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Old
03-23-2010, 10:23 PM
  #51
Haute Couturier
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“We seem to have a little bit of a lack of motivation which shouldn’t be there,” said Flyer captain Mike Richards after Tuesday’s anemic 2-0 defeat to the Senators at Scotiabank Place.

“The lack of urgency, which shouldn’t be there. It’s obviously frustrating to go through a game like that and not see everyone play their hardest.”
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Old
03-23-2010, 10:25 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
It would take this team years to even start to rebuild. At this point, they need to aim for the Cup every year. Kimmo, Briere, and Pronger are going to be old and highly paid and until each of those contracts is up, we can't rebuild. We also aren't going to have significant infusions of talent for several seasons due to the loss of picks. The team just has to keep fighting and we need to make what (relatively minor) moves we can.
I agree with this. I think this team needs to try to win each year. I don't think they should mortgage the future each year, but certainly make changes to try to get over the top. As many posters have pointed out, there is too much talent on this team to try and rebuild. I think there is a window of several years with this team - as long as Kimmo and Pronger are playing at a high level, and with the (hopeful) development of JVR and Giroux, this team should be able to compete. I don't know what went wrong this season.

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Old
03-23-2010, 10:32 PM
  #53
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“We seem to have a little bit of a lack of motivation which shouldn’t be there,” said Flyer captain Mike Richards after Tuesday’s anemic 2-0 defeat to the Senators at Scotiabank Place.

“The lack of urgency, which shouldn’t be there. It’s obviously frustrating to go through a game like that and not see everyone play their hardest.”
These quotes got old a long time ago this season. How can the players even say these with any sense of revelation anymore? You talk and talk about lacking a spark, about a slow start, about getting behind and you do the same thing again the next night, and the next night. When does the penny drop that words have to lead to action?

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03-23-2010, 10:42 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
These quotes got old a long time ago this season. How can the players even say these with any sense of revelation anymore? You talk and talk about lacking a spark, about a slow start, about getting behind and you do the same thing again the next night, and the next night. When does the penny drop that words have to lead to action?
The moment one of the corner stones gets moved, this stops. If a Carter or Richards get dealt over the summer, I guarantee that snaps everyone out of it. I'm not advocating dealing either one, but it's going to take a move of that nature to get everyone to snap out of it. The country club atmosphere has been going on too long now. Honestly, it's like watching the Rangers of the late 90s and all the retirement deals they gave out. I look at the Flyers and I see all kinds of retirement deals right now. I hope a big shake up comes this summer and that maybe one, two pieces are left in place.

I never thought I'd say this, but the dealing of Upshall and Lupul and letting Knuble walk has really come back to haunt this team. There is absolutely no chemistry or camaraderie out there.

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Old
03-23-2010, 10:43 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
i would rather trade JVR or Giroux for a A+ goalie, win, win, win, then rebuild.
anyone agree?

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Old
03-23-2010, 10:58 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
anyone agree?

The Flyers couldn't afford a contract on a goalie like that.

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:02 PM
  #57
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It's just not a goaltender question this season. I'll go out on a limb and say that far more games were lost by listless play and offensive impotence by the skaters than bad goals by the tenders.

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:07 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by richieformvp View Post
If this season continues to spiral down the tur-let and the Flyers decided to actually re-build instead of patch holes and re-tool, could you be patient enough to let it play it out over a 3-5 year period. I really think this is the only way to do it right.

First, Snider needs to sell his remaining share in the team. The karma under him has gotten worse each year since 1975 and it won't get any better
Second, do whatever it takes to shed some of these dead weight contracts .. Briere, Gagne and Hartnell come right to mind ..even if you have to pay some of the salary and only get middle round draft picks for them. Load up on draft picks.
Third, sign Michael Leighton to a 2-3 year deal and let him be the bridge to one of the young goalies, currently in the organization (Backlund, Morrisson, Gunnarsson) or draft one this year.
Fourth .. start to build by giving young players currently on the team bigger roles .. Giroux, JVR, Coburn, Parent and Carle ...while promoting some younger guys like Legein, Matsumoto and Maroon to see what you have in the minor leagues.
Last, get as far under the cap as you can while the young guys develop, so you are in position to sign the needed pieces when the team is ready to compete.
Between not having first round picks this & next year and having seemingly unmovable contacts for some older players (e.g. Briere, Pronger, etc.) we're in a bad position to try to rebuild. I don't see any of the goalies in our system being the future. The only one I think has a shot right now is Joacim Eriksson and I'm not totally sold on him yet. Also I don't see guys like Legein, Matsumoto and Maroon as anything more than 3rd liners at best.

I totally disagree about Snider. Karma has nothing to do with it. I might not always agree with Snider's decisions but he is probably one of the best owners in the league largely because he actually cares.

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:08 PM
  #59
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this organization doesn't know what rebuild means... it's not really up to the fans to have the patience, it's the ownership and they definitely don't have it... i agree we need to get rid of some guys (hartnell, gagne, briere, coburn), but we won't get much of anything for them besides gagne and maybe coburn... they should also look to get rid of homer and hire someone outside the organization to take his job like they did with laviolette

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:09 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
It's just not a goaltender question this season. I'll go out on a limb and say that far more games were lost by listless play and offensive impotence by the skaters than bad goals by the tenders.
Just a crazy theory here.
Is it possible that the team lost its scoring touch because they practice against weaker goalies that do not play to the level of most NHL keepers? So that scoring well in practice does not translate into scoring during the games.

Having been a coach (not hockey) for a long period of time, I know that you can only improve your skills when you practice "up hill".

Does this theory "hold any water"?

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:10 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
It's just not a goaltender question this season. I'll go out on a limb and say that far more games were lost by listless play and offensive impotence by the skaters than bad goals by the tenders.
This season I believe that is absolutely true, and sad when you look at this team on paper. Even healthy the goal tending looks like the weak point of the team, and while I wouldn't call it a strength I would say all other areas have been far more disappointing.

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:12 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by CSKA1974 View Post
Just a crazy theory here.
Is it possible that the team lost its scoring touch because they practice against weaker goalies that do not play to the level of most NHL keepers? So that scoring well in practice does not translate into scoring during the games.

Having been a coach (not hockey) for a long period of time, I know that you can only improve your skills when you practice "up hill".

Does this theory "hold any water"?
I don't think that really has anything to do with it. Practicing against lesser goal tenders should affect the effort, and that's be a major failure.

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:17 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by whatthef View Post
I don't think that really has anything to do with it. Practicing against lesser goal tenders should affect the effort, and that's be a major failure.
Even when they seem to have an effort, they dont outplay the keepers. Gagne's non goals in 1 on 1 situations and Carter's shots at the logos are the evidence.


Last edited by CSKA1974: 03-23-2010 at 11:19 PM. Reason: typos
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Old
03-24-2010, 08:32 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by richieformvp View Post
(...)
Second, do whatever it takes to shed some of these dead weight contracts .. Briere, Gagne and Hartnell come right to mind ..even if you have to pay some of the salary and only get middle round draft picks for them. Load up on draft picks.(...)
Someone might already have said it later in the thread, but I don't think you can do that in the NHL (other than by taking a crappy contract from the other team).

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Old
03-24-2010, 11:07 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Impossible to tell where we'd be.

I'd say our team would look like this:

Gagne-Richards-Knuble
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
JvR-Giroux-Lupul
Laperierre-Betts-Carcillo

Timonen-Coburn
Carle-Sbisa
Parent-Bartulis

Emery
Boucher

Don't know who would be that #4 defenseman, but offensively, we would be lethal.
Well, Luca is one option....

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Old
03-25-2010, 12:05 AM
  #66
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I don't think our players understand the logo they wear on their chest....
This team doesn't have half the heart the fans of the team have and it sucks.

The makeup of our lines as well just don't click for me. I don't sense any chemisty in any line on this entire team. These players don't play well with each other. Some things need to change and I'm willing to accept some serious re-tooling in the offseason. If some of my favorite players have to go to make things work, I'm down. Yes, I mean the untouchables, Giroux, JVR, Carter, and for that matter anyone.


Where are the Jason Smiths? Where are the Keith Primeaus? Even the Kapanens... Where is the leader that is proud of this team and city? Let Clarkie lace them up and strap a C on his chest, he will play with more fire at his age then these ******* our there right now. Everyone wants to bow down to the savior Chris Pronger, but imo he has been far too quiet on and off the ice. He needs to make a statement. What is it going to take to get this team to wake up? Are these players just not into it? I don't want them on my team if that is so.

Package JVR/Briere and JVR/Hartnell and see what kind of offers you get. Obviously you have to threaten Danny boys life to get him to waive the NMC but still. That sheds some salary and allows us to work on a 2 scoring line / 2 checking line team. Maybe buy into the fact that we need to pay a goalie 1/12 of our cap space and not 1/30. Kimo can make 6.3 million and Pronger can make 5 million, but our goalie can't? Our goalie is the defender that puts in 60 minutes a night. Don't get me started with our forwards salaries. We need to change our mindset on how to build a successful team in the NHL. Post-lockout has been a disaster as a big market team who's goal year-in and year-out is the cup.


With all that said, go Flyers. Still hoping to win the cup this year. As a Flyers fan, that is our expectation every year, and they are failing us.

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Old
03-25-2010, 12:41 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Sanders418777 View Post


Where are the Jason Smiths? Where are the Keith Primeaus? Even the Kapanens... Where is the leader that is proud of this team and city? Let Clarkie lace them up and strap a C on his chest, he will play with more fire at his age then these ******* our there right now. Everyone wants to bow down to the savior Chris Pronger, but imo he has been far too quiet on and off the ice. He needs to make a statement. What is it going to take to get this team to wake up? Are these players just not into it? I don't want them on my team if that is so.
Umberger put a Flyers tattoo on his body, we shipped him out. Knuble always was a pretty proud Flyer, we shipped him out as well. Metropolit worked pretty hard, drop him like its hot.

We need to free up some cash and get a goalie and a few character players.

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03-25-2010, 01:03 AM
  #68
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I'd like to add Lappy is a guy who seems very proud to play for this team. Not to mention Betts. Those guys every night risk their body taking shots from the point.

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03-25-2010, 01:19 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
I find it hard to question a team's desire from behind a TV screen.
Well I can tell they have no spine.

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03-25-2010, 01:44 AM
  #70
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I'd like to add Lappy is a guy who seems very proud to play for this team. Not to mention Betts. Those guys every night risk their body taking shots from the point.
No doubt about it. I'm talking about the young core. I'm talking about our talented guys. The guys who could put the team on their back and win a game for us. I don't see the fire in them...

EDIT: And even the other forwards making big dollars.... the Hartnells and Brieres.

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Old
03-25-2010, 12:00 PM
  #71
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Well I can tell they have no spine.
Yeah, a couple of bad losses tells you a whole lot about a team in the context of a nearly 100 games season.

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Old
03-25-2010, 12:30 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Yeah, a couple of bad losses tells you a whole lot about a team in the context of a nearly 100 games season.
Here's the context of an 82 game season:

They are barely holding onto a playoff position, and hemorrhaging points to teams that are in the race against them.

I'm not jumping on the ledge, but don't act like these aren't particularly bad games to be failing to show up in.

Especially when the reasons they've lost these last few games are the same reasons they've had numerous other slumps and failures this year.

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03-25-2010, 02:06 PM
  #73
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Here's the context of an 82 game season:

They are barely holding onto a playoff position, and hemorrhaging points to teams that are in the race against them.

I'm not jumping on the ledge, but don't act like these aren't particularly bad games to be failing to show up in.

Especially when the reasons they've lost these last few games are the same reasons they've had numerous other slumps and failures this year.
I'm well aware of all that. This is also a team that was, until recently, the second best in the east in 2010. Every time the team hits a funk everyone seems to forget they're equally capable of catching fire.

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03-25-2010, 02:40 PM
  #74
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I'm well aware of all that. This is also a team that was, until recently, the second best in the east in 2010. Every time the team hits a funk everyone seems to forget they're equally capable of catching fire.
No, the problem is that every time this team hits a funk, people take issue with the fact that a team this talented on paper should be playing at a high level on a more consistent basis, and not hitting multiple bad funks within one year where they play the same uninspired, inconsistent hockey and seem at a loss as to how to get out of it.

This team should have been a contender. Even with subpar goaltending, they should be good enough to sit in the middle of the conference comfortably.

However, our big stars show up inconsistently and guys like Hartnell and Briere are underachieving. It's not just a funk...it's an entire year of people failing miserably to live up to their potential. And now they're "hitting a funk" at a time that could see us dropping out of the playoffs if it turns into a bad skid - which we have seen this year.

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Old
03-25-2010, 04:01 PM
  #75
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i think patience is whats needed now. we basicly reconstructed the team over the summer. upshall lupul knuble biron even jones these guys left vaccuums in the room and on the ice and its going to take time for this new team to figure out who fits where. its hard to play for the guy next to you when the thought he might be traded for that mvp capspace at any moment is lingering in your head.

this offseason i think we try and re-sign the guys we can and fill the holes (goaltender) with the space that remains. and try to address the other issues (scoring depth, chemistry) in camp. some adjustments do need to be made (why is our best checking center on the 1st line?) but what i think what this team needs most is consistency.

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