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Old
03-16-2010, 03:48 AM
  #101
Maverick41
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I didn't get a chance to watch any of the games lately so I just looked at the score sheets. I was pretty surprised to see Laurin Braun racking up 5 points in the last two games where he apparently played with Rankel and Pederson.
Has anyone here seen him play and can shed a little light on his performance? I was wondering if he could actually take on a bigger role in the next couple of years.

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03-17-2010, 06:45 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
farewell my friend, RIP german hockey:

http://www.spieltag58.de/
So the DEB tried once again to lower the number of foreign players allowed due to the dismal performance in Vancouver but the DEL teams made clear that they don't want this. 13 out of 15 teams opposed the notion from the DEB. Only Hamburg and Straubing agree with the DEB.

This is so frustrating.

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03-17-2010, 02:15 PM
  #103
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Obviously you can't reduce the numbers drastically, as there aren't enough good Germans to replace the foreigners, and you aren't helping the Germans by lowering the level of the league by a lot, but I really can't see why the teams don't accept a step-by-step reduction.

Of course there has to be more than that. The whole system needs an overhaul. Players aren't magically going to be better just because there are less foreigners, you need a much better focus on developing youth.

Still, a reduction is necessary, and it's simply embarassing that the teams are against it. It may be a bit hard to implement it for next season, as the teams are already quite far in their planing, but there is nothing stopping them from making changes for the future. Lower it by one every year till you arrive at six, heck, build in a break and make it 9,8,8,7,6 if needed. Everything is better than sitting around doing nothing.

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Old
03-18-2010, 02:27 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Sanderson View Post
Obviously you can't reduce the numbers drastically, as there aren't enough good Germans to replace the foreigners, and you aren't helping the Germans by lowering the level of the league by a lot, but I really can't see why the teams don't accept a step-by-step reduction.

Of course there has to be more than that. The whole system needs an overhaul. Players aren't magically going to be better just because there are less foreigners, you need a much better focus on developing youth.

Still, a reduction is necessary, and it's simply embarassing that the teams are against it. It may be a bit hard to implement it for next season, as the teams are already quite far in their planing, but there is nothing stopping them from making changes for the future. Lower it by one every year till you arrive at six, heck, build in a break and make it 9,8,8,7,6 if needed. Everything is better than sitting around doing nothing.
Very true. The redutcion that was suggested, from 12 to 8 to 6 would be tough since there are too few German players, but like you say, if they were doing it gradually it could work. That is if they would start implementing measures to improve the youth programs of the clubs and of the DEB. Also the infrastructure needs to be improved. Meaning more rinks, and we also need more and probably better coaches. And all this costs money that neither the DEB nor the teams seem to have.

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03-18-2010, 03:20 AM
  #105
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I believe that if you create the need for more german players (scarcity) the clubs will eventually have to develop more and subsequently better hockey players but that is only if you limit the option of naturalizing canadians.

many people argue that the national team is naturalizing players in order to improve - kind of like it happens in football. But it's actually the clubs reacting to the already existing scarcity.
by creating more scarcity the clubs will choose the easiest option which is naturalizing. of course the easiest option is usually not the most sustainable. It's in the nature of the clubs to think short-termed and not care about sustainability. So limiting the allowed amount of foreigners has to go along with reducing the possibility of undermining that rule by naturalizing.

I also believe that the situation of german players has improved in the last few years at least as much that there could already be a reduction to 8 foreigners without a significant loss in quality.

Of course there are many other issues that have to be adressed as well (for example rule interpretation of the referees, better coaching on the youth level, more professionalism at the DEB) but starting with just one is better than not starting at all.

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03-18-2010, 07:47 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfire View Post
I believe that if you create the need for more german players (scarcity) the clubs will eventually have to develop more and subsequently better hockey players but that is only if you limit the option of naturalizing canadians.

many people argue that the national team is naturalizing players in order to improve - kind of like it happens in football. But it's actually the clubs reacting to the already existing scarcity.
by creating more scarcity the clubs will choose the easiest option which is naturalizing. of course the easiest option is usually not the most sustainable. It's in the nature of the clubs to think short-termed and not care about sustainability. So limiting the allowed amount of foreigners has to go along with reducing the possibility of undermining that rule by naturalizing.

I also believe that the situation of german players has improved in the last few years at least as much that there could already be a reduction to 8 foreigners without a significant loss in quality.

Of course there are many other issues that have to be adressed as well (for example rule interpretation of the referees, better coaching on the youth level, more professionalism at the DEB) but starting with just one is better than not starting at all.
I agree with this entire post.

Particularly the last sentence mentions issues that are probably at the root of German ice hockey's problem with moving forward.

We shouldn't forget that both coaching and refereeing - at every level - is something that takes a certain kind of person and a asks a person to devote a lot of time to their craft, especially if they wish to do it with a certain level of quality. Both are activities that are not necessarily very well paid and neither is something you can make much of living on, in general.

In addition, ice hockey is an expensive venture. From ice to equipment to travel, it generally costs more to operate than most sports.

Fact is, until a good number of referees and coaches can be paid enough to happily support themselves and their families without having to be active in earning money elsewhere, i.e. can devote all their professional time and resources to their ice hockey duty, German ice hockey will continue to have a big problem moving up in the world.

I think the programs in Berlin, Mannheim and Cologne are pretty doggone good by German standards and of course, some traditional spots (primarily in Bavaria) do a good job with raising and training players, but until there are roughly tripple the amount of such programs or a centralized hockey internat á la the USNTDP are established, the pool of players just will not become big or competitive enough to ensure a strong German league or a regularly competitive national team.

All these things involve money.

The DEB is and always has been very involved with trying squeeze water out of stones when looking to create quality coaches and referees with their seminars.

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Old
03-18-2010, 09:09 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfire View Post
I believe that if you create the need for more german players (scarcity) the clubs will eventually have to develop more and subsequently better hockey players but that is only if you limit the option of naturalizing canadians.

many people argue that the national team is naturalizing players in order to improve - kind of like it happens in football. But it's actually the clubs reacting to the already existing scarcity.
by creating more scarcity the clubs will choose the easiest option which is naturalizing. of course the easiest option is usually not the most sustainable. It's in the nature of the clubs to think short-termed and not care about sustainability. So limiting the allowed amount of foreigners has to go along with reducing the possibility of undermining that rule by naturalizing.

I also believe that the situation of german players has improved in the last few years at least as much that there could already be a reduction to 8 foreigners without a significant loss in quality.

Of course there are many other issues that have to be adressed as well (for example rule interpretation of the referees, better coaching on the youth level, more professionalism at the DEB) but starting with just one is better than not starting at all.
The naturalizing is a very good point I hadn't even considered.

Another thing that worries me is, that a reduction of foreign players, while it may lead to more German players on the roster, it will not necessarily increase the ice time of those players, especially with the game on the line and in PP and PK situations.

But not only the clubs should give the young players more chances to prove themselves. There are quite a few rather young players out there who I'd really like to the on the national team regualarly. I'm thinking about Gawlik who is playing a great season and is still only 22 or 23 years old, I think. Other names that come to my mind: Fischer, A.Weiß, D.Weiß, Reiß, C.Braun, Hospelt, Holzer, Klinge, Ma. Müller or Flaake. Some of these guys seem to be regulars now, at least I hope they are, others should be and someone like Flaake, although he's not quite there yet, could become one of our better players in the not so distant future.

The way things are going I really hope that more young players choose to go to NA even before they are drafted like Ritter, Abeltshauser or Grubauer. Though Ritter might not be such a good example.
Kühnhackl will also play in NA next season. Guys like Rieder or Forster might take that route as well, though maybe not next season.

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Old
03-21-2010, 05:39 AM
  #108
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Kassel, Krefeld and Cologne all almost bankrupt, doesn't look good right now.

Tough times for those who don't have a rich owner who puts money into the team. Will bve interesting to see how the DEL will handle this.

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:45 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Sanderson View Post
Kassel, Krefeld and Cologne all almost bankrupt, doesn't look good right now.

Tough times for those who don't have a rich owner who puts money into the team. Will bve interesting to see how the DEL will handle this.
Not good.

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Old
03-22-2010, 03:57 PM
  #110
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huskies are saved!

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03-23-2010, 05:25 AM
  #111
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Great news for Kassel! But in my opinion, there are too many teams in the league (plus Munich next season?). I don't like that especially established teams like Cologne, Krefeld or even Kassel are struggling. But if this development continues, 2-3 teams will go bankrupt over next 2 years.

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Old
03-24-2010, 05:06 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
huskies are saved!
Not really.

For now they'll be ok, but there is still a good chance that the Huskies will go bankrupt within the next couple of years, unless they can work out a sustained strategy with more sponsors. Because Dennis Rossing made it perfectly clear, that he won't be able to save the Huskies on his own. Although he seems to be optimistic.

Hopefully the insolvency administrator they are working with can help straighten things out. It would be a shame to lose the Huskies.

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03-24-2010, 06:59 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Maverick41 View Post
Not really.

For now they'll be ok, but there is still a good chance that the Huskies will go bankrupt within the next couple of years, unless they can work out a sustained strategy with more sponsors. Because Dennis Rossing made it perfectly clear, that he won't be able to save the Huskies on his own. Although he seems to be optimistic.

Hopefully the insolvency administrator they are working with can help straighten things out. It would be a shame to lose the Huskies.
they already have the strategies and the sponsors on board. they just need to do the paper work. the voluntary bankruptcy is part of the plan. of course no club can survive when a few sponsors turn their back, but that won't happen. rossing did his homework and in 4 weeks the huskies will get a fresh start.

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Old
03-24-2010, 08:48 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
they already have the strategies and the sponsors on board. they just need to do the paper work. the voluntary bankruptcy is part of the plan. of course no club can survive when a few sponsors turn their back, but that won't happen. rossing did his homework and in 4 weeks the huskies will get a fresh start.
I'll probably won't belive it until 2 weeks after it happened. I have witnessed on too many occasions in sports and otherwise how deals like this blew up at the last moment although it was supposed to be a done deal.
But I really hope you are right, but while I trust Rossing I have trouble believing those sponsors. Keeping my fingers crossed.

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Old
03-25-2010, 06:32 PM
  #115
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Sweden just signed a new transfer agreement with the NHL....Finland already had one.....Does Germany have one currently in effect?

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Old
03-26-2010, 05:17 AM
  #116
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Sweden just signed a new transfer agreement with the NHL....Finland already had one.....Does Germany have one currently in effect?
Yes until 2011.

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03-26-2010, 12:22 PM
  #117
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Are you sure?

I was of the opinion that Germany wanted to sign the agreement, but it fell apart when the other countries didn't want to sign it, thus leaving Germany without agreement as well. I don't remember them signing an individual deal like Finland or now Sweden have.

If there had been a deal in place, Gogulla would have left earlier and Toronto would have lost the rights to Holzer by now.

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03-26-2010, 02:28 PM
  #118
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maybe spieltag58.de had a positive effect after all. Ryan (Augsburg) and Mo Müller (Köln) just had a pretty intense brawl and Piechaczek only handed out minor penalties.
or maybe it's an NHL ref wearing a Piechaczek mask

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03-26-2010, 03:01 PM
  #119
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I don't think it has much to do with that, Piechaczek does that quite often.

Some refs, like Piechaczek or Schütz, usually hand out 2+2 or 2+2+10, others still prefer the major.

Hamburg had two fights in march, both with the two refs named above. One ended with 2+2+10 against 2+2, the other with 2+2+10 for both players. Adam Henrich actually had to be brought back to the ice, as he thought he would get 5+game and left for the dressing room

The problem is that the head of refereeing is completely against fighting and hard hits, and some refs keep to that line instead of the way it is supposed to be called.

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03-26-2010, 03:13 PM
  #120
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yes. his name is Holger Gerstberger. I remember an interview with him during the Olympics where he said the hits there are "disgusting" and "nobody in germany wants to see this" while in reality all german hockey fans were rejoicing over the level of physicality there. This guy is delusional.

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03-26-2010, 04:55 PM
  #121
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Adam Henrich actually had to be brought back to the ice, as he thought he would get 5+game and left for the dressing room
he thought? he has a brain?

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Old
03-27-2010, 04:35 AM
  #122
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Well, he actually didn't do anything stupid for most of the time he was here, it only started near the end

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03-27-2010, 05:25 AM
  #123
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Quote:
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Are you sure?

I was of the opinion that Germany wanted to sign the agreement, but it fell apart when the other countries didn't want to sign it, thus leaving Germany without agreement as well. I don't remember them signing an individual deal like Finland or now Sweden have.
I have to apologize. You're right. I was in a hurry yesterday and just read the Handelsblatt which coincided with my thoughts. I did a little research now and didn't find anything conclusive which speaks in your favor.


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If there had been a deal in place, Gogulla would have left earlier and Toronto would have lost the rights to Holzer by now.
To Gogulla (I'm a season-ticket-holder in Cologne and a Sabre fan, too, so I know the situation well): He didn't want to go to Portland earlier. On the one hand money was definitely an issue because he knew that he'll earn less money in Portland and on the other hand he thought that the DEL is as good for his development as the AHL is.

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A year ago you were quoted by a German newspaper "NHL or I will not go". Did you really say it like that back then?

Yes, that's always been my philosophy. I thought to myself, why should I play in Portland? I tried to compare the leagues [AHL and DEL] a little bit. I don't know exactly, how it is over there. Of course it is a different game, but the guys, who came over here, said the DEL is a little bit better than the AHL. Plus you don't make that much money over there, you don't get a car and an apartment. Here you get all that and you make good money. Why should I go over if I'm playing for a top-notch club in Cologne and have the option to stay here?
Now I have to go over. And today it would be naïve to say, I'm not going to play in the farmteam. I absolutely expect to be in the farmteam all year. If I get the chance to get called up once in a while - say if the Sabres run into injury trouble - I would be very, very happy.
Source: Haimspiel.de

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03-27-2010, 10:50 AM
  #124
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To Gogulla (I'm a season-ticket-holder in Cologne and a Sabre fan, too, so I know the situation well): He didn't want to go to Portland earlier. On the one hand money was definitely an issue because he knew that he'll earn less money in Portland and on the other hand he thought that the DEL is as good for his development as the AHL is.
Actually, before he rejected Buffalo's first offer because it was too low (only to sign a few days later), he had planned to make the move to North America. Only the lowball offer by the Sabres changed his mind.

But that's not the point I was trying to make. If a transfer-agreement had been in place, and Gogulla had signed a deal with Buffalo, his contract in Cologne would have been automatically voided. It would have been Buffalo's choice to assign him wherever they wanted to.

They may have decided to let him play in Germany for another season or two, if that's what Gogulla had wanted, but it would have been their decision, not Cologne/Gogulla's.

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Old
03-27-2010, 03:02 PM
  #125
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I need a little help, I'm trying to figure out when Kölner Haie will play at home IF they advance from the "pre-playoff" (game 3 tomorrow).

The reason I ask is that I'll be in the area next week, and I would really like to see a game at the amazing LANXESS arena in Cologne. I'm already going to the DEG Metro Stars game on April 1st in Düsseldorf.

I can't find any information about possible dates on DEL.org, it's not shown in the "spielplan". Does anyone know?

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