.

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If you want to blame Holmgren for something, blame him for dealing a bunch of assets for Pronger when we were more than a Chris Pronger away from competing for a Stanley Cup.

Another move that Holmgren should have been fired for. Let's all give someone a bloated contract because they didn't want to go to arbitration with the player.
I am beyond blaming Holmgren. I just do not want to make any moves that we may regret. I am not an expert, just a fan and from my experience watching this team and organization I can say that we make trades too fast based on todayís needs trying to close the holes and gaps.

If we do not make playoffs our management (if not fired) should take a hard look at our core and make some moves.
When we pay over 15million to Gagne, Hartnell and Briere and get around 40 goals we have a problem. So lets do something about that first and then maybe move **** for brain **** up everything, canít do anything right 4 years vet Coburn. By the way I think Cobrun will get a lot better by age of 26-27.

And no, I am not attacking Gagne.
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Woywitka was handled incorrectly by the organization (gee, isn't that a telling sign). As for Delmore, great offensively, but absolutely no D. He was nothing more than a Mike Green during the clutch and grab era.
I do not disagree. Just used them as an example. By the way Sbisa was ****ed in the same kind of way as Woywitka as I remember?

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Old
03-23-2010, 02:58 PM
  #130
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Sure it would be nice to keep Parent and Coburn , but one of them will have to be traded to get a young goalie.

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03-23-2010, 03:00 PM
  #131
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Sure it would be nice to keep Parent and Coburn , but one of them will have to be traded to get a young goalie.
Maybe. Probably.

But if this team had to lose someone from the defensive group, I'd prefer it be Carle. Anyone can play with Chris Pronger...maybe they won't put up the same numbers as Carle, but it's not like he's essential to that pairing. Considering our team, he's also pricey, but not too much to sell to another team.

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03-23-2010, 03:20 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Sure it would be nice to keep Parent and Coburn , but one of them will have to be traded to get a young goalie.
So hmm who is going to step up? What about depth?

Pronger and Timonen will be pushing 36 years old and blocking a tons of shots. Is it unreasonable to think that one of them can get injured, next season?

Or we going to get a real good goalie? Rookie goalie? Vet goalie? 24-26 potential #1? The type of goalie that will will play well with out Timonen or Pronger?

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03-23-2010, 03:45 PM
  #133
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You could always call up the Hawks about Corey Crawford

Would only cost a 3rd in 2011 or a 4th in 2010 probably

Pretty much just been waiting for a chance to play at NHL level. Was supposed to be the #2 behind Khabibulin before Tallon went and signed that loser Huet and then Niemi came along this past camp and played outstanding leading to Crawford having to spend another year in AHL.

I think Crawford could be a good NHL starter and his limited play in NHL has shown he can play at this level.

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Old
03-23-2010, 04:15 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Ed Snider today: "I think thereís somebody putting pins in some goalie voodoo doll somewhere in the world."
nah, just you and your gm are blind to the fact you cant win with slop. then again any dime a dozen goalie on an elite young team stacked on d and o doesnt need a great goalie.

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Old
03-23-2010, 10:54 PM
  #135
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So hmm who is going to step up? What about depth?
Lehtivuori and Bodrov are candidates. Both have also played against men and are probably head and shoulders above Marshall and Bourdon right now (and that's not a bad thing either).

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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Pronger and Timonen will be pushing 36 years old and blocking a tons of shots. Is it unreasonable to think that one of them can get injured, next season?
Agreed. The point with having both of them was that they were supposed to help Carle and Coburn get to the next level. Carle has been light years ahead of Coburn with regards to his play this year. If Coburn would have taken that much needed step and put everything together, they'd be playing the 25+ minutes a night and you'd see Pronger and Timonen get a break in their ice time. Someone has to step forward next season or we will spend time without Pronger and Timonen (we should have spent time without Kimmo this year with regards to his back and feet, but the man is tough as nails).

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Or we going to get a real good goalie? Rookie goalie? Vet goalie? 24-26 potential #1? The type of goalie that will will play well with out Timonen or Pronger?
The problem is that UFA-wise, there really isn't much to choose from. There's Turco and Nabokov and that's about it. RFA there's a few, but honestly, the Flyers best interest is to go after a guy like Schneider who is ready to make the jump and has been ready for two seasons now. Although, I have to admit I wouldn't have a problem if they somehow managed to land a goalie like Jonas Gustavsson, who's played overall very well for the Leafs. I have no faith that Backlund is going to do anything and Eriksson probably won't be ready for another two seasons.

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03-24-2010, 01:12 PM
  #136
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Is there any forwards out there this summer you'd like for us to go after, via trades?

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03-24-2010, 01:27 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Jonas Gustavsson, who's played overall very well for the Leafs. I have no faith that Backlund is going to do anything and Eriksson probably won't be ready for another two seasons.
I don't think Gustavsson is a very good goalie at all, from watching him in the Olympics and what (little) I've seen for TO this year.

I haven't seen that much, though...but he hasn't impressed me.

I'd make a play for Schneider, Benier, Halak/Price (whichever is available), Harding....probably examining the options in that order, too.

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03-24-2010, 01:49 PM
  #138
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I don't think Gustavsson is a very good goalie at all, from watching him in the Olympics and what (little) I've seen for TO this year.

I haven't seen that much, though...but he hasn't impressed me.

I'd make a play for Schneider, Benier, Halak/Price (whichever is available), Harding....probably examining the options in that order, too.
My darkhorse for a developmental goalie is Jeff Zatkoff from LA.

Stuck behind Quick, Ersberg and Bernier.

http://kings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8473553

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=81014

and a good read here:
http://kings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=505524

The Kings are going to have to make some choices soon, this kid might be a sleeper.

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03-24-2010, 02:18 PM
  #139
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My darkhorse for a developmental goalie is Jeff Zatkoff from LA.

Stuck behind Quick, Ersberg and Bernier.

http://kings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8473553

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=81014

and a good read here:
http://kings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=505524

The Kings are going to have to make some choices soon, this kid might be a sleeper.
Zatkoff could definitely work. His numbers have been good everywhere he's been. The only worry I have is that he's only played or appeared in 166 games over a 6 year period. He might not be able to handle a full workload for at least 2 to 3 seasons. But yeah, get him some valuable playing time and he's a great option.

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Old
03-24-2010, 02:23 PM
  #140
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I don't think Gustavsson is a very good goalie at all, from watching him in the Olympics and what (little) I've seen for TO this year.

I haven't seen that much, though...but he hasn't impressed me.

I'd make a play for Schneider, Benier, Halak/Price (whichever is available), Harding....probably examining the options in that order, too.
Living in London, Ontario, Leafs games are pretty much on nothing but TSN, TSN2, Rogers Sportsnet and CBC. Unfortunately, I've had plenty of opportunities to watch Leafs games and Gustavsson really is a good goalie. He's superb technically and positionally, but I would say that his puck handling skills leave a lot to be desired. His lateral movement is probably the fastest from any goalie I've seen. Part of the reason he's not looking good right now is that he's been peppered with shots in Toronto and that it's starting to catch up with him. So, once he gets into the full swing of playing a season that's more than 40 games and when he isn't facing 30+ shots a night, he'll get even better.

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