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Ignoring the pathetic refereeing for one moment...

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Old
03-27-2010, 04:01 PM
  #1
1865
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Ignoring the pathetic refereeing for one moment...

...and while i'm sure we'll all agree that it is utterly pathetic, there is a far more pressing matter at hand. I made a similar thread earlier in the season, but unfortunately the problem is back and worse than ever.

We've scored 7 goals in 5 games and only 18 in our last 10.

Briere has 1 goal in 11 games (next year he's going to become the cap elephant we predicted)
Richards has 2 goals in 12 games.
Hartnell has 3 goals in 29 games.
Giroux has 2 goals in 22 games.
JVR has 2 goals in 26 games.

Looking past the main guys, Powe has 1 goal in 31 games, Asham has 1 goal in 20 games, Carcillo has 4 goals in 23 games. It's pathetic. Only Carter (11 goals in 16 games) and Gagne (10 in 17 games) are keeping us afloat, and one of them is injured.

This team's forward corps is awful, there's no two ways about that fact. I know we don't have a Crosby or Ovechkin in the roster, but is it too much to ask for maybe more than 2 players scoring a a goal every-other-game pace or maybe the team averaging 2 goals a game? We're letting in too many goals too now too (49 conceded in 15 games) and have no goalie worthy of the name so the goal scoring is becoming a major problem. It'll probably be the reason we either miss out on the play-offs or fluke it in and get annihalated in 4 by Washington. We don't even have a first rounder to comfort us about missing the play-offs...

So **** you Holmgren and **** you Flyers. I'm sick of watching this ****. It's unfortunate that the refereeing is centre stage at the moment and the forwards get away with their pathetic performances.


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Old
03-27-2010, 04:11 PM
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GKJ
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I was looking through some numbers yesterday, notably our home games.

Of the 8 teams currently in the playoffs (though this stat could include the Thrashers and Rangers), we have scored at least 4 goals three times. Two of them were the first 2 home games, the other was November 12 vs. Ottawa. The Flyers are 2-1 in such games. The 2 games they won, the goalies were Varlamov and Leclaire...both of who are currently backups. The other was the 5-4 game vs. Pittsburgh (w/ Fleury) where we scored the 4th goal in the last minute.

How do you expect to be a playoff team with this kind of offense?

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03-27-2010, 04:18 PM
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No, everyone knows goaltending is the real problem.

Our offense has been inconsistent all year, and our big scorers tend to get gun shy in big games. That's the heart of the problem, has been, and will continue to be.

Until our forwards consistently perform to their potential level, this team will never be anything more than mediocre, no matter who's on the blue line or in net.

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03-27-2010, 04:20 PM
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forwards picked the worst time of the year to slump.

I know we have huge injury issues, but that should make the guys step up, not back away

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03-27-2010, 04:23 PM
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I would have ZERO issue with moving Briere and Hartnell at this point. For next to nothing if need be.

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03-27-2010, 04:24 PM
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This is exactly what happens when you fill a roster full of two way forwards and you need someone to step up and be an offensive leader. They can't do it. For once, I wish this franchise would quit with drafting a two way player and look for a dominant offensive hockey player. Honestly, do you need said forward to play defense when you have a roster full of capable players who can cover up for them defensively? Give me a pure scoring machine any day and worry about the defense later.

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03-27-2010, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
This is exactly what happens when you fill a roster full of two way forwards and you need someone to step up and be an offensive leader. They can't do it. For once, I wish this franchise would quit with drafting a two way player and look for a dominant offensive hockey player. Honestly, do you need said forward to play defense when you have a roster full of capable players who can cover up for them defensively? Give me a pure scoring machine any day and worry about the defense later.
impossible to do that without getting a first/2nd overall pick really.

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03-27-2010, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
This is exactly what happens when you fill a roster full of two way forwards and you need someone to step up and be an offensive leader. They can't do it. For once, I wish this franchise would quit with drafting a two way player and look for a dominant offensive hockey player. Honestly, do you need said forward to play defense when you have a roster full of capable players who can cover up for them defensively? Give me a pure scoring machine any day and worry about the defense later.
I was one of the ones calling for Kovy at the deadline. We are in dire need a a goal scoring winger.

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03-27-2010, 04:32 PM
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We have no one who has the skill set to occupy the front of the opposition net. Half our shots from the point are blocked by opponents, over a quarter are wide or blocked by our own forwards and the remaining percentage that get through are rarely through traffic. Opposing goalies are having a field day against the Flyers because they see just about everything. Knuble was a huge,huge loss. Especially when we kept guys like Jones around.

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03-27-2010, 04:42 PM
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We have no one who has the skill set to occupy the front of the opposition net. Half our shots from the point are blocked by opponents, over a quarter are wide or blocked by our own forwards and the remaining percentage that get through are rarely through traffic. Opposing goalies are having a field day against the Flyers because they see just about everything. Knuble was a huge,huge loss. Especially when we kept guys like Jones around.
Boy, I miss Knuble. Briere is MUP for this year- most useless player.

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03-27-2010, 04:43 PM
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Boy, I miss Knuble. Briere is MUP for this year- most useless player.
Worst signing in Flyers history.

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03-27-2010, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
This is exactly what happens when you fill a roster full of two way forwards and you need someone to step up and be an offensive leader. They can't do it. For once, I wish this franchise would quit with drafting a two way player and look for a dominant offensive hockey player. Honestly, do you need said forward to play defense when you have a roster full of capable players who can cover up for them defensively? Give me a pure scoring machine any day and worry about the defense later.
I guess that's supposed to be Briere...who doesnt play a lick of defense.

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03-27-2010, 04:51 PM
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Here's a good thread to place my assessment of this season and the two others before it:

A week ago, after the loss to Ottawa, I called into WIP and spoke with Brian Startare. I was furious enough to wait on the phone for fifteen minutes and still have enough energy left to take out my anger. My main point of the conversation was how terrible of a GM I thought Paul Holmgren was. I bashed his distribution of No movement clauses, his cap management, and the signing of Boucher. One thing I distinctly remember was complaining about the NMCs given to Briere and Hartnell and saying (now this is in the heat of anger after a huge loss), "didn't Homer think that if these guys didn't perform up to expectations that they could be moved for something more valuable or picks to spark a rebuilding?" Startare replied with something to the effect of NMCs were common during that off-season and were pretty much the only way those players would be able to sign. So after realizing that and coming to agree with it, I still decided to place the blame on Paul Holmgren for structuring a team that has no commitment, chemistry, or confidence.

I then realized after saying that, how could I blame Homer for that? How was he supposed to know that Danny Briere's best seasons would end in Buffalo, or that Hartnell would impress everyone with a sixty point season only to have it forgotten by a terrible slumping season? I finally, after being blind to the whole truth for the last three seasons, realized that this team was just not good enough. Sure the talent is there, sure the good mix of veterans and young players are there; but the most important parts have vanished somewhere in between. The drive, the confidence and chemistry is not there.

On paper, Paul Holmgren (over the last 3 years) put together a deep and well balanced team with strong defense and adequate goaltending (only 07-08 and 08-09) that could be chosen for a cup contender easily. Paper. That's the case, ON PAPER. Mike Richards, Simon Gagne, Jeff Carter, Daniel Briere, Scott Hartnell; these are names that can be synonymous with production. But is it there? It can be. Is it consistent? Hell no. The fact of the matter is that this team just isn't as good as what they're made out to be. If paper could win cups, then we'd have sure as hell chances to have one in the last few years.

The only things we can blame Holmgren for doing is bad cap management (Jones, other various contracts) and signing a washed up back up. I'm not picking on Boosh, but its obvious that he's lost it...all.

I'm ready for another rebuild. I want to give Paul another chance. I'd love to see a serious change in the makeup of this team, even if it has to do with trading Carter, Coburn, Briere(if possible), etc. Build this team around Richards, Pronger, Giroux and JVR.

Thanks for reading this post, please feel free to pick it apart.

Nonetheless, go

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03-27-2010, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
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I guess that's supposed to be Briere...who doesnt play a lick of defense.
It's a combination of things with Briere. First, the organization has no idea how to utilize offensively gifted players. Do you ever notice it's the same god damn thing over and over with any offensive player they get? It always seems to be "focus on defense, the offense will come later" philosophy. Second, Briere is done. He's be so misused here, I really think that it's gotten to him and that he's packed it in and that he doesn't really care. Shame too because he was a great player in Buffalo.

What really irritates me though is that Giroux and JVR are supposed to be offensive catalysts and they look absolutely lost out there. It's like they don't know what their roles are and what's expected of them.

Maybe a full training camp and pre-season with Laviolette is all this team needs to shake things up. I honestly don't know. However, it's an absolute disappointment and joke to watch what's gone on here and how our GM has handled things. He's messed this franchise up something fierce and nobody should be surprised. When he was GM in Hartford, he also messed things up royally there as well.

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03-27-2010, 04:52 PM
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Worst signing in Flyers history.

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03-27-2010, 04:57 PM
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Worst signing in Flyers history.

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03-27-2010, 04:58 PM
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The sticks have gone cold again at the worst possible moment . . . but you need to win 1-0 and 2-1 games once in a while too.

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03-27-2010, 05:03 PM
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Sanders418777
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In the end we lost 2 first rounders for that signing? Atleast we aren't suffering for years to come with Briere's contract... hell can you imagine him in 3-4 years with this same cap hit.

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03-27-2010, 05:04 PM
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I would agree, but with the new CBA the Briere contract's impact is tenfold

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03-27-2010, 05:06 PM
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We are 2-6-2 in the last 10 games played, good for worst in the league during that stretch. Hell, the Leafs are 7-3.

2-6-2

I'm soldiering on, but it's not easy at all.

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03-27-2010, 05:11 PM
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In the end we lost 2 first rounders for that signing? Atleast we aren't suffering for years to come with Briere's contract... hell can you imagine him in 3-4 years with this same cap hit.
It would have been four, but the Lightning were stupid enough to take Mikael Renberg and Karl Dykhuis instead.

Briere was a Don Luce person. They brought Don Luce from Buffalo, when Buffalo was the model team of the new NHL.


The real question to ask about that is since when did the Philadelphia Flyers want to be Buffalo?

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03-27-2010, 05:12 PM
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I honestly think a lot of it is the lines.

I like Lavi, but some of the consistent retardation as far as making lines has gotten really aggravating.

I think it also may to be time to accept that Richie doesn't generate a ton of ES offense, so we need to put serious skill players on his line instead of saddling with him with Richards and Carcillo and expecting him to produce.

I've lost track of the number of times we've seen Carcillo/Hartnell blow an open pass or a chance to do something with an bad TO.

Put a real top-6 together and roll with it instead of putting all our skill players on separate lines.

Look at what we had today.

Carcillo-Richards-Hartnell (Richie and 2 guys who aren't skilled).
Leino-Briere-Gagne (ehh, it's an okay line, not sold on Leino in the to-6).
JVR-Giroux-Powe (JVR has hit a wall, Giroux shouldn't play C).
Lappy-Betts-Asham (4th line)

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03-27-2010, 05:17 PM
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They need to abandon the 3 scoring lines concept. It was great last year when our big guns took turns carrying us, but as the depth depletes in the cap world you need to have 2 lines that are capable of having strong nights consistently.

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03-27-2010, 05:53 PM
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Ugh. At this point it's a combination of everything. It isn't just the scoring, it isn't just the defense, it isn't just the goalies, and it isn't just the injuries. It's everything. This season has been a picture perfect Murphy's Law season. Not making excuses, but throughout the entire season the team just hasn't gotten the bounces and have not played well when they needed to. In an 82 game season you need to play well throughout and get some bounces. Flyers have done neither. Ugh.

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03-27-2010, 06:05 PM
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Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleary84 View Post
Here's a good thread to place my assessment of this season and the two others before it:

I then realized after saying that, how could I blame Homer for that? How was he supposed to know that Danny Briere's best seasons would end in Buffalo, or that Hartnell would impress everyone with a sixty point season only to have it forgotten by a terrible slumping season? I
The Briere thing wasn't hard to predict. He was your prototypical player having a career year in his contract year. He was also a product of a Buffalo team that was one of the best goal scoring teams in the last decade. 95 points was way out of line of his previous years. It was foolish expect him to continue to produce at that level and give him the contract to reflect it.

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