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Old
03-26-2010, 03:21 PM
  #76
eXile59
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There is no way he gets 4 million. He should feel lucky if he gets 3.5 given what other players of his caliber make.

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03-26-2010, 03:55 PM
  #77
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Trust me, there are others here who do not agree with you on that. Maintain a low profile.

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03-26-2010, 04:06 PM
  #78
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I guess I could see the Pens giving him 4 if the companies that own the signs on end boards chip in about 500k to 1 million of Letang's annual salary in exchange for Letang promoting their companies by hitting their signs with his countless amount of shots that miss the net every year.

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03-26-2010, 08:40 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by WVP View Post
Bruins are in excellent shape moving forward and adding a top 2 and 12-13 pick is going to really solidify things. Add Hall/Seguin to Rask, Savard, Krejci, Lucic, Wheeler plus Colborne eventually. Hall would be a perfect fit for that team with Savard/Krejci/Colborne down the middle.

Plus they have 19.75 coming off the books after next season (Chara, Bergeron, Ryder, Sturm) and can probably sign whatever #1 defenseman they want. Having an expensive Tim Thomas as their backup is the only hiccup.
Getting the #2 or #3 overall pick is going to be nice, but Chiarelli isn't doing the Bruins any favors with the deals he gave Lucic and Ference. I'm not sure how great Boston's future is. My hunch is that they'll continue to be mediocre, but squeek into the playoffs due to the relative weakness of the East. If whoever they draft with Toronto's pick turns out to be a franchise player I'll take that back, but there is a lot of uncertainty in Boston's future.

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03-26-2010, 10:20 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Getting the #2 or #3 overall pick is going to be nice, but Chiarelli isn't doing the Bruins any favors with the deals he gave Lucic and Ference.
...and you can add Thomas, Ryder and Wideman to that.
Some guys will need to get moved, but certainly Boston could/should remain a good team (injuries really did them in this season). Just not a team I fear in the future as regards being a big-time rival for the Pens.

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03-26-2010, 11:25 PM
  #81
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You dont think they'll keep Bergeron?

Imagine the draft they would have if they missed the playoffs too. Yikes.
I dont think theres any way that Bergeron or Chara are gone. If one is gone though I think Bergeron. Chara is just to important to the team.

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03-26-2010, 11:53 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Goalie_Bob View Post
Shero has all the power right now. Letang's only recourse is to hold out. And he can only do that for so long. .
why wouldn't he be able to negotiate with other teams?

he is a free agent.

restricted gives us the right to match/keep him

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Old
03-27-2010, 12:18 AM
  #83
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If Letang's camp is refusing the 3.5m/yr deal, I have a feeling if a team sends him an offer sheet that pays him the money he wants, he'll sign it hoping Ray Shero matches, at that point, would any of us want Ray to match that offer?

I'd be tempted to take the picks and let the team over pay him. I have a feeling once the playoffs are over, Ray will talk to his camp and if they can't work out a deal before July 1st, he'll be traded and another team will have his rights while Shero gets something in return rather than a bunch of picks that might not really help a team that is looking to contend every year. His back-up move would be to re-sign Gonchar but if Sarge wants that 3-4yr deal, I'd rather Ray went after Volchenkov and kept Leopold and Eaton around with Orpik, Goligoski and I guess, Lovejoy.

I hate how much power the players have sometimes, with their contract negotiations, no way in hell do I think Gonchar deserves more than 2yrs, at his age, he's a risk player. If he declines or gets hurt often, the team is then stuck with his contract, him on the IR and the inability to pick up another player. I'd rather have a player that won't handcuff the team. With or without Gonchar, the powerplay hasn't looked consistently decent anyways, I'd rather see Geno and Gogo at the point than dump 4m+ at a guy that is getting up there in age and might hurt the team from signing a better top 6 winger (Zherdev, thank you).

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03-27-2010, 07:33 AM
  #84
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I still would be shocked if the original report were true. There is NO team that will sign Letang to an offer sheet that will cost them over $3.5million/yr cap space, plus give up a 1st and a 3rd. It simply will never happen.

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03-27-2010, 07:35 AM
  #85
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This isn't the first time I've heard of his camp reportedly turning down a 3.5m/yr deal. So who knows if it's 100% legit or not, I've heard it before and now I am hearing it again so maybe there is some truth to it.

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03-27-2010, 08:56 AM
  #86
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It's possible that he turned down $3.5million/yr, I guess, although we don't know the details. Lots of stuff happens during negotiations.

I'm just saying that $3.5million/yr, plus a first and a third, for an inconsistent guy like Letang is not going to happen. Something like that hasn't happened with any player yet, at least not a young defenseman, that I can recall.

I'm sure RS would rather have Letang at a reasonable amount, but if he had to I bet he'd take the cap space and the picks rather than match the offer.

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03-27-2010, 09:01 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt Zapp Brannigan View Post
If Letang's camp is refusing the 3.5m/yr deal, I have a feeling if a team sends him an offer sheet that pays him the money he wants, he'll sign it hoping Ray Shero matches, at that point, would any of us want Ray to match that offer?

I'd be tempted to take the picks and let the team over pay him. I have a feeling once the playoffs are over, Ray will talk to his camp and if they can't work out a deal before July 1st, he'll be traded and another team will have his rights while Shero gets something in return rather than a bunch of picks that might not really help a team that is looking to contend every year. His back-up move would be to re-sign Gonchar but if Sarge wants that 3-4yr deal, I'd rather Ray went after Volchenkov and kept Leopold and Eaton around with Orpik, Goligoski and I guess, Lovejoy.

I hate how much power the players have sometimes, with their contract negotiations, no way in hell do I think Gonchar deserves more than 2yrs, at his age, he's a risk player. If he declines or gets hurt often, the team is then stuck with his contract, him on the IR and the inability to pick up another player. I'd rather have a player that won't handcuff the team. With or without Gonchar, the powerplay hasn't looked consistently decent anyways, I'd rather see Geno and Gogo at the point than dump 4m+ at a guy that is getting up there in age and might hurt the team from signing a better top 6 winger (Zherdev, thank you).
This is the way I'm starting to feel. The powerplay has sucked all year and maybe it's time Shero implodes the defense and starts looking for new guys.

If Letang wants more then 3.5M then maybe we should trade him away for a guy(s) that will fit what we are looking for. Or let someone throw an insane contract at him and take the picks. Either way, maybe Letang is not going to fit into the puzzle after this season. And if Gonchar, who is injured about 25% of the year nowadays, wants more then 2yrs... bye bye.

Bottom line, Shero has to do what he thinks is right for this team and I have a feeling signing Letang to 4+M deal is not what he has in mind.

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Old
03-27-2010, 11:39 AM
  #88
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Man, the way some people are talking, it's like there's never ANY negotiation on any contract in the NHL. Are people really that naive? The two sides are gonna haggle like two old ladies in a Turkish marketplace.

And for the matter, the rumor has no information on length, any other applicable clauses, or even any information on what the Pens' brass didn't like about the offer.

In short :

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03-27-2010, 11:02 PM
  #89
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He's only 22 years old.

The question is if the Pens organization believes if he has more upside and where is his development going. He has the skills to eventually be a Gonch replacement....the signs are there, but there are some details he has to work on (aka shot, faster passes on the PP).

A twist is that this year he has developed his D side quite a bit...pretty impressive that he's considered part of the shutdown duo on the Pens. He doesn't really look that big, but at 6' 200lbs, he isn't exactly small....and he could potentially put on 10-15 lbs.

I don't think Letang is stupid and thinks he can cash-out now....I see him staying with the Pens at this stage.

He's probably looking for a $3.5M - 4 year deal, and the Pens want to lock him at $3M over 4. I bet he'd take $3M at 2 years, and I'd be happy with that.

Just speculation on my part.

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03-27-2010, 11:55 PM
  #90
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I would think that the sticking point for the contract is what he is at the end of the contract. Shero probably wants to sign him to the max he could to still ensure that Letang would be a RFA at the end of his deal (much like Goligoski), but Letang wants that 1 extra year at the same rate so he can walk at the end.

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03-28-2010, 09:52 AM
  #91
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Hah, I remember that. And that was before the NHL really started keeping good hit stats, so he couldn't even point to those and say "look, this is what I do, and I'm good at it!"

And, as I brought up in another thread, I think there's a lot more $4 million or more can bring us in terms of the blueline. If Letang really is set on getting that much or more, he's probably not going to get it here.

I'd rather take that $4 million and use that plus some money scrimped from other parts of the roster to pull in someone more established in the top 4 role, like Volchenkov.
Not me, Letang is only 22 years old and still can get much better. Most Dmen are not even in the NHL at that age and don't reach their potential until around 26.

I really believe we could be kicking ourselves if we let Letang go for a 1st and a 3rd. Unless that pick is a top 5 overall and we are assured some stud draft pick I think that would be a mistake. Also, for a team that is trying to win it all each year it still is not worth it to me. Gonchar could be gone this summer and we need Letang and Gogo's offensive production if that happens. Volchenkov is a very good defensive dman and I would love to have him but I don't think we would have enough offensive punch coming from that blue line.

Do you really want to go into next season without Gonchar and Letang next season. Lets just say we resign Leopold, I still don't think that is enough offensive skill in the back end. Letang is one of our best in his own end and he is only 22 years old and his offensive abilities are pretty easy to see. I believe Letang will be a 50+ point dmen in the near future and if Gonchar leaves I believe it could happen next season. I would like to have Letang and Gogo as our #1 PP dmen for the long term. We need to keep our young core and not delute from the core.

We gave Whitney a 5 year $4 million a year deal and while he had that one good offensive year his defensive skills were below average. Letang is not worth that much yet but for a long term deal I can't see him taking less than that. His D is pretty good now at 22 and if he does start putting up high 40's/low 50's he would be under paid for that production. No way he locks himself up for that many years for less than that. Whitney proved to not be worth it because he stopped developing and the same could happen to Letang. When you want to sign a player not in his prime yet to a long term deal it has to be on future projected abilities and not on present day output. Letang would be a fool to sign a long term deal at this point for what he is worth at present day.

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03-28-2010, 10:02 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I would think that the sticking point for the contract is what he is at the end of the contract. Shero probably wants to sign him to the max he could to still ensure that Letang would be a RFA at the end of his deal (much like Goligoski), but Letang wants that 1 extra year at the same rate so he can walk at the end.
No way Shero could do that. I would rather have a short term deal and see what he is worth in 2 years before I would do that. If it is a long term deal it has to go past his RFA years.

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03-28-2010, 10:08 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
There is no way he gets 4 million. He should feel lucky if he gets 3.5 given what other players of his caliber make.
Maybe on a 2 year deal you could get that price but if you think a 22 year old dman with his skills would sign for less than $4 million a year for 5 years you don't know much about how contracts work. If Gonchar leaves Letang would be full time on the #1 PP all the time and his #'s would increase big time with that. Letang could very easily be in the 40's and even low 50's next season with that #1 PP duty if Gonchar exits and he still is not in his prime yet. His agent would have to be a num nut to let him sign a long term deal under $4 million a year.

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03-28-2010, 10:36 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
Maybe on a 2 year deal you could get that price but if you think a 22 year old dman with his skills would sign for less than $4 million a year for 5 years you don't know much about how contracts work. If Gonchar leaves Letang would be full time on the #1 PP all the time and his #'s would increase big time with that. Letang could very easily be in the 40's and even low 50's next season with that #1 PP duty if Gonchar exits and he still is not in his prime yet. His agent would have to be a num nut to let him sign a long term deal under $4 million a year.
One of the problems with that is Letang shoots right and plays on the left side. Our PP favors the right hence Gogo has to be the replacement for Sarge. Sure Letang will get the PP time, but he probably won't get the puck very much....unless he can get his one timer to be Ovechkin like.

So Staal got 4M for 4 years. Is Letang worth that?

He clearly is considered valuable as he is on the #1 pairing. Orpik has what..a $3.5M deal?

One other factor is I'm sure Letang realizes that he still needs to develop....ending up on a different team where the whole bowl of wax is on his shoulders...dunno.

Sarge re-signing or not will probably affect Letang's salary.

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03-28-2010, 10:41 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
No way Shero could do that. I would rather have a short term deal and see what he is worth in 2 years before I would do that. If it is a long term deal it has to go past his RFA years.
Then there is probably no way Letang signs. It's not an all or nothing deal. Maybe Letang gets that extra year so he's a UFA, but he has to leave some money on the table. I don't know.

They call these things negotiations for a reason.

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03-28-2010, 11:31 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
Maybe on a 2 year deal you could get that price but if you think a 22 year old dman with his skills would sign for less than $4 million a year for 5 years you don't know much about how contracts work. If Gonchar leaves Letang would be full time on the #1 PP all the time and his #'s would increase big time with that. Letang could very easily be in the 40's and even low 50's next season with that #1 PP duty if Gonchar exits and he still is not in his prime yet. His agent would have to be a num nut to let him sign a long term deal under $4 million a year.
Going into yesterday's game, Letang didn't have a PP point in the last 20 or so games. Just saying. It would be tough for his agent to argue that he's a future lynchpin of the power play. So far, in his entire career, he has a total of 27 power play points. This season, he has a measly 5.

If he's the PP specialist of the future, they are in big trouble.

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03-28-2010, 01:07 PM
  #97
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Going into yesterday's game, Letang didn't have a PP point in the last 20 or so games. Just saying. It would be tough for his agent to argue that he's a future lynchpin of the power play. So far, in his entire career, he has a total of 27 power play points. This season, he has a measly 5.

If he's the PP specialist of the future, they are in big trouble.
With Gonchar here Letang of course did not get PP points. If Gonchar leaves then Letang and Gogo will be the point men on the #1 PP. You make my point for me by showing his lack of points to date. No doubt Letang will add 15-20 points with being full time on the Pens #1 PP. As long as Gonchar is here the Pens run the PP around him and rightfully so. I believe that won't be the case with Gogo and both pointmen will be more equally involved.

I have seen enough of Letang's offensive abilities to know he can become a 45-55 point a year dman in his prime. Letang's defensive improvements from last year to this year was very easy to see and he has the skills to get much better in the offensive zone.

You won't be able to sign a 22 year old dman who is playing with Orpik on the top unit now for anything less. I would be thrilled if we could lock Letang up for a 5 year $20 million dollar deal. Letang could be worth much more than that in just a year or two if Gonchar leaves. Yes, it is always a gamble to sign a player not in his prime to what they might project to be but Letang has shown me enough to take that gamble. We will find out if Shero has seen enough to believe the same. I think Letang is better than some dman that are getting paid that right now. I believe the pairing of Orpik and Letang can be the Pens top D unit for the next 5+ years.

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03-28-2010, 01:44 PM
  #98
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I would like for you to be right, but I don't see it. I'd rather pay more, for a sure thing, than wind up paying too much for too little return.

It's going to be interesting to see how this all turns out, but I think if he's making $3.5million next year it won't be here.

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03-28-2010, 03:15 PM
  #99
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I hope Letang comes to his senses and realizes what a great future he could have here. I like his potential but that's all it is, potential. The kid had one great playoff run but other than that has been incapable of stepping up every time Gonchar was out. Does anyone believe Letang is worth more than twice of what Goligoski makes? I don't want to overpay him just so he can bolt as UFA once he really hits his prime. These are still development years, and should be paid accordingly.

He's a RFA with no arbitration rights so he has no leverage. If Letang really insists on getting more than 3.5 million, I want Shero to play hardball with him. Let him wait all summer, threaten to barr him from camp, make sure that he realizes that if he's not signed before December 1st he will miss the entire season. If someone else wants to overpay him, accept the offer sheet, take the picks and use the cap space. Tell him to have fun with the Panthers or BJs and remind him to buy a Center Ice package so he can watch the playoffs.

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03-28-2010, 03:27 PM
  #100
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I hope Letang comes to his senses and realizes what a great future he could have here. I like his potential but that's all it is, potential. The kid had one great playoff run but other than that has been incapable of stepping up every time Gonchar was out. Does anyone believe Letang is worth more than twice of what Goligoski makes? I don't want to overpay him just so he can bolt as UFA once he really hits his prime. These are still development years, and should be paid accordingly.

He's a RFA with no arbitration rights so he has no leverage. If Letang really insists on getting more than 3.5 million, I want Shero to play hardball with him. Let him wait all summer, threaten to barr him from camp, make sure that he realizes that if he's not signed before December 1st he will miss the entire season. If someone else wants to overpay him, accept the offer sheet, take the picks and use the cap space. Tell him to have fun with the Panthers or BJs and remind him to buy a Center Ice package so he can watch the playoffs.
I have maintained that he is worth 2.5M-3M over a 3-4 year contract. But I also never thing he will become a "Gonchar". I think he will continue to become stronger defensively and hammer down a fairly consistent and stronger offensive side. But I think where Letang will end up is pretty much a all around player. He will neither be an ace in the hole offensive defenseman or a defensive one. He will be able to do everything very well but nothing great.

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