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Old
03-27-2010, 08:04 PM
  #51
sa cyred
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Ill put this bit of info here. Its up to you guys if you believe me or not. Accouple of my Dad's friends went to the Flyers game against Minnesota. They sat right behind Coasty. All game they heard Carcillo talking **** about the players on the ice...his own teammates. He would yell at Boosh (even if he does kinda deserve it) and would yell at the defense all game. He didnt yell anything positive though. Supposidly he went alittle overboard on a few defensemen also (especially the younger guys)

Maybe there is something going on in the locker room? I know its usual for players to yell at other players, to try to get them to play better, but supposedly Carcillo went way to far.

This team really needs to get their **** straight.

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03-27-2010, 08:12 PM
  #52
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I'm fine with everybody listed except Briere. I think everybody up there has the ability to bounce back except Briere. Not only that, but he's going to absolutely destroy our cap flexibility in coming years.

Biggest issue for us is getting a garbage goal guy. Like Knuble. A power forward (a la Umberger) would also be nice. Although those kinds of guys are a little rare.

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03-27-2010, 08:12 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by EdmFlyersfan View Post
Only real trading chips we have are Richards (before his NMC clause kicks in and his 10 year contract), Giroux and Parent. All others have no value or can't be moved because of Homer's NTC/NMC's.

Some possibilities:

Trade Richards & Parent for a top flight winger like Nash (if possible).

Trade Giroux and "X" for Cory Schneider from Vancouver.

Trade any forward on the club for Vokun.

Keep the our defense intact (Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Coburn, Krajicek and Bartulis).

Probably the worst idea I've heard in my life.

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03-27-2010, 08:13 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I'm fine with everybody listed except Briere. I think everybody up there has the ability to bounce back except Briere. Not only that, but he's going to absolutely destroy our cap flexibility in coming years.

Biggest issue for us is getting a garbage goal guy. Like Knuble. A power forward (a la Umberger) would also be nice. Although those kinds of guys are a little rare.

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03-27-2010, 08:28 PM
  #55
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Fans and management still push a hard hitting physical team, but there are only three Flyers in the top 100 players for hits, Carcillo, Powe & Richards. Briere's finese play does not match the team in any aspect. Flyers continue to place the goaltender dujour in net. If they had made a sold FA signing in net this past summer, not Ray Emery, this would be a different team. Bottom line, this team and organization has no firm identity and does not know what it wants to do. If they are smart, they will make a push for Dan Ellis.

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03-27-2010, 08:30 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Penscup1991 View Post
Fans and management still push a hard hitting physical team, but there are only three Flyers in the top 100 players for hits, Carcillo, Powe & Richards. Briere's finese play does not match the team in any aspect. Flyers continue to place the goaltender dujour in net. If they had made a sold FA signing in net this past summer, not Ray Emery, this would be a different team. Bottom line, this team and organization has no firm identity and does not know what it wants to do. If they are smart, they will make a push for Dan Ellis.
Emery was fine when he was healthy. It can be debated that they gave him too much work in the beginning of the season, but his play was solid and didn't seem to an issue in the dressing room, either.

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03-27-2010, 10:04 PM
  #57
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Hindsight is 20/20. A lot of people are saying that signing Emery was a mistake, and a lot of the big contracts were a joke.


A lot of you were members of this site back then - can any of you produce a quote of yourself feeling that way when it happened?

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03-27-2010, 10:20 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Penscup1991 View Post
Fans and management still push a hard hitting physical team, but there are only three Flyers in the top 100 players for hits, Carcillo, Powe & Richards. Briere's finese play does not match the team in any aspect. Flyers continue to place the goaltender dujour in net. If they had made a sold FA signing in net this past summer, not Ray Emery, this would be a different team. Bottom line, this team and organization has no firm identity and does not know what it wants to do. If they are smart, they will make a push for Dan Ellis.
Because we all know how greatly the hit stats are done and how comparable the are.

Ellis, though, would indeed be a nice signing.
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Old
03-27-2010, 10:26 PM
  #59
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Some possibilities:

Trade Richards & Parent for a top flight winger like Nash (if possible).

Trade Giroux and "X" for Cory Schneider from Vancouver.

Trade any forward on the club for Vokun.

Keep the our defense intact (Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Coburn, Krajicek and Bartulis).
I can't find the exact post so I'll just quote it like this instead.

Every once of those ideas was horrible. You're suggesting trading Richards, Parent, and Giroux for Cory Schneider and Rick Nash (who would never get traded and neither would Richards or Giroux for that matter). That's horrible. That leaves our centers as Carter and Briere with even worse RW depth. Trading for Vokoun would take a guy like Carter and if we trade Carter plus all those guys you suggested then that leaves us with Briere as our number one center. Awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penscup1991 View Post
Fans and management still push a hard hitting physical team, but there are only three Flyers in the top 100 players for hits, Carcillo, Powe & Richards. Briere's finese play does not match the team in any aspect. Flyers continue to place the goaltender dujour in net. If they had made a sold FA signing in net this past summer, not Ray Emery, this would be a different team. Bottom line, this team and organization has no firm identity and does not know what it wants to do. If they are smart, they will make a push for Dan Ellis.
Emery was a fine signing. It was actually kind of smart considering our cap situation at the time. No one could have predicted his injuries either.

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Originally Posted by mypetmeatball View Post
Hindsight is 20/20. A lot of people are saying that signing Emery was a mistake, and a lot of the big contracts were a joke.


A lot of you were members of this site back then - can any of you produce a quote of yourself feeling that way when it happened?
Agreed. Briere, at the time, was a good signing. He is an albatross right now though. Emery was also a perfectly fine signing on it's own.

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Old
03-27-2010, 11:30 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypetmeatball View Post
Hindsight is 20/20. A lot of people are saying that signing Emery was a mistake, and a lot of the big contracts were a joke.


A lot of you were members of this site back then - can any of you produce a quote of yourself feeling that way when it happened?
I think I liked most of the contracts at the time. I tolerated Briere's because of the circumstances, and I liked Timmonen's and Hartnell's. I didn't like Carle's contract (but he came with that) or that trade. The one thing I know for certain is that I never wanted to trade Downie. That guy has always been a winner. But that is quite irrelevant to this conversation. )Just wanted to show that I at least had one opinion that was a good one in hindsight!)

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Old
03-27-2010, 11:51 PM
  #61
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No, everyone knows goaltending is the real problem.
And the bad habits left over from the coach we fired 110 days ago.

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03-27-2010, 11:53 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Maybe there is something going on in the locker room? I know its usual for players to yell at other players, to try to get them to play better, but supposedly Carcillo went way to far.
I was there too. That one goal they scored that night was a beauty of a give and go and their goal celebration was cordial at best.

I think you are right. I think they don't really like each other, these Flyers.

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03-28-2010, 12:20 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Ill put this bit of info here. Its up to you guys if you believe me or not. Accouple of my Dad's friends went to the Flyers game against Minnesota. They sat right behind Coasty. All game they heard Carcillo talking **** about the players on the ice...his own teammates. He would yell at Boosh (even if he does kinda deserve it) and would yell at the defense all game. He didnt yell anything positive though. Supposidly he went alittle overboard on a few defensemen also (especially the younger guys)

Maybe there is something going on in the locker room? I know its usual for players to yell at other players, to try to get them to play better, but supposedly Carcillo went way to far.

This team really needs to get their **** straight.
That's usually where Pronger rings a guy by the neck and tells him to keep his mouth shut.

If you dad is suggesting what it seems like he is suggesting, maybe it's a wonder Phoenix is having their best season...ever and the Penguins saw fit to discard him?

Seems a bit over the top to be honest. Depends if he did it the whole game or not but I do agree with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I think you are right. I think they don't really like each other, these Flyers.
...that I don't feel like the Flyers truly want it for each other. As an example, one reason Dean Lombardi refused to make a huge trade was because he didn't want to remove anyone off the roster because the group was so tightly knit, and really enjoyed being around each other, and want to win for each other. Therien mention something last weekend about how he thought it was strange that the team doesn't spend much time with each other on the road off the ice. However all the grilling they took for partying and such (subsequently seeing those guys one by one leaving the team) may have something to do with that.

During the last Toronto game, some were claiming how they were coming together as a real team, and I never saw that to be the case. They may get into the scrums just because they're wearing the same uniform and it's what they're supposed to do, instead of actually wanting to do it.

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Old
03-28-2010, 12:33 AM
  #64
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Here's a good thread to place my assessment of this season and the two others before it:

A week ago, after the loss to Ottawa, I called into WIP and spoke with Brian Startare. I was furious enough to wait on the phone for fifteen minutes and still have enough energy left to take out my anger. My main point of the conversation was how terrible of a GM I thought Paul Holmgren was. I bashed his distribution of No movement clauses, his cap management, and the signing of Boucher. One thing I distinctly remember was complaining about the NMCs given to Briere and Hartnell and saying (now this is in the heat of anger after a huge loss), "didn't Homer think that if these guys didn't perform up to expectations that they could be moved for something more valuable or picks to spark a rebuilding?" Startare replied with something to the effect of NMCs were common during that off-season and were pretty much the only way those players would be able to sign. So after realizing that and coming to agree with it, I still decided to place the blame on Paul Holmgren for structuring a team that has no commitment, chemistry, or confidence.

I then realized after saying that, how could I blame Homer for that? How was he supposed to know that Danny Briere's best seasons would end in Buffalo, or that Hartnell would impress everyone with a sixty point season only to have it forgotten by a terrible slumping season? I finally, after being blind to the whole truth for the last three seasons, realized that this team was just not good enough. Sure the talent is there, sure the good mix of veterans and young players are there; but the most important parts have vanished somewhere in between. The drive, the confidence and chemistry is not there.

On paper, Paul Holmgren (over the last 3 years) put together a deep and well balanced team with strong defense and adequate goaltending (only 07-08 and 08-09) that could be chosen for a cup contender easily. Paper. That's the case, ON PAPER. Mike Richards, Simon Gagne, Jeff Carter, Daniel Briere, Scott Hartnell; these are names that can be synonymous with production. But is it there? It can be. Is it consistent? Hell no. The fact of the matter is that this team just isn't as good as what they're made out to be. If paper could win cups, then we'd have sure as hell chances to have one in the last few years.

The only things we can blame Holmgren for doing is bad cap management (Jones, other various contracts) and signing a washed up back up. I'm not picking on Boosh, but its obvious that he's lost it...all.

I'm ready for another rebuild. I want to give Paul another chance. I'd love to see a serious change in the makeup of this team, even if it has to do with trading Carter, Coburn, Briere(if possible), etc. Build this team around Richards, Pronger, Giroux and JVR.

Thanks for reading this post, please feel free to pick it apart.

Nonetheless, go
Good post .

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Old
03-28-2010, 12:43 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
That's usually where Pronger rings a guy by the neck and tells him to keep his mouth shut.

If you dad is suggesting what it seems like he is suggesting, maybe it's a wonder Phoenix is having their best season...ever and the Penguins saw fit to discard him?

Seems a bit over the top to be honest. Depends if he did it the whole game or not but I do agree with this:



...that I don't feel like the Flyers truly want it for each other. As an example, one reason Dean Lombardi refused to make a huge trade was because he didn't want to remove anyone off the roster because the group was so tightly knit, and really enjoyed being around each other, and want to win for each other. Therien mention something last weekend about how he thought it was strange that the team doesn't spend much time with each other on the road off the ice. However all the grilling they took for partying and such (subsequently seeing those guys one by one leaving the team) may have something to do with that.

During the last Toronto game, some were claiming how they were coming together as a real team, and I never saw that to be the case. They may get into the scrums just because they're wearing the same uniform and it's what they're supposed to do, instead of actually wanting to do it.

It was not my Dad, but his friends, who I also know personally and their good trustworthy people. One of them even likes Carcillo, but they were right behind Coatsey and heard him screaming all game. I even asked if, maybe it was to get the team going. He said though that they said it didnt seem that way. Carcillo and a few other players did not seem seem happy at all. Even when they were winning, the whole bench just seemed out of it.

I didnt believe it, but Im starting to believe that they really dont like eachother.


Also this isnt me just hating on him. I dont (well didnt) dislike him as much in the beginning of the season, but when I heard this... its not needed.

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03-28-2010, 12:46 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
It was not my Dad, but his friends, who I also know personally and their good trustworthy people. One of them even likes Carcillo, but they were right behind Coatsey and heard him screaming all game. I even asked if, maybe it was to get the team going. He said though that they said it didnt seem that way. Carcillo and a few other players did not seem seem happy at all. Even when they were winning, the whole bench just seemed out of it.

I didnt believe it, but Im starting to believe that they really dont like eachother.


Also this isnt me just hating on him. I dont (well didnt) dislike him as much in the beginning of the season, but when I heard this... its not needed.
it just goes with the theory that they don't really believe they can win, which is different than a loss of confidence. They're stepping on the ice thinking about what they have to do to not lose instead of going out trying to win.

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03-28-2010, 01:42 AM
  #67
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If that's true about Carcillo, it's rather disappointing. However, I can't say that I'm too surprised as it would make sense how they've played most of the season.

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03-28-2010, 02:44 AM
  #68
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I say when Carter comes back we roll him on a line with Richards and Briere. If we're going to lose anyways we might as well try be a one line team and seeing if they can carry us.

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03-28-2010, 05:53 AM
  #69
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I say when Carter comes back we roll him on a line with Richards and Briere. If we're going to lose anyways we might as well try be a one line team and seeing if they can carry us.
Good idea actually. Would really change the make-up of this team but I would give it a try.

On Carcillo, I don't really believe it. Even if something like what has been described happens it's probably blown out of proportion. In team sports it happens so often that you aren't happy with each other and as a consequence insult each other. It doesn't mean anything for 97% of the time.
Also I don't see Lavy accepting stuff like this if it would be too serious and would trend towards mobbing.

As for the players aren't close to each other I really don't have any knowledge about this, but I always feared something like this when we traded Upshall and Lupul and tried to split up that rumored 'party gang'. Reason for this is mainly the 07/08 team, it seamed like this team had a really good time together and developped this "we against the world" team spirit.
Even the vets on this team seemed to be into the group thing (Kimo, Smith, Hatcher, Sami, Knuble).
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03-28-2010, 12:07 PM
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I say when Carter comes back we roll him on a line with Richards and Briere. If we're going to lose anyways we might as well try be a one line team and seeing if they can carry us.
What if he doesn't roll on shabbos?


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03-28-2010, 12:10 PM
  #71
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Good idea actually. Would really change the make-up of this team but I would give it a try.

On Carcillo, I don't really believe it. Even if something like what has been described happens it's probably blown out of proportion. In team sports it happens so often that you aren't happy with each other and as a consequence insult each other. It doesn't mean anything for 97% of the time.
Also I don't see Lavy accepting stuff like this if it would be too serious and would trend towards mobbing.

As for the players aren't close to each other I really don't have any knowledge about this, but I always feared something like this when we traded Upshall and Lupul and tried to split up that rumored 'party gang'. Reason for this is mainly the 07/08 team, it seamed like this team had a really good time together and developped this "we against the world" team spirit.
Even the vets on this team seemed to be into the group thing (Kimo, Smith, Hatcher, Sami, Knuble).
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The theory was that they were having too good of a time together.

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03-28-2010, 12:26 PM
  #72
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I find it hard to believe Laviolette got Carcillo's act under control on the ice to the point that guys are taking shots at him and he's just eating it and looking at the refs, but Laviolette allows him to run his mouth inappropriately to team mates. I am of the opinion that he has every right to yell at any team mate who is underachieving as a result of poor effort. He goes out and plays hard every game, I think it fair that he hold others to the same standard.

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03-28-2010, 01:11 PM
  #73
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What if he doesn't roll on shabbos?

Shomer ****in Shabbos

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03-28-2010, 01:18 PM
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Because we are so awesome with garbage/average goaltending the last 20 years right?

Look at our history

1970-1980: Great Goaltending 4 Stanley Cup Appearances
1981-1990: Great Goaltending 2 Stanley Cup Appearances
1991-2000: Average Goaltending 1 Stanley Cup Appearance
2000-2010: Average/Sub-Par Goaltending: 0 Stanley Cup Appearances

So with Great goaltending we had 6 Stanley Cup Apperances in 20 years, which works out to 30%, and then we have the next 20 years with average goaltending we have 1 Stanley Cup appearance which works out to 5%...tell me again that having a top goalie is not as important as a top centerman.

Your exact thought is why the Flyers have sucked a$$ for the last 20 years, because they fail to address the goalie issue. Build from the net out. Even our "heralded" player Lindros could only take the Flyers so far, and our shoddy goaltending cost us the Stanley Cup that year...and we do not have that type of player on this club anymore, so move whoever to get a star like Vokoun and move Richards to get a scorer...Richards may be part of the problem and is sulking ever since his butt buddy Stevens got canned. Pronger and others have taken the burden of captaincy because of Richards failure.

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I can't find the exact post so I'll just quote it like this instead.

Every once of those ideas was horrible. You're suggesting trading Richards, Parent, and Giroux for Cory Schneider and Rick Nash (who would never get traded and neither would Richards or Giroux for that matter). That's horrible. That leaves our centers as Carter and Briere with even worse RW depth. Trading for Vokoun would take a guy like Carter and if we trade Carter plus all those guys you suggested then that leaves us with Briere as our number one center. Awesome.

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03-28-2010, 02:29 PM
  #75
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The theory was that they were having too good of a time together.
And as It's proving now, that was a stupid theory. Wouldn't we all rather have a close knit team who played like 07-08 and clicked, or would we rather a team that in some capacity doesn't gel or get along well?

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