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Lotto win more likely than playoffs for Rangers

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Old
03-25-2010, 05:49 AM
  #1
jas
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Lotto win more likely than playoffs for Rangers

Lotto win more likely than playoffs for Rangers


Brooks on target -

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The fact is that the Rangers headed into last night equidistant between the last playoff berth and last place in the East, the spot currently held by the Maple Leafs. Before the season concludes, the Blueshirts will play a home-and-home with Toronto, on the road this Saturday and at home on April 7.

If that doesn't represent the Rangers' best chance to make up ground in the potato-sack race for the postseason they have been stumbling and bumbling through by winning two of the last nine (2-5-2), it sure represents this club's best chance of turning a Sow's year into a silk purse by dropping down into a draft lottery position -- perhaps even a shot at the first overall pick, should they be bad on the ice and lucky in the drawing.

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03-25-2010, 10:26 AM
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Agreed.

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Old
03-25-2010, 10:28 AM
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WhipNash27
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Agreed. Unfortunately too many Rangers fans would rather see them finish in 9th place than get Hall or Seguin. That really worked out well for us for 7 years...

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03-25-2010, 10:36 AM
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as usual, uncle larry's got it right.

winning at this point does nothing but make us worse since the opposite of that- losing, will improve our draft position and thus, give us a chance to get a higher quality draft choice which in turn could make us better.

the time for a late season surge was at the end of feb. since march 1st this bunch of misfits has managed to go 4-7


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03-25-2010, 10:59 AM
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If Torts won the lottery would he still try to be a dictator? Guess now Larry will slam him for winning. I just can't root for them to lose during a game but at all other times I do agree with Loopy Larry.

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03-25-2010, 11:24 AM
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Only thing I'm concerned about for the end of the season.

1) Hank getting to 30 wins
2) Getting a better draft pick.

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03-25-2010, 11:42 AM
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They won't do it... they can't even lose right.

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03-25-2010, 11:51 AM
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I see everyone's point on the desire to "TANK". Can I ask a question? How does one go about "tanking"? I am being serious and I am not trying to be condescending or a wise guy because I understand the reward for tanking. I just can't comprehend "how". If you are the GM, do you actually call your coach and say "Hey coach, we really need to lose these next 9 games to improve our draft position". Does the coach tell his players not to try? As much as Sather and Torotorella have been criticized, I cannot see them being the types to have that attitude and if they did, I certainly do not want them affiliated with the Rangers.

But seriously, to tank the season. I cannot envision a scenario where Tortorella or Sather have a team meeting and say "Hey guys, listen up. We can't win tonight. Henke, let a few in, if you know what I mean <wink>". "Hey Cally, hold up on a few of those body checks when playing today". "Hey Dan (Girardi), if the opposition goes after one of our stars, try not to get too physical" : )

Or as a GM, say you make deadline moves that indicate being a "seller". (examples were Prospal or Joikenen being traded for picks). Their replacements would likely be AHL players who are getting a shot an NHL roster spot. Are you telling me to convince those guys to "tank"? They would probably be so pumped to be in the NHL that they would be the hardest working players on the ice.

If by chance, the Rangers were able to nab the #1 overall pick, great! This team has already proven that it lacks a winning culture. Heck, they don't even have a mediocre culture. The attitude is bad as it is, to ask a team to tank cannot be a positive for the long term success of any hockey club.

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03-25-2010, 11:54 AM
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Little late Larry.

This should have been the article he wrote before the deadline.

Its been abundantly clear that this year has been a transition year from the very start.

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03-25-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
I see everyone's point on the desire to "TANK". Can I ask a question? How does one go about "tanking"? I am being serious and I am not trying to be condescending or a wise guy because I understand the reward for tanking. I just can't comprehend "how". If you are the GM, do you actually call your coach and say "Hey coach, we really need to lose these next 9 games to improve our draft position". Does the coach tell his players not to try? As much as Sather and Torotorella have been criticized, I cannot see them being the types to have that attitude and if they did, I certainly do not want them affiliated with the Rangers.

But seriously, to tank the season. I cannot envision a scenario where Tortorella or Sather have a team meeting and say "Hey guys, listen up. We can't win tonight. Henke, let a few in, if you know what I mean <wink>". "Hey Cally, hold up on a few of those body checks when playing today". "Hey Dan (Girardi), if the opposition goes after one of our stars, try not to get too physical" : )

Or as a GM, say you make deadline moves that indicate being a "seller". (examples were Prospal or Joikenen being traded for picks). Their replacements would likely be AHL players who are getting a shot an NHL roster spot. Are you telling me to convince those guys to "tank"? They would probably be so pumped to be in the NHL that they would be the hardest working players on the ice.

If by chance, the Rangers were able to nab the #1 overall pick, great! This team has already proven that it lacks a winning culture. Heck, they don't even have a mediocre culture. The attitude is bad as it is, to ask a team to tank cannot be a positive for the long term success of any hockey club.
really? How is Pittsburgh doing lately? How was their winning culture before Crosby?

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03-25-2010, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Little late Larry.

This should have been the article he wrote before the deadline.

Its been abundantly clear that this year has been a transition year from the very start.
I don't think so. I think it's at the correct time; however, the Rangers won't tank. That's certain. Not with Tortorella behind the bench, not with Lundqvist between the pipes...

They beat the lowly Isles, I'm not impressed. This team won't and cannot make the playoffs. But they will try.

The question then becomes.... are they BAD enough to lose while trying these last half-dozen plus games? Hope so.

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03-25-2010, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
really? How is Pittsburgh doing lately? How was their winning culture before Crosby?
FOXHOUND - so you believe they tanked? And I am not being argumentative as I knew someone would bring up either the Crosby or Mario Lemieux example.

But can I ask, how they went about "tanking"? (Don't forget that Fleury and Malkin were #1 and #2 (A.O. was #1 in 2004), and the Crosby draft may have been a little, well you know...Bettman influenced.

Seriously Fox, how did Pittsburgh tell the team to tank. I guess my post was a bit unclear because you bolded my point. I understand the benefit. How do you do it?

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03-25-2010, 12:02 PM
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Riche16
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Do one or the other! Win or lose... but don't go 5-5 down the stretch.

Winning streak or tank.

The middle ground is the only thing that can't happen. At all costs.

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03-25-2010, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Do one or the other! Win or lose... but don't go 5-5 down the stretch.

Winning streak or tank.

The middle ground is the only thing that can't happen. At all costs.
And it will. Because these are the Rangers. And they can't win or lose correctly.

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Old
03-25-2010, 12:13 PM
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This story will also appear in the next issue of Obvious Weekly.

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Old
03-25-2010, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
I see everyone's point on the desire to "TANK". Can I ask a question? How does one go about "tanking"? I am being serious and I am not trying to be condescending or a wise guy because I understand the reward for tanking. I just can't comprehend "how". If you are the GM, do you actually call your coach and say "Hey coach, we really need to lose these next 9 games to improve our draft position". Does the coach tell his players not to try? As much as Sather and Torotorella have been criticized, I cannot see them being the types to have that attitude and if they did, I certainly do not want them affiliated with the Rangers.

But seriously, to tank the season. I cannot envision a scenario where Tortorella or Sather have a team meeting and say "Hey guys, listen up. We can't win tonight. Henke, let a few in, if you know what I mean <wink>". "Hey Cally, hold up on a few of those body checks when playing today". "Hey Dan (Girardi), if the opposition goes after one of our stars, try not to get too physical" : )

Or as a GM, say you make deadline moves that indicate being a "seller". (examples were Prospal or Joikenen being traded for picks). Their replacements would likely be AHL players who are getting a shot an NHL roster spot. Are you telling me to convince those guys to "tank"? They would probably be so pumped to be in the NHL that they would be the hardest working players on the ice.

If by chance, the Rangers were able to nab the #1 overall pick, great! This team has already proven that it lacks a winning culture. Heck, they don't even have a mediocre culture. The attitude is bad as it is, to ask a team to tank cannot be a positive for the long term success of any hockey club.
No, you don't specifically ask the players and coaches to lose.

However, there are certain things you can do to signal a change in culture. Trade Prospal and Jokinen for picks/prospects. Call up guys like Sanguinetti and Weise and give them a shot. Give Auld a couple more starts. Make sure the effort is still there, but from a management point of view you need to loosen the leash a bit on the playoff hunt.

Anyway, most people aren't saying that they want the Rangers to purposely lose. Most of us want the Rangers to go out there and give an honest effort... and still lose. We don't want the Rangers to just give up. We want them to lose in spite of the effort, but only for the sake of a higher draft pick.

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03-25-2010, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
No, you don't specifically ask the players and coaches to lose.

However, there are certain things you can do to signal a change in culture. Trade Prospal and Jokinen for picks/prospects. Call up guys like Sanguinetti and Weise and give them a shot. Give Auld a couple more starts. Make sure the effort is still there, but from a management point of view you need to loosen the leash a bit on the playoff hunt.

Anyway, most people aren't saying that they want the Rangers to purposely lose. Most of us want the Rangers to go out there and give an honest effort... and still lose. We don't want the Rangers to just give up. We want them to lose in spite of the effort, but only for the sake of a higher draft pick.
There you go hlundqvist! That was a great answer. If a top draft pick is in our grasp, it would have to be with the fate of the game.

You mentioning Weise and Sanguinetti brings me to a bit of a conflict. I certainly would hope that their efforts lead to success. I would certainly hope that a scenario comes up where you bring Sanguinetti up and he is so bad that we do lose, giving us a better draft pick but now have a concern that Sanguinetti is a bust

FOX mentioned Pittsburgh but I would prefer to use the Red Wings or <gulp> the Devils as a blueprint.

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03-25-2010, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
FOXHOUND - so you believe they tanked? And I am not being argumentative as I knew someone would bring up either the Crosby or Mario Lemieux example.

But can I ask, how they went about "tanking"? (Don't forget that Fleury and Malkin were #1 and #2 (A.O. was #1 in 2004), and the Crosby draft may have been a little, well you know...Bettman influenced.

Seriously Fox, how did Pittsburgh tell the team to tank. I guess my post was a bit unclear because you bolded my point. I understand the benefit. How do you do it?
I was responding to your notion that not having a winning culture will effect a team in the longrun. That's just untrue.

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03-25-2010, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
I see everyone's point on the desire to "TANK". Can I ask a question? How does one go about "tanking"?
Easy. First, understand that this team is where it currently is by trying to win every game. So this team isn't good to begin with.

Second, yes these guys are professionals and yes, many will be playing for jobs next season, but it is human nature to letdown when you have nothing to play for.

Third, the GM and/or coach can replace players in the lineup. Why risk Henrik and Gabby when there's nothing to play for? Sit them out some games. Bring up some kids to see what they can do.

No one is saying that they should try to lose, but this is a team that already loses consistently without trying to. Once the focus shifts to next year, it will be even more likely that we will lose our remaining games. Of course, the same could be said for the teams behind us, so who knows where we will end up.

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03-25-2010, 12:37 PM
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I want the team to lose every remaining game.

But with that I'm also hoping that individual players do well. Hank to continue his strong play, Gabby to continue scoring, DZ to play well etc. Good individual performances & for all to stay healthy.

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03-25-2010, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
FOXHOUND - so you believe they tanked?
They didn't tank on purpose, just as the Isles and Coyotes didn't. At the time of their lottery pick performances, they were losing money, had almost no local interest in the team and were under threat to move away. Market conditions, not a premeditated choice to go out onto the ice and try to lose the game.

Clearly, the financial ruin to Cup champion path is the one less traveled. Being the 30th placed team is a not a requirement for a successful rebuild as evidenced by GM's who actually know how to build a winner with their brains and skill, not a gift from the league.

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03-25-2010, 12:41 PM
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I was responding to your notion that not having a winning culture will effect a team in the longrun. That's just untrue.
Are you sure you are a Rangers fan?

I am joking with you, FOX. But seriously, I respectfully disagree with that because I certainly believe that team chemistry and a winning environment are paramount to a team's success. There are always exceptions to the rule. I just remember when Messier joined the Rangers in 1991 how the entire team changed. Adam Graves, when speaking about Messier, mentioned that it was taboo to talk about the Stanley Cup and Messier came in and said, YES Talk about it, we want it. Not an exact comparison but something that stuck with me.

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03-25-2010, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
No one is saying that they should try to lose, but this is a team that already loses consistently without trying to. Once the focus shifts to next year, it will be even more likely that we will lose our remaining games. Of course, the same could be said for the teams behind us, so who knows where we will end up.
Thank you for the response GAGLINE. Well, we are doing fine, losing, as is so keep everything status quo!

Melrose - excellent point.

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03-25-2010, 01:11 PM
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Are you sure you are a Rangers fan?

I am joking with you, FOX. But seriously, I respectfully disagree with that because I certainly believe that team chemistry and a winning environment are paramount to a team's success. There are always exceptions to the rule. I just remember when Messier joined the Rangers in 1991 how the entire team changed. Adam Graves, when speaking about Messier, mentioned that it was taboo to talk about the Stanley Cup and Messier came in and said, YES Talk about it, we want it. Not an exact comparison but something that stuck with me.
Again, look at the penguins. No winning culture before Crosby and then they won the Stanley cup. Caps had no winning culture, but then they got ovechin, green semin and backstrom from being bad. "winning culture" is a myth. Bring in good players and they will win.

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03-25-2010, 01:25 PM
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Bring in good players and they will win.
Hasn't that been tried before and we still missed the playoffs. Culture is definitely part of it. Without it, and team chemistry, you can bring in the all star team and you will be unsuccessful. Penguns and Caps have both missed the playoffs with Crosby and Ovechkin....and the Caps haven't won yet. Look at the Devils and Red Wings. Multiple cups. When have the Red Wings tanked?


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