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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Part II. Potential owners of NHL's Phoenix Coyotes

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Old
03-26-2010, 07:30 AM
  #976
ps241
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Thanx. Seems you actually do have some common sense after all.
well my wife would disagree with you but at least i have 1 vote now!!

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The guys' a Goober of imaginable magnitude. Try reading his book. Insane.
yes another Hater....oh well remember the three phases anyone faces when eventually closing a long shot.....whether it be an innovation or in this case a relo to a place like the peg.........#1 at first ridiclue.....#2 then debate.....#3 then self evidence (know one remembers they were at stage 1 )

I am still waiting to hear something from the CoG.....not sure why they are so silent right now.....does anyone know if they are suppose to table any proposals or have any kind of a vote? for those of you who are from Phoenix what is your take here? everyone is writing IEH's obit but we have not heard they are out officially? Also we have not heard Reinsdorf is back in officially yet?

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03-26-2010, 08:49 AM
  #977
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You mean like the can of worms that existed when Disney owned both ABC/ESPN _and_ the NHL team in Anaheim?
A different dynamic. the CBC has Hockety Night In Canada and Don Cherry up here which draws huge numbers.

This would further heat up broadcasting competition in Canada.

I remember reading an argument against a Hamilton franchise being that the 6 Canadian teams didn't want to split TV revenue with a 7th Canadian team. I wonder if the prospect of Thomson getting involved with a Winnipeg team, and the prospect of QC coming back in the league would alter the Canadian NHL broadcast scene and if it would have any implications for a southern Ontario team.

I know, I know. Lots of speculation here.

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03-26-2010, 10:00 AM
  #978
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A different dynamic. the CBC has Hockety Night In Canada and Don Cherry up here which draws huge numbers.

This would further heat up broadcasting competition in Canada.

I remember reading an argument against a Hamilton franchise being that the 6 Canadian teams didn't want to split TV revenue with a 7th Canadian team. I wonder if the prospect of Thomson getting involved with a Winnipeg team, and the prospect of QC coming back in the league would alter the Canadian NHL broadcast scene and if it would have any implications for a southern Ontario team.

I know, I know. Lots of speculation here.
National television money is split amongst all 30 teams, teams only keep their regional television money- thus the problem of any team in S Ontario- Leafs would feel competition for regional games would drive down the money they accrue ( Leaf TV revenue pegged at an estimated $40- 45 million per year)

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03-26-2010, 10:06 AM
  #979
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I'm not sure how HNIC revenue is split, nor how regional TV revenue works in southern ontario, but with TSN and sportsnet here there are all kinds of non-Leaf games available for free already.

I also remember part of the rumoured deal Balisllie was trying to broker with the Leafs during the Preds' situation included giving/selling TV rights for the Hamilton team to LeafsTV, MLSE's cable channel, and also the management of Copps Coliseum and other Hamilton entertainment venues that would have fallen under JB's controlas a result of his deal with the city of Hamilton.

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03-26-2010, 10:10 AM
  #980
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I'm not sure how HNIC revenue is split, nor how regional TV revenue works in southern ontario, but with TSN and sportsnet here there are all kinds of non-Leaf games available for free already.
TSN has a national tv contract with the NHL- Wednesday night usually features a doubleheader, they usually pick up the Monday night Versus game- Sportsnet has regional contracts with the Sens, Flames, Oilers and Canucks- RDS has a national contract for Habs games on Saturday night and is their regional carrier on non Saturday games. Leafs have regional games on TSN, Sportsnet and their own Leafs TV. The national games are paid into a pool that the 30 teams distribute evenly, the regional games stay with the team who sold the rights to show that game.

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03-26-2010, 10:12 AM
  #981
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I'm not sure how HNIC revenue is split, nor how regional TV revenue works in southern ontario, but with TSN and sportsnet here there are all kinds of non-Leaf games available for free already.

I also remember part of the rumoured deal Balisllie was trying to broker with the Leafs during the Preds' situation included giving/selling TV rights for the Hamilton team to LeafsTV, MLSE's cable channel, and also the management of Copps Coliseum and other Hamilton entertainment venues that would have fallen under JB's controlas a result of his deal with the city of Hamilton.

Speculation only- as you can see from the amount of money the Leafs make, tv and radio revenue in S Ontario would be quite substantial coin for any team

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03-26-2010, 10:23 AM
  #982
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Well yeah, that's why I used the word 'rumoured".

But it's understandable that this is all based on the whole premise of "greatest hockey market in the world" approach in which even more money can be made.

Thanks for the clarification re: Canadian TV revenue. Very interesting stuff.

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03-26-2010, 11:59 AM
  #983
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well my wife would disagree with you but at least i have 1 vote now!! yes another Hater....oh well remember the three phases anyone faces when eventually closing a long shot.....whether it be an innovation or in this case a relo to a place like the peg.........#1 at first ridiclue.....#2 then debate.....#3 then self evidence (know one remembers they were at stage 1 ) I am still waiting to hear something from the CoG.....not sure why they are so silent right now.....does anyone know if they are suppose to table any proposals or have any kind of a vote? for those of you who are from Phoenix what is your take here? everyone is writing IEH's obit but we have not heard they are out officially? Also we have not heard Reinsdorf is back in officially yet?
Very amusing PS, but "hate" is an awfully strong word. I dont hate Mcown, I find him amusing in a Torontocentric sardonic kind of way. Hard not to like the guy though their are many here who will disagree. I'm guessing theirs' a gag order with the COG & the NHL & IEH/Reinsdorf until after the Playoffs' , so we might not know the true status of anything until mid-June. A last minute 11th hour deal, relocation, or another season of league ownership to extend the bidders time to close?. Who knows....

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03-26-2010, 01:36 PM
  #984
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Very amusing PS, but "hate" is an awfully strong word. I dont hate Mcown, I find him amusing in a Torontocentric sardonic kind of way. Hard not to like the guy though their are many here who will disagree. I'm guessing theirs' a gag order with the COG & the NHL & IEH/Reinsdorf until after the Playoffs' , so we might not know the true status of anything until mid-June. A last minute 11th hour deal, relocation, or another season of league ownership to extend the bidders time to close?. Who knows....
yea you nailed it......really until the NHL makes an announcement almost everything is speculation.....makes for great reading and soap opera type drama but we might be waiting months to get any official word

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03-26-2010, 11:17 PM
  #985
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More information on Reinsdorf's interest in the Coyotes. Apparently his partner Kaites is presenting a plan to state lawmakers for a tax district to help facilitate his purchase of the team.

Reinsdorf is opposing a bill that would create tax districts to help the construction of a new stadium for the Cubs.

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoen...l?jst=pn_pn_lk

For some reason, I can read the entire article on my Blackberry, but when accessing on my pc, it says I need to login. A few interesting pieces from the rest of the article:

AZ House Majority Leader John McComish is the main sponsor of the current bill. He says Kaites has been pushing his and Reinsdorfs plan aggressively.

Kaites and Reinsdorf met with COG City Manager Ed Beasley and other COG officials about a potential Coyotes purchase and lease deal.

Steve Ellman has been involved in the discussions.

In an interview last week Kaites said he knows exactly how the hockey saga is going to end, but would not elaborate.

The tax districts concept is back by Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon.

The plan will face political resistance and possible legal challenges.

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03-26-2010, 11:31 PM
  #986
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Reinsdorf opposes a state plan to assess an 8 percent fee on all Cactus League game tickets to help fund construction of an $84 million Cubs stadium in Mesa.
Wow, the man has balls. It just might work. If he has the house majority leader on his side and the mayor, it might pass. Who knows if it would stand up in court but it's the only option here.

I guess Jerry, Kaites and Beasley are the real reason there is no news with regards to Ice Edge

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03-26-2010, 11:38 PM
  #987
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Check out the other articles in the margins of Art's citation:

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoen...5/daily27.html

Mesa may have to face Goldwater.

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoen...1/daily39.html

Cardinals win a state issued concession right for the stadium.


Does the state of Arizona [or Phx area cities] really have all this money to give to all these teams?

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03-26-2010, 11:38 PM
  #988
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yea you nailed it......really until the NHL makes an announcement almost everything is speculation.....makes for great reading and soap opera type drama but we might be waiting months to get any official word
Things seem to be picking up a bit in this story. Is it possible that a second year of playoffs will have some of the spotlight stolen by the Phoenix Coyotes bankruptcy/ownership issue?!?

I still can't buy into the Reinsdorf thing....he pulled the 'chute far too quickly for a serious interest and didn't return quick enough. Which makes me wonder if he is yet again doing a favour for the league.

I can't imagine what this must be like for Coyotes fans...I guess it really would make every game important...you never know how many might be left. But, even I'm getting sick of this story. Just sell the team already...to whoever...get it done..move it or keep it there whatever ya gotta do. Just end this already....

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03-26-2010, 11:49 PM
  #989
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This is going to be interesting to see how this plays out. Reinsdorf has some pretty serious backing here...

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03-26-2010, 11:52 PM
  #990
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Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf could parlay his opposition to a stadium financing plan for the rival Chicago Cubs into the creation of a special tax district around Jobing.com Arena in Glendale
Can someone explain this to me? I fail to see what Reinsdorf opposing the tax district for a new stadium for the Cubs in Illinois has any relevance to what is happening in the Coyotes situation in Arizona. Wouldn't it hurt his chances of getting the tax district, if anything?

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03-26-2010, 11:54 PM
  #991
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Can someone explain this to me? I fail to see what Reinsdorf opposing the tax district for a new stadium for the Cubs in Illinois has any relevance to what is happening in the Coyotes situation in Arizona. Wouldn't it hurt his chances of getting the tax district, if anything?
Leverage. He agrees to back their effort in return for them helping him.

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03-27-2010, 12:08 AM
  #992
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Can someone explain this to me? I fail to see what Reinsdorf opposing the tax district for a new stadium for the Cubs in Illinois has any relevance to what is happening in the Coyotes situation in Arizona. Wouldn't it hurt his chances of getting the tax district, if anything?
It's not a new stadium for the Cubs in Illinois; it's a new spring training stadium for the Cubs in Mesa, AZ.

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03-27-2010, 12:27 AM
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^If true, very smart on Reinsdorf's part to help Glendale keep the Coyotes while helping out Mesa get a new facility for the Cubs. That works out pretty well don't you think?

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03-27-2010, 12:29 AM
  #994
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^If true, very smart on Reinsdorf's part to help Glendale keep the Coyotes while helping out Mesa get a new facility for the Cubs. That works out pretty well don't you think?
I'd say that heavily depends on how the support for the Coyotes changes.

Remember...Reinsdorf wanted concessions and an escape clause. This could be a band-aid for the league, no?

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03-27-2010, 01:30 AM
  #995
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Does the state of Arizona [or Phx area cities] really have all this money to give to all these teams?
Yes, but what is being discussed is a new tax so therefore the city is not really giving anything up. Arizona makes a ton of money off of tourism and if I remember right most of the Cardinals stadium was financed with that money.

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03-27-2010, 01:43 AM
  #996
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Can someone explain this to me? I fail to see what Reinsdorf opposing the tax district for a new stadium for the Cubs in Illinois has any relevance to what is happening in the Coyotes situation in Arizona. Wouldn't it hurt his chances of getting the tax district, if anything?
The Cubs stadium being referred to is for their spring training facility in Mesa, AZ.

Currently most of the MLB teams with spring training programs in Phoenix are against having their gate receipts taxed just so that the Cubs can get a new stadium. IIRC.... Reinsdorf appearantly would change his opposition if he can get a similar district set up for Westgate to benefit Glendale and the Coyotes.

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03-27-2010, 01:46 AM
  #997
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Yes, but what is being discussed is a new tax so therefore the city is not really giving anything up. Arizona makes a ton of money off of tourism and if I remember right most of the Cardinals stadium was financed with that money.
Correct.... most of the money came from additional taxes tacked onto car rentals at Sky Harbor Intl. Airport.

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03-27-2010, 09:35 AM
  #998
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Whats' the likelihood of this getting passed, if at all, and what the time-line might be for it to be documented, made public, I'd assume debated & then put to a vote barring any serious legal challenges, and, how does this differ from the bill that was proposed in February, minus Kaites/Reinsdorfs' influence & leverage that was quickly dropped?. Sorry, so many questions, so little time!...

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03-27-2010, 01:01 PM
  #999
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Yes, but what is being discussed is a new tax so therefore the city is not really giving anything up. Arizona makes a ton of money off of tourism and if I remember right most of the Cardinals stadium was financed with that money.

I always thought of Arizona as fiscally conservative, so adding taxes for new ventures when some communities have existing budget deficits just doesn't add up. I will say that I'm not familiar with the budget situation for Mesa or the surrounding municipalities, while COG's has been mentioned at ~$14m, iirc.

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03-27-2010, 01:04 PM
  #1000
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I think I will shut this down and copy over Art's most recent entry with the Phx Biz journal links.

It's about to reach the 1K thread size limit.

Part III:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=755553

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