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Rangers in hunt for Zuccarello-Aasen (Toronto Star: Signs with NYR?)

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Old
03-26-2010, 09:45 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
agreed.

These projects never work out here. This team can't afford signing on non-NHL players with the hopes theyll develop into something great down the line, or possibly their first season in the NHL. (see Gilroy) This team takes too many risks as it is with the NHL reclamation projects alone.
Umm, why not? Other than skirting the 50 contract limit, what risk is there? Gilroy is on the team because he earned the spot over other players. Whatever you think of him, the alternatives were worse.

Have Ambuhl or Heikinnen cost us anything? No, they haven't. No draft picks spent, signed for very little money most often and no cap implications if they don't make the team. And they normally sign a 1 or 2 year deal. There's far less risk in these players than signing a draft pick to an ELC.

Granted most of these players don't pan out (at least not for us), but that doesn't mean you don't sign them, because some of them do end up being solid NHL players.

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Old
03-26-2010, 09:49 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by pwoz View Post
5'7" 154lbs!?!?!?!?!!?

Sure he's skilled, but he'd get destroyed unless he's a ninja!
He's Petr Prucha in every way. Works hard. Has speed and skill. Will get leveled every 3 games in the NHL. Will look like a 2nd line player, but never do enough to stay there...

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03-26-2010, 10:50 AM
  #28
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We're close to the contract limit as it is. I dont want to sign this guy at the cost of being unable to resign Sauer.

Plus, im all for quick skilled guys, but 5'7 154 is obscene. For every 1 Marty St Louis there are 100 others in the euro leagues who couldnt make it in the NHL. Pass if this is our attempt at improving goal scoring.

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03-26-2010, 10:57 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
We're close to the contract limit as it is. I dont want to sign this guy at the cost of being unable to resign Sauer.
I seriously doubt that becomes an issue. The Rangers would probably end up swapping MZA for Parenteau and letting PA try and get a legitimate shot with another club.

Quote:
Plus, im all for quick skilled guys, but 5'7 154 is obscene. For every 1 Marty St Louis there are 100 others in the euro leagues who couldnt make it in the NHL. Pass if this is our attempt at improving goal scoring.
Again, there's no risk involved here. For every Lundqvist there's 100's of other goalies who have played in Europe but couldn't hack it in the NHL, does that mean we don't sign anymore goalies from Europe?

If he doesn't improve the goal scoring, what harm is he going to cause the organization? Is he preventing us from acquiring Kovalchuk or something? If he stinks it up, he's not going to block a kid from earning a spot, and Sather can't offer him an absurd amount of money. So, again, what's the downside?

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03-26-2010, 11:03 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
We're close to the contract limit as it is. I dont want to sign this guy at the cost of being unable to resign Sauer.

Plus, im all for quick skilled guys, but 5'7 154 is obscene. For every 1 Marty St Louis there are 100 others in the euro leagues who couldnt make it in the NHL. Pass if this is our attempt at improving goal scoring.
Well, guys like Kris Newbury and PA Parenteau will be gone from HFD, so they're going to need to bring in some extra forwards for the Pack. If MZA can't make the big club, he's a forward for Hartford. The contract limit hasn't really been much of an issue for us and shouldn't be this off season.

EDIT: Trxjw beat me to it.

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Old
03-26-2010, 11:05 AM
  #31
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Also, there are other teams vying for his services. If he chooses to sign here and doesn't make the team, and we for some reason need to move him, I'm sure another team would still be willing to give him a shot.

He can go play with Shrimp over on the Island or something.

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Old
03-26-2010, 11:20 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
didnt we hear stuff like this about ambuhl ? we seem to have a fixation on petr prucha wannabes

please, let detroit take him, im sure hell be a superstar for them. for us, hell be another undersized euro who torts will eventually come to dislike

not really all that interested in someone whos got the build of a jockey

no thanks.
I don't know, Ambuhl had never been able to score a lot at any level. He is a solid player, he can play a game against like a Canada's best and get a long. You can't say that about just anyone. But nobody ever said that he could score a lot. He is a 2-way guy.

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Old
03-26-2010, 11:25 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
He's Petr Prucha in every way. Works hard. Has speed and skill. Will get leveled every 3 games in the NHL. Will look like a 2nd line player, but never do enough to stay there...
Petr Prucha had 17 pts in 47 games at the age of 23 in Europe.

In a better league, MZA had 66 pts in 55 games. And the SEL is a lot better then the finnish league too -- stats in the SEL can't be compared to what guys like Leino or Pessonen put up in the finnish league last season. No offense to the finns, but thats not the case anymore.

Compareing MZA with someone the avg small european player i kind of like comparing Chris Kreider with Jordan Foote. Like "great another fast college player, we all know they will suck".

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Old
03-26-2010, 11:28 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Plus, im all for quick skilled guys, but 5'7 154 is obscene. For every 1 Marty St Louis there are 100 others in the euro leagues who couldnt make it in the NHL. Pass if this is our attempt at improving goal scoring.
He is pretty stocky, I doubt he actually is anywhere near as light as 154. Probably up towards 170-180, not that that is big but still.

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Old
03-26-2010, 11:32 AM
  #35
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MZA plays bigger than he really is. He was a pure beast in the Olympics despite the fact that Norway got annihilated, he played great and didn't shy away from the physical stuff either.

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Old
03-26-2010, 11:38 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
He is pretty stocky, I doubt he actually is anywhere near as light as 154. Probably up towards 170-180, not that that is big but still.
I don't know about 180, but he's definitely quite a bit bulkier than 155. For sure. He looks like he's 168, 170 or so to me. Who knows, you could be right though.

EDIT:



He's well built.

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Old
03-26-2010, 11:47 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I don't know about 180, but he's definitely quite a bit bulkier than 155. For sure. He looks like he's 168, 170 or so to me. Who knows, you could be right though.

EDIT:



He's well built.
Pardon for interference.

In the picture, he looks like he's 150-155. Since he has much stronger legs, i'd say he approaches 160 or slightly more than that. Just from personal experience

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Old
03-26-2010, 11:52 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Nemchinov13 View Post
Pardon for interference.

In the picture, he looks like he's 150-155. Since he has much stronger legs, i'd say he approaches 160 or slightly more than that. Just from personal experience
Well, the picture is also two years old. He's bigger now. HUUUGE I tell ya!

You could be right, I really don't know. I'm 5'9", about 185. I know what I look like, and I'm trying to compare myself to him, heh.

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Old
03-26-2010, 11:54 AM
  #39
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I can understand an argument against signing another young defenseman to an ELC, because he could block someone like Sangs from earning a spot next season, but I have no issues with signing a skilled forward. I don't think Grachev will be ready next season so it's not like MZA would take away his spot. And if MZA doesn't make the team, we could always use some more skilled forwards in our system.

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Old
03-26-2010, 12:01 PM
  #40
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If I'm this guy I look at how Heikkinen, Ambuhl, Denisov and Demagin fared as undrafted over-age Europeans in the organization over the past two seasons, see red flags, and look elsewhere.

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Old
03-26-2010, 12:02 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Well, the picture is also two years old. He's bigger now. HUUUGE I tell ya!

You could be right, I really don't know. I'm 5'9", about 185. I know what I look like, and I'm trying to compare myself to him, heh.
ha!

Same here bro.

I'm 5'9 160, but obviously he has a better definition. He better!

Overall, I agree with Ola - he has a better chance with Detroit. Stong scandinavian presence, long history of successful development of European prospects, playmakers and winning atmosphere... God, I envy Detroit fans.

Judging from the Olympics he looks like a good player. I'd love to have him. But most likely, we won't get him.

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Old
03-26-2010, 12:08 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by squishy View Post
If I'm this guy I look at how Heikkinen, Ambuhl, Denisov and Demagin fared as undrafted over-age Europeans in the organization over the past two seasons, see red flags, and look elsewhere.
Yeah, that's a great point. Only way we get him, IMO, is if we way outbid everyone else. He's no Gilroy, he won't sign because he likes Torts and Drury.

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Old
03-26-2010, 12:20 PM
  #43
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He'd look great on that second line LW from what I saw in the Olympics and judging by his numbers in the SEL.

Plus if him and Gaborik develop some chemistry, that's the perfect, cheap option for our top line woes.

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Old
03-26-2010, 12:28 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by squishy View Post
If I'm this guy I look at how Heikkinen, Ambuhl, Denisov and Demagin fared as undrafted over-age Europeans in the organization over the past two seasons, see red flags, and look elsewhere.
bingo.

if he talks to beer, that'll end all chances of him coming here.

our track record isnt great.

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Old
03-26-2010, 12:29 PM
  #45
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This kid has speed, creativity, vision and awareness, a solid shot.

The ONLY draw back to this player is the fact that he's 5 foot nothin, and weighs 150 pounds wearing a soaking wet fur coat.

I'd still take a shot at him.

How many players do we have in the system with his skills package?

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Old
03-26-2010, 12:32 PM
  #46
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Good point Squishy. But aside from Heikk's, I don't think anyone really proved they deserve a shot with the big boys.

If Mats has confidence in himself, and really believes he can play at the NHL level, I don't think our past signings will have that much of an impact on his decision.

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03-26-2010, 12:44 PM
  #47
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Also, I don't think we should even be discussing the kid's size. Countless athletes have overcome the lack of size issue, in numerous sports.

The kid is shifty, and skates with his head up. What he gives up along the boards, he'll make up with his open ice skill.

We have a lack of skill and talent. It's no secret. Mats could be a steal. There isn't really any reason to dislike the possibility of bringing him in. As far as I'm concerned, it's a no-brainer if he wants to play here.

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Old
03-26-2010, 01:08 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squishy View Post
If I'm this guy I look at how Heikkinen, Ambuhl, Denisov and Demagin fared as undrafted over-age Europeans in the organization over the past two seasons, see red flags, and look elsewhere.
Right, cause oll of these guys were worth more of the courtesy look they got?

Out of the guys mentioned, Heikkinen is the only one that merits the sentiment put forth here.

And considering he's been in NA for just half a season he's getting the opportunity you insinuate was absent.

I'll be the first to agree to ship both Redden and Roszival out of town, but not at the expense of adding yet another inexperienced defender to the line-up.

We already have 2 Heikkinen's in the line up in Girardi and Gilroy. Two defenceman that can skate, and hold their own in the offensive zones. The difference with Gilroy is that he's more of a known entity to Torts than Heikkinen is based on previous coaching of the kid.

I mean if you want to point to someone like Heikkinen and mabe Zidlicky I can understand, but those other guys are not NHL worthy players and therefore their absence in not really missed.

This kid will have as fair a shot as any other youngster that has come up over the last few years which has actually been a very fair shot.

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Old
03-26-2010, 01:50 PM
  #49
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Right, cause oll of these guys were worth more of the courtesy look they got?
Did I say they didn't receive a fair shot? No. If you actually read what I wrote, I said nothing of the kind. I said, if I'm this guy, I look at the last four over-age Europeans who came over, see that not one of them had any success, and start wondering if all four guys -- who played in the same Olympics I did -- truly do suck, or if there are other issues involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Yeah, that's a great point. Only way we get him, IMO, is if we way outbid everyone else. He's no Gilroy, he won't sign because he likes Torts and Drury.
Let's not kid ourselves. We gave a totally unproven 25-year old rookie a $1.75m one-way contract. He's not here just because he likes Torts and Drury, no matter what he might have said.

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Old
03-26-2010, 02:05 PM
  #50
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Absolutely worth the flyer. In the Olympics he was sensational and showed he can skate with anyone and on the smaller ice surface. Sure he is small but he isnt weak on his skates like Prucha and he has great vision. this team lacks playmakers and players with skill, this would be a cheap way to increase both.

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