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Luukko: Holmgren's job safe, even if no playoffs

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Old
03-27-2010, 10:08 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Huh? You've harped on the dime a dozen goalie stat repeatedly despite Boucher absolutely boning us since he became the starter.

This team was supposed to be a Cup contender and is not largely due to the failures of 1 man.

It's a borderline playoff team and you think you've somehow been proven correct because a Flyers executive (the team that's been failing for 35 years straight) has given a statement of support to the GM?

What kind of standards of success do you usually have?
like i said it is team speak. lukko will not say anythign of any value. snider already said this tema better make the playoffs. There iwll be chnages and i think shooter will be canned as he created this mess and he has shown no signs of getting even remotely out of it. Has GKJ has said, he fired his own son and wanna be son. You dont thinkhe will fire shooter? Please.

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03-27-2010, 10:16 AM
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man, they are just so delusional about the state of this franchise.

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03-27-2010, 10:18 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Huh? You've harped on the dime a dozen goalie stat repeatedly despite Boucher absolutely boning us since he became the starter.

This team was supposed to be a Cup contender and is not largely due to the failures of 1 man.

It's a borderline playoff team and you think you've somehow been proven correct because a Flyers executive (the team that's been failing for 35 years straight) has given a statement of support to the GM?

What kind of standards of success do you usually have?
Standards for success? My standard for success is a GM that puts us in a position to win year in and year out, because in the world of professional sports that's the most you can ask for.

Everyone here chirps so much about how they hold winning in the highest regard. That's Holmgren's job. His focus should be winning the Cup. In the end, that's what will keep us competitive. That's what will give us a chance every year.

The reality of the Stanley Cup is that it's nearly impossible to obtain. To get a good seed you have to be virtually injury free. Then you have to try not to be upset by a hot team riding up because of an injured player returning or some deadline moves. Then you have to beat other good teams just like you who have had good luck all year.

I hate to say this boils down to luck, but that's a real major factor in the whole thing.

I don't want your freaking "window." Holmgren doesn't give us a window of 4-5 years.

Holmgren is a General Manager that corrects his mistakes. That kind of GM gives us a long-term window, especially with the young core we have and the organization's reputation as one of the best drafting franchises in NHL history.

I want a good GM who employs good scouts, is a good scout himself, is a presence in the locker room, is involved in the overall atmosphere of the organization, and corrects his mistakes, because I have news for everyone in here. Every GM is going to make mistakes.

What, now you want Burke? So obsessed with playing physically to intimidate teams that he forgets everything else? You want Lou? An old man who has done great things for his organization but is still so loyal, much like Holmgren, that he will take a huge leap of faith with a guy like Rolston?

No world is perfect, and Holmgren doesn't give us a window. If you want your 4-5 year window then move to Pittsburgh. I'll stay where a GM will force this team to stay competitive.

I promise you, if you pick a GM with a 4-5 year window he will fail nine times out of ten regardless of team he has on the ice.

The grass is always greener with you people, and I wish some of you would seriously come to terms with reality.

This is no longer about my philosophies on goaltending or my evaluations of our players/prospects. This is about our organization moving forward. Every organization has severe flaws, but I'll be more than happy to take Holmgren's flaws if it means a chance to win year in and year out.

Do some of you not remember 06-07? How many of those do you want in between every 5 year shot at a Championship? When you think about then you can respond to me.

EDIT: By the way. Everyone here seems to want change right? What happens when that change doesn't work out like you planned? You're willing to toss a good GM on the curb just to fulfill your ever-changing and broad sense of justice? Absolutely ridiculous.


Last edited by CS: 03-27-2010 at 10:23 AM.
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03-27-2010, 10:35 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Standards for success? My standard for success is a GM that puts us in a position to win year in and year out, because in the world of professional sports that's the most you can ask for.

Everyone here chirps so much about how they hold winning in the highest regard. That's Holmgren's job. His focus should be winning the Cup. In the end, that's what will keep us competitive. That's what will give us a chance every year.

The reality of the Stanley Cup is that it's nearly impossible to obtain. To get a good seed you have to be virtually injury free. Then you have to try not to be upset by a hot team riding up because of an injured player returning or some deadline moves. Then you have to beat other good teams just like you who have had good luck all year.

I hate to say this boils down to luck, but that's a real major factor in the whole thing.

I don't want your freaking "window." Holmgren doesn't give us a window of 4-5 years.

Holmgren is a General Manager that corrects his mistakes. That kind of GM gives us a long-term window, especially with the young core we have and the organization's reputation as one of the best drafting franchises in NHL history.

I want a good GM who employs good scouts, is a good scout himself, is a presence in the locker room, is involved in the overall atmosphere of the organization, and corrects his mistakes, because I have news for everyone in here. Every GM is going to make mistakes.

What, now you want Burke? So obsessed with playing physically to intimidate teams that he forgets everything else? You want Lou? An old man who has done great things for his organization but is still so loyal, much like Holmgren, that he will take a huge leap of faith with a guy like Rolston?

No world is perfect, and Holmgren doesn't give us a window. If you want your 4-5 year window then move to Pittsburgh. I'll stay where a GM will force this team to stay competitive.

I promise you, if you pick a GM with a 4-5 year window he will fail nine times out of ten regardless of team he has on the ice.

The grass is always greener with you people, and I wish some of you would seriously come to terms with reality.

This is no longer about my philosophies on goaltending or my evaluations of our players/prospects. This is about our organization moving forward. Every organization has severe flaws, but I'll be more than happy to take Holmgren's flaws if it means a chance to win year in and year out.

Do some of you not remember 06-07? How many of those do you want in between every 5 year shot at a Championship? When you think about then you can respond to me.

EDIT: By the way. Everyone here seems to want change right? What happens when that change doesn't work out like you planned? You're willing to toss a good GM on the curb just to fulfill your ever-changing and broad sense of justice? Absolutely ridiculous.
The overly optimistic one speaks again. Yes i am willing to toss an avg gm to the curb. Reagrdless of the results of the next gm, shooter needs to go. You should be a sabres fan, they contend every year right? Unlike you i am tired of being competitve, and what is that really. How many 1st roundplayoff exits do the flyers have over the last 15 years? I want to win the cup. This gm has proven he is incapable of providing that. He has no plan, neither short nor long. Take your injuires and luck excuses and stick them up your sphincter. He corrects his mistakes, really. That is funny as hell to read. I guess your will say the eminger trade. Yeah he really corrected that mistake lol. If you think the pens have only a 4 year window, that clearly shows your ignorance their chief. To even compare the 2 teams is an insult to the pens sadly. The gm will force this team to be competitive. What a crock of ****. Barely making the playoffs and 1st round exits, that is what i want my gm to strive for. Well you can accept homers flaws and be int he same position year after year until he is gone. You enjoy that.

You want other people to come to terms with reality yet you continue to think parent is a great shut down dman, you dont need great goaltending, the flyers are a young elite team, shoter is a good gm and you have said many other gems. What color is the sky in your world. Do you work for the flyers ticket office in sales getting people to try to renew their seaosn tickets by chance

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03-27-2010, 10:41 AM
  #30
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The overly optimistic one speaks again. Yes i am willing to toss an avg gm to the curb. Reagrdless of the results of the next gm, shooter needs to go. You should be a sabres fan, they contend every year right? Unlike you i am tired of being competitve, and what is that really. How many 1st roundplayoff exits do the flyers have over the last 15 years? I want to win the cup. This gm has proven he is incapable of providing that. He has no plan, neither short nor long. Take your injuires and luck excuses and stick them up your sphincter. He corrects his mistakes, really. That is funny as hell to read. I guess your will say the eminger trade. Yeah he really corrected that mistake lol. If you think the pens have only a 4 year window, that clearly shows your ignorance their chief. To even compare the 2 teams is an insult to the pens sadly. The gm will force this team to be competitive. What a crock of ****. Barely making the playoffs and 1st round exits, that is what i want my gm to strive for. Well you can accept homers flaws and be int he same position year after year until he is gone. You enjoy that.

You want other people to come to terms with reality yet you continue to think parent is a great shut down dman, you dont need great goaltending, the flyers are a young elite team, shoter is a good gm and you have said many other gems. What color is the sky in your world. Do you work for the flyers ticket office in sales getting people to try to renew their seaosn tickets by chance
Average GM? Average effing GM? Seriously? You look at some of the disgusting mistakes around the NHL, and you guys are complaining about Randy freaking Jones.

I want to win a Cup as much as you. You're not allowed to use that as part of your argument.

The rest of your comment isn't worth arguing with.

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03-27-2010, 10:42 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
How can a GM who let the deadline pass without picking up a badly-needed goalie, and who has screwed up the salary cap so there is zero wiggle room be doing a great job? I'd hate to see one who really effed up, in that case.
It is mind-boggling, but I think this might be a business decision rather than them believing Holmgren has done a great job. At least that's what I hope. Comcast Spectacor has already fired Stevens this year and are supposedly firing the coach and the GM of the Sixers at the end of the season. They simply may not want to pay for a 4th person to do nothing while also paying for his replacement.

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03-27-2010, 10:45 AM
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Im disappointed.

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03-27-2010, 10:47 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Average GM? Average effing GM? Seriously? You look at some of the disgusting mistakes around the NHL, and you guys are complaining about Randy freaking Jones.

I want to win a Cup as much as you. You're not allowed to use that as part of your argument.

The rest of your comment isn't worth arguing with.
See this is where you get yourself confused. I do not care about the other teams in the league and what their gmís are doing. That is your problem. I care about what the flyers do. Yes he is avg. He has his strong points and is weak points. His weak points outweigh the strong, therefore making him avg. How hard is that to comprehend? For the budget that shooter has he has done a piss poor job. How you can seriously argue any different is mind boggling.

I know the other points are not worth arguing over because they disagree with your opinion. You are a flyers apologist. That is fine. Donít know how you can spew half the stuff you do on these boards and really believe them but whatever.

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03-27-2010, 10:48 AM
  #34
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Well our salary cap is even more ****ed now... Cant wait till the offseason to see what crazy contracts he signs for pretty much average players

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03-27-2010, 10:52 AM
  #35
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Shafer, i agree with every single thing you said.


For everyone else. Great lets get loads of cap room. Then what?, what do you want to do with it? Sure the briere contract is a little heavy , but we needed him at the time. You people think your such ****ing genius's, yet every single one of you is commenting on things in hindsight. It's amazing. You all sit there being your armchair GM's while proclaiming your the next god. I'll watch the team that homer assembled that was picked to win the cup at the start of the season, By you lot!

People really need to grow up. It's getting embarresing.

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03-27-2010, 10:55 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
See this is where you get yourself confused. I do not care about the other teams in the league and what their gmís are doing. That is your problem. I care about what the flyers do. Yes he is avg. He has his strong points and is weak points. His weak points outweigh the strong, therefore making him avg. How hard is that to comprehend? For the budget that shooter has he has done a piss poor job. How you can seriously argue any different is mind boggling.

I know the other points are not worth arguing over because they disagree with your opinion. You are a flyers apologist. That is fine. Donít know how you can spew half the stuff you do on these boards and really believe them but whatever.
You probably should care about what other GMs on other teams are doing if you want a GM to replace Holmgren when you've already made the decision that he's worn out his welcome.

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03-27-2010, 10:56 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Standards for success? My standard for success is a GM that puts us in a position to win year in and year out, because in the world of professional sports that's the most you can ask for.

Everyone here chirps so much about how they hold winning in the highest regard. That's Holmgren's job. His focus should be winning the Cup. In the end, that's what will keep us competitive. That's what will give us a chance every year.

The reality of the Stanley Cup is that it's nearly impossible to obtain. To get a good seed you have to be virtually injury free. Then you have to try not to be upset by a hot team riding up because of an injured player returning or some deadline moves. Then you have to beat other good teams just like you who have had good luck all year.

I hate to say this boils down to luck, but that's a real major factor in the whole thing.

I don't want your freaking "window." Holmgren doesn't give us a window of 4-5 years.

Holmgren is a General Manager that corrects his mistakes. That kind of GM gives us a long-term window, especially with the young core we have and the organization's reputation as one of the best drafting franchises in NHL history.

I want a good GM who employs good scouts, is a good scout himself, is a presence in the locker room, is involved in the overall atmosphere of the organization, and corrects his mistakes, because I have news for everyone in here. Every GM is going to make mistakes.

What, now you want Burke? So obsessed with playing physically to intimidate teams that he forgets everything else? You want Lou? An old man who has done great things for his organization but is still so loyal, much like Holmgren, that he will take a huge leap of faith with a guy like Rolston?

No world is perfect, and Holmgren doesn't give us a window. If you want your 4-5 year window then move to Pittsburgh. I'll stay where a GM will force this team to stay competitive.

I promise you, if you pick a GM with a 4-5 year window he will fail nine times out of ten regardless of team he has on the ice.

The grass is always greener with you people, and I wish some of you would seriously come to terms with reality.

This is no longer about my philosophies on goaltending or my evaluations of our players/prospects. This is about our organization moving forward. Every organization has severe flaws, but I'll be more than happy to take Holmgren's flaws if it means a chance to win year in and year out.

Do some of you not remember 06-07? How many of those do you want in between every 5 year shot at a Championship? When you think about then you can respond to me.

EDIT: By the way. Everyone here seems to want change right? What happens when that change doesn't work out like you planned? You're willing to toss a good GM on the curb just to fulfill your ever-changing and broad sense of justice? Absolutely ridiculous.
What are you talking about? I'll hit your "points" one at a time.

- I never said I wanted Burke and have criticized him repeatedly, good job trying to put words in my mouth.

- Considering that the Devils are the favorites to come out of the East, I'd say Lou has done a very nice job.

- Are you in denial about the fact that this team has a window now? Because they do. Holmgren created a 4 year window for this team with the Pronger trade combined with the Briere contract.

- "This is no longer about my philosophies on goaltending." You realized your philosophy is wrong then?

- "Holmgren is a GM who corrects his mistakes." Awesome! So he's apparently fixed the cap problem on the team? I can't wait to hear about it. And we have a new goalie? Fantastic! When does he get here?

- Not every organization has severe flaws.

The bottom line with this organization is that if you are really honest and go back the past 10 seasons (starting with 00-01), this team has been a Cup contender precisely once (03-04).

You can keep doing your best to sugarcoat it, but that's a fact.

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03-27-2010, 10:58 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Shafer, i agree with every single thing you said.


For everyone else. Great lets get loads of cap room. Then what?, what do you want to do with it? Sure the briere contract is a little heavy , but we needed him at the time. You people think your such ****ing genius's, yet every single one of you is commenting on things in hindsight. It's amazing. You all sit there being your armchair GM's while proclaiming your the next god. I'll watch the team that homer assembled that was picked to win the cup at the start of the season, By you lot!

People really need to grow up. It's getting embarresing.
nah, your embarrassing yourself with your comments. the fact that you agree with optimistic one seals that deal. You put on your flyers carter jersey this afternoon, make some lunch and enjoy the game. Watch the team this awesme gm has assembled. Well i am glad people picked them to win the cup, goes to show you how wrong they were adn didnt have much a of a clue. Hard to win without a good coach and good goaltending but lets over look those important parts of the team. So pu on your flyers glasses and give up a lets go flyers chant ont he count of 3. Ready 1, 2, 3.

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03-27-2010, 11:00 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You probably should care about what other GMs on other teams are doing if you want a GM to replace Holmgren when you've already made the decision that he's worn out his welcome.
good response, you made my day. No he hasnt worn out his welcome as he can go back to scouting. He is just not a capable gm. Just as he wasnt a capable coach. I dont even remember, was he the gm of the whalers as well?

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03-27-2010, 11:02 AM
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Id like to see how this team would be built from the net out.

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03-27-2010, 11:04 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Shafer, i agree with every single thing you said.


For everyone else. Great lets get loads of cap room. Then what?, what do you want to do with it? Sure the briere contract is a little heavy , but we needed him at the time. You people think your such ****ing genius's, yet every single one of you is commenting on things in hindsight. It's amazing. You all sit there being your armchair GM's while proclaiming your the next god. I'll watch the team that homer assembled that was picked to win the cup at the start of the season, By you lot!

People really need to grow up. It's getting embarresing.
I enjoy how you just completely ignore the fact that people had wanted Stevens gone since 2007, people have been asking for a 3rd line C since last summer, and several posters were very vocal about the riskiness of the Emery signing.

But no! It's all hindsight!

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03-27-2010, 11:04 AM
  #42
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What are you talking about? I'll hit your "points" one at a time.

- I never said I wanted Burke and have criticized him repeatedly, good job trying to put words in my mouth.
It was impress upon you that every GM sucks in some regard.

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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
- Considering that the Devils are the favorites to come out of the East, I'd say Lou has done a very nice job.
Yeah, but they're not realistically going to win the Cup right? Or could they? Even if they're the favorite for the Cup, the odds say they won't win it. They probably won't, but their 1st/2nd round exit this year and every year since 2000 is so effing different from the Flyers right?

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- Are you in denial about the fact that this team has a window now? Because they do. Holmgren created a 4 year window for this team with the Pronger trade combined with the Briere contract.
4 year window then what? We will stay competitive. Watch.

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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
- "This is no longer about my philosophies on goaltending." You realized your philosophy is wrong then?
How does you saying I'm wrong make me wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
- "Holmgren is a GM who corrects his mistakes." Awesome! So he's apparently fixed the cap problem on the team? I can't wait to hear about it.
This is the salary cap world. We have a minor one to correct two years from now, but we will stay competitive. However, every team that wants to stay competitive flirts with the cap ceiling.

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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
- Not every organization has severe flaws.
Which ones? Colorado? Phoenix? Los Angeles? They'll all have them soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
The bottom line with this organization is that if you are really honest and go back the past 10 seasons (starting with 00-01), this team has been a Cup contender precisely once (03-04).

You can keep doing your best to sugarcoat it, but that's a fact.
Everyone gets one? Unless you're Detroit or Pittsburgh with a superstar this decade.

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03-27-2010, 11:06 AM
  #43
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You know what's funny.

We'll get our goalie this offseason. Holmgren will likely make sure it happens now.

We will be Cup favorites according to everyone here, and then, like half the competitors we will be a first round exit team because of some injury.

God, I hope I'm wrong.

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03-27-2010, 11:10 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Shafer, i agree with every single thing you said.


For everyone else. Great lets get loads of cap room. Then what?, what do you want to do with it? Sure the briere contract is a little heavy , but we needed him at the time. You people think your such ****ing genius's, yet every single one of you is commenting on things in hindsight. It's amazing. You all sit there being your armchair GM's while proclaiming your the next god. I'll watch the team that homer assembled that was picked to win the cup at the start of the season, By you lot!

People really need to grow up. It's getting embarresing.
Are you seriously happy that Holmgren didn't get a goalie at the deadline?

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03-27-2010, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You know what's funny.

We'll get our goalie this offseason. Holmgren will likely make sure it happens now.

We will be Cup favorites according to everyone here, and then, like half the competitors we will be a first round exit team because of some injury.

God, I hope I'm wrong.
I think if emery stays healthy or even leighton, they would be in good shape. Emery was pretty good when he was healthy. Its had to fire Homer because of injuries. He has no control over that. BUT not leaving wiggle room in case of injuries is inexcusable. He should have been able to pick up a goalie when Emery was shelved without having to spread his cheeks and take it from every other GM. Thats his fault. I think Holmgren would make a nice assistant GM or head scout. Not too excited seeing more of the same mismanagement of the cap. Draft picks i could give a ratass about.

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03-27-2010, 11:14 AM
  #46
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I enjoy how you just completely ignore the fact that people had wanted Stevens gone since 2007, people have been asking for a 3rd line C since last summer, and several posters were very vocal about the riskiness of the Emery signing.

But no! It's all hindsight!
Even the Briere contract. Jester, among others, was very vocal in his preference for a stopgap top C to let Carter and Richards grow into their roles. The hindsight arguments are pretty weak given that nearly every one of the complaints people have on here have been constant for a lot longer than people seem to realize.

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03-27-2010, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Average GM? Average effing GM? Seriously? You look at some of the disgusting mistakes around the NHL, and you guys are complaining about Randy freaking Jones.

I want to win a Cup as much as you. You're not allowed to use that as part of your argument.

The rest of your comment isn't worth arguing with.
Average GM for sure. He's average because we've had average results.

6th-5th-7th

Looks pretty average to me.

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03-27-2010, 11:47 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
Are you seriously happy that Holmgren didn't get a goalie at the deadline?
I was at the time, I really believed in leighton. I know allot of other people didn't, but his record spoke for itself. Who was to know that he was going to go down injured.


Last edited by GKJ: 03-27-2010 at 11:48 AM. Reason: don't need to call out other members like that
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03-27-2010, 11:49 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
Are you seriously happy that Holmgren didn't get a goalie at the deadline?
It's not so much people being upset about it, it's the fact that he has nothing to trade to get one.

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03-27-2010, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I was at the time, I really believed in leighton. I know allot of other people didn't, but his record spoke for itself. Who was to know that he was going to go down injured.
Nobody knows when someone is going to get injured (unless you're talking about Gaborik), but you have to plan for that if winning the Cup is your aim. Leighton could get hurt and didn't have much track record of success. Isn't that the ideal time to go out and get a veteran backup than you KNOW can step in and play at a high level for a while, just in case?

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