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LA Kings v. Dallas Stars: THOUGHTS, TIDBITS, AND COMPLAINTS!

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Old
03-28-2010, 04:00 AM
  #101
vh2k7
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if he would be willing to play on the third line, like he has whenever he's been asked.

what a jerk!

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03-28-2010, 04:13 AM
  #102
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Problems with this team tonight:

- you have to blame the refs on this one at least partially; Auger is a terrible human being
- everyone stood around and watched Brown get beat up by Neal
- the team collapsed emotionally after the Stars took the lead
- Quick was awful; Doughty was awful

Problems with this team over the last month:

- constant line shuffling by Murray; Kopitar has played with six different wingers over the past ten games at one point or another; that's absolutely deplorable coaching
- this team is tired; the jump just hasn't been there since the break
- non creative power play and five on five offensive scheme; teams tighten up defensively in the playoff push; our offense and power play are both easily scouted
- Quick just hasn't showed up

Greater problems with this team that extend beyond March and need to be addressed before we can consider ourselves a Cup contender:

- horrid defensive core; there's Doughty (despite his horrid play tonight) and there's everyone else; Johnson has flashes, but that's about it; our three and four are Scuderi and Greene - not good
- coaching; we've all beaten this one to death; we were all Murray supporters at one point or another, but the honeymoon has gradually ended for most of us
- offense consists of too much grit and not enough finesse, but that's more of a personal opinion

So here we are, boys. This is the reality we're all facing:

This team is young. This team is inexperienced. This team is choking.

Choking.

How we pull out of this one and salvage what looked like, a couple months ago, to be a record setting memorable season, is beyond me. This team didn't just have a bad game with a few bad calls and bounces. There is something wrong with this team. You can see it in the eyes of everyone sitting on the bench. You can see it on the ice. Something is very wrong.

We can keep telling ourselves that Calgary is too far behind, they're choking themselves, etc. ad infinitum. All it takes is one winning streak and one losing streak. We've already been providing the latter.

I really don't know what to say. I made a big stink in the PGT and eventually turned off the game early. I've turned three games off early this season: the season opener, the Atlanta massacre, and this game.

I guess this post can't get more depressing, so I'll leave you all with a question:

If this team makes the playoffs and gets swept by Chicago in the first round, how will that affect the team's development, and what does that accomplish?

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03-28-2010, 04:13 AM
  #103
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I still believe, I promise to start watching more.

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Old
03-28-2010, 09:34 AM
  #104
Sydor25
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
How many games do you guys think we'll win scoring one goal?
With Bernier? All of them.

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03-28-2010, 09:37 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Diving Pokecheck* View Post
Aren't you just tired of him? We have given him 3-4 years to play well, and he has only shown that he can when he has had absolutely no pressure on him. He hasn't played well for any significant stretch this year.

He had something like 9 points in 4 games after the olympics, but that's it. No production, no results. We can't wait anymore. Regardless if we get someone more talented or whatever we need to get someone that brings it every night. Someone better than Frolov to fill his spot.

I would be happy to re-sign Frolov if he would be willing to play where he belongs, on the 3rd line, but he won't.
That's Frolov who has been playing a huge part of this season on the third line with Michal Handzus? I thought so... and those two are GREAT together!

Seriously you should remember how important Frolov and Handzus have been throughout the season before getting too "tired".

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03-28-2010, 09:46 AM
  #106
Chazz Reinhold
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So after a night's sleep to cool off I feel I should clarify a few things (if anyone actually cares what I have to say): First, I don't think this team won't make the playoffs. I don't expect them to go 0-8 and have Calgary win 4 of their next 7. However, I'm particularly worried about what happens when they get to the playoffs. I get the statement that this season is not about this season, believe me, but I question how conducive to team development in the future it will be to back into the playoffs and presumably get waxed by a top team. Second, people can argue about how a slump like this was bound to happen and whatnot, but the way the slump is happening is what is most disconcerting. They have spurts where they play great, but that is followed by even longer droughts of awful play. No cohesion on the forecheck, too many blatant mistakes in the defensive zone, not enough loose puck battles won. All of these are adding up to some bad hockey for a majority of the time since the Olympic break. Something needs to happen with this team, and it needs to happen soon.

As someone who has played competitive hockey for a long time (and I still do), I can guarantee you that on even the most tight-knit teams, a string of losses and poor performances (in general) leads to negativity seeping into the dressing room and onto the ice (as much as people try to guard against it). It's only human nature. I think Brown's post game quotes last night are evidence of that. Negativity is not conducive to successful team building. I've had many a good teams ruined by overall negativity. I think it's starting to affect the players.

They've been less than impressive in their wins the past couple weeks, inconsistent in their losses (and sometimes downright terrible), and there is something that just doesn't feel right about how things are starting to go with this team. Like I said, something needs to happen soon to snap them out of it.

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03-28-2010, 09:49 AM
  #107
Sydor25
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
...
And I think I found out what it was. Check out these numbers from the past three games:

3/24 @ Col ... Kings took 31 shots that were blocked or missed the net, the Nordiques took only 21
3/25 @ StL ... Kings took 32 shots that were blocked or missed the net, the Blues took only 13
3/27 @ Dal ... Kings took 30 shots that were blocked or missed the net, the North Stars took only 17

In the last three games, the Kings have directed 184 shots at the opponents’ net, and 93 shots -- over 50% of them -- haven’t required the goalie to make a save. Not coincidentally, the Kings have a grand total of 5 goals in the last three games.
These stats show exactly why Murray's "offense" doesn't work in the new NHL. You can't just have your defensemen stand at the blue line and fire shots at the net. You need to have all 5 players skating in the offensive zone to make the defenders chase and open up shooting lanes. Keeping 2 of your players static at the blue line allows the defending team to setup shop in the middle of the zone and deflect the 3 forwards to the outside and clog up the shooting lanes. Even when the Kings get a good cylce going, there isn't anyone skating through the slot or dropping down for a backdoor play.

Watch other playoff teams, they do this all of the time. They use all 5 players on the ice in the offensive zone.

The Kings have Doughty, yet they almost never use him correctly in the offensive zone. Haven't you noticed that when Doughty does jump into the attack, the forwards mostly have no idea where to go? Remember when Doughty was below the net to support the forwards on attack and then drifted into the slot for a one-timer? Remember when he actually got the pass and scored? Yeah, that is what needs to happen more, but Murray's "system" isn't setup for this style of attack.

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03-28-2010, 10:23 AM
  #108
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Its concerning and frustrating that the Kings have hit a wall since the break, but it is not unusual for any team to go through periods like this.

I don't always like TM's use of certain players, and maybe his system is offensively restrictive, but this system did get the Kings a bunch of wins, and have seated them nicely in playoff contention. Maybe as some speculated when he was hired, he was an excellent teaching coach who would take them so far, and would be replaced when they make it deeper in the playoffs which probably isn't this year (but in the playoffs anything can happen)

Quick has come up big when needed in the season.
Kopitar has made a huge step forward.
We have had secondary scoring, and a much improved pk.

If the core of youth on this team struggle, squeak in the playoffs and even bow out the first round, it will still be an invaluable experience needed to understand what it takes to compete at this level and point in the season, imo.

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03-28-2010, 12:13 PM
  #109
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I was definitely not surprised to see Auger on the ice. He is headed toward McGeough-like status. He calls everything, he calls nothing...you always know you're in for a weird game with him calling it.

Dallas played better on the PP and deserved the win.

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03-28-2010, 12:42 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by two out of three View Post
I'm not BLAMING any certain player.. But theres "veteran presences" on this team that can barely even play out there, when we have more talented, skilled players in the system.
They may be more talented or skilled but they dont fit the roles that the veterans do. You cant put a guy with top 6 potential on the 4th line and expect him to succeed playing a role hes not fit for.

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03-28-2010, 12:44 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
So after a night's sleep to cool off I feel I should clarify a few things (if anyone actually cares what I have to say): First, I don't think this team won't make the playoffs. I don't expect them to go 0-8 and have Calgary win 4 of their next 7. However, I'm particularly worried about what happens when they get to the playoffs. I get the statement that this season is not about this season, believe me, but I question how conducive to team development in the future it will be to back into the playoffs and presumably get waxed by a top team. Second, people can argue about how a slump like this was bound to happen and whatnot, but the way the slump is happening is what is most disconcerting. They have spurts where they play great, but that is followed by even longer droughts of awful play. No cohesion on the forecheck, too many blatant mistakes in the defensive zone, not enough loose puck battles won. All of these are adding up to some bad hockey for a majority of the time since the Olympic break. Something needs to happen with this team, and it needs to happen soon.

As someone who has played competitive hockey for a long time (and I still do), I can guarantee you that on even the most tight-knit teams, a string of losses and poor performances (in general) leads to negativity seeping into the dressing room and onto the ice (as much as people try to guard against it). It's only human nature. I think Brown's post game quotes last night are evidence of that. Negativity is not conducive to successful team building. I've had many a good teams ruined by overall negativity. I think it's starting to affect the players.

They've been less than impressive in their wins the past couple weeks, inconsistent in their losses (and sometimes downright terrible), and there is something that just doesn't feel right about how things are starting to go with this team. Like I said, something needs to happen soon to snap them out of it.
I agree with everything you are saying about their play lately. They aren't getting the puck in deep and when they do the first guy in on the forecheck is not being supported at all. Puck support has sucked lately.

I don't know that we are seeing negativity in the room just yet. We aren't their so we can't possibly know. However, I do have faith that Murray and especially Lombardi know exactly what is going on in the room and adjustments will be made (players moved) if it is warranted.

I still think making the playoffs is going to be an important lesson for this team as long as they compete once they get there. Even if they get knocked out fairly convincingly in the first round, they will have learned what it takes to get to the next level and be contenders and realize that they aren't there yet. If we have the right character guys on this team (and I'm betting we do) in Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Simmonds, Richardson, Quick, Johnson, etc. then they will answer the challenge over the off season and come back even stronger in October.

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Old
03-28-2010, 12:45 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
If this team makes the playoffs and gets swept by Chicago in the first round, how will that affect the team's development, and what does that accomplish?
Lombardi will call this season a tremendous success and claim that the Kings are ahead of "schedule". Then he will not sign any impact players in the off season and claim that Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, etc. need to get better to take the team to the next level. Meanwhile, we are stuck with hockey from the 70's with Murray at the helm.

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03-28-2010, 12:51 PM
  #113
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I'm sorry, but are we supposed to take you seriously with gems like this?

This may be the biggest piece of Jack Johnson homering I have ever seen. Wow.

Doughty. Kopitar. Smyth. Even ****ing Handzus.

And Modin has been consistently pretty good.
I meant most dangerous PP dman. He's more dangerous than Doughty in my opinion. Jack creates more scoring chances per alotted time than any of the people we've had at the point.

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03-28-2010, 12:54 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
I was definitely not surprised to see Auger on the ice. He is headed toward McGeough-like status. He calls everything, he calls nothing...you always know you're in for a weird game with him calling it.
HEADED TOARDS McGeough status??? It's more like he SURPASSED...backed up and ran over that status...

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03-28-2010, 12:56 PM
  #115
Sydor25
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I meant most dangerous PP dman. He's more dangerous than Doughty in my opinion. Jack creates more scoring chances per alotted time than any of the people we've had at the point.
Jack could be the most dangerous if he learns that not every shot needs to be a slap shot. A well timed wrist shot is essential on the PP. When he had it in the slot last night and hesitated, that is when he needs to just wrist the shot on net. He gets way too many slap shots blocked to be truly effective on the PP.

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03-28-2010, 01:02 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Lombardi will call this season a tremendous success and claim that the Kings are ahead of "schedule". Then he will not sign any impact players in the off season and claim that Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, etc. need to get better to take the team to the next level. Meanwhile, we are stuck with hockey from the 70's with Murray at the helm.
I'm always flamed for that............ but this is the reality.
At least someone else agrees with me, i'mnot alone anymore

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03-28-2010, 01:38 PM
  #117
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The team looks to be tuning out Murray, as it did in 05 with the other Murray. Why was the top line reunited when Kopi, Richardson, Simmons looked very good together???? TM needs to be replaced. Dave Tippet would have been perfect here, but Dean somehow thought TM was the right guy. The way they're playing right now, will pretty much guarantee a first round exit.

My wish list for next season, A NEW COACH, and Kovi.

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03-28-2010, 01:40 PM
  #118
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I meant most dangerous PP dman. He's more dangerous than Doughty in my opinion. Jack creates more scoring chances per alotted time than any of the people we've had at the point.
Are you having Jack Johnson's child? Jesus man open your eyes. The kid hasn't been that good. He's shown flashes of some great play, but overall he's a numbskull in his own zone and can't put the puck on net to save his life.

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03-28-2010, 01:57 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Lombardi will call this season a tremendous success and claim that the Kings are ahead of "schedule". Then he will not sign any impact players in the off season and claim that Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, etc. need to get better to take the team to the next level. Meanwhile, we are stuck with hockey from the 70's with Murray at the helm.
I would like to know how you make that statement with a straight face. Lombardi has demonstrated his unwillingness to spend money on a big contract just to spend it. The player has to be the right fit and want to come here.

Exhibit #1: Offer made to Marion Hossa
Exhibit #2: Trade made for Ryan Smyth
Exhibit #3: Contract signed by Rob Scuderi (slightly overpaid, but recognized as "the missing piece")

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03-28-2010, 02:03 PM
  #120
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... Well, it sucked to see a poor result like that, but I wasnít going to let the Kings ruin my Saturday night. Itís nice to see the panic train in full throttle; not unlike what I expected after another loss to a non-playoff team.

I COULD say a couple of things right off the bat -- the Kings hadnít lost to Dallas all season long, and they were bound to lose to them sooner or later. The Kings had successfully killed off 44 of their last 48 penalties, and they were bound to have a bad PK night sooner or later. Those are just examples of regressing to the mean, and the law of averages. But thatís lazy analysis; I kept thinking there HAD to be something more specific that was ailing the team during this three-game losing streak.

And I think I found out what it was. Check out these numbers from the past three games:

3/24 @ Col ... Kings took 31 shots that were blocked or missed the net, the Nordiques took only 21
3/25 @ StL ... Kings took 32 shots that were blocked or missed the net, the Blues took only 13
3/27 @ Dal ... Kings took 30 shots that were blocked or missed the net, the North Stars took only 17

In the last three games, the Kings have directed 184 shots at the opponentsí net, and 93 shots -- over 50% of them -- havenít required the goalie to make a save. Not coincidentally, the Kings have a grand total of 5 goals in the last three games.

Itís not about effort here; itís retarded to think that the Kings would come this far and get to the brink of their first playoff berth since the French Revolution, and choose this time to quit. Itís also useless to compare this team to the 05-06 Kings; 8 of the top 9 scorers from that team are no longer around. Itís a completely different group, and a different makeup. To the casual observer, any team that is struggling to score is going to look lethargic ... but in this case, looks are deceiving. The Kings are working hard, theyíre busting their a**es out there and out-chancing their opposition -- but their efficiency isnít there. Their shot execution has deserted them. Is this a sign of fatigue? That, I donít know. But it was plain to see that the problems in getting their shots through to the goalie are in their heads. I saw several times players passing up a shot in order to try and set up a better one. Theyíre pressing. The shot execution problem is keeping their scoring down, and that is in turn magnifying their errors on the defensive end, causing the players to press even more.

Far be it for me to say that a coach with as much experience as Terry Murray would be in panic mode right now, but the game-to-game shuttling of the lines looks like panic has set in to me. Also, I canít believe that weíre coming up on game 75 and Murray STILL thinks he can get away with sending Quick out there to start every game and not feel the effects. Mentally, Quick has to be fried. He doesnít have Martin Brodeurís ability, nor does he have the defense in front of him that Brodeur is accustomed to. Itís just suicide to handle his number one in this manner, and a more hockey-conscious media would have already called him out on it at this point. Iím not calling for Murray to be fired, mind you -- I think Terry is an average coach, a journeyman; heís exactly what he was hired to be: not great, not bad, a fair-to-middling coach who is able to teach the young kids. Iím beginning to see why he hasnít won a Cup in the 78 years heís been an NHL coach. He hasnít won a playoff game as a head coach since 1997, which was the year of his terrible goaltender-handling debacle in the SC Finals. I have my doubts that this man is going to be the one to lead the Kings to the land of the elite. To respectability, yes; to elite, no.
Never, I mean NEVER have I read a post by JT that I have agreed with 100%.

This...this is Gold Jerry!

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03-28-2010, 02:20 PM
  #121
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Are you having Jack Johnson's child? Jesus man open your eyes. The kid hasn't been that good. He's shown flashes of some great play, but overall he's a numbskull in his own zone and can't put the puck on net to save his life.
Can't put the puck on net? Prove that please. First of all, every other one of our dmen practically hit defenders more than the net. Jack doesn't shoot if there is a chance it will go the other way. He was quoted as saying that. Second, when you have a heavy shot, it's going to miss some. Rob Blake is an NHL great and he doesn't even come close to the amount of accurate SOG's. Doug Gilmore on the point? Umm, Jarrod Freaking Stoll. Besides, Jack has spent quite a bit of the year playing on his off side.

Take a look at the two Jack Johnsons. One Jack Johnson is tenative offensively. The guy and his partner play 2 feet behind the blue line. He is unsure of his mate. That Jack plays with Randy Jones, Drewiske (who has been the epitome of terrible since his return), SoD who after month one has somehow become an embarrasment, and recently Peter Harrold. The other Jack is confident, has no problems passing to his d partners and plays like he has all the weight lifted off his shoulders. The same Jack who was arguably the second best american Dman. The Jack that plays with Drew Doughty and recently at the olympics. When he and Drew played together everyone here and the main board were comparing that pairing to the Bhawks and Preds. Unfortunately, unlike Drew, Jack doesn't get the benefit of playing with our other sound Dmen. Our back end of the D is without a doubt the worst in the NHL.

As to my point, Jack's PP value comes from him being strong at keeping the puck in, being the only dman that leads his target instead of passing the puck to their skate or where they were at the time of the pass, and his uncanny ability to sneak to the net. His ability to draw time by toeing the line is on par or better than Doughty's. Those are the things you need from a PP defenseman.

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03-28-2010, 03:16 PM
  #122
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On the selfishly bright side, I didn't see one second of this game.

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03-28-2010, 03:39 PM
  #123
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I meant most dangerous PP dman. He's more dangerous than Doughty in my opinion. Jack creates more scoring chances per alotted time than any of the people we've had at the point.
Seriously, touting Jack Johnson's "creativity" and then knocking Modin for bad decision making is about the most backwards, ridiculously wrong statements you will ever see on this or any other hockey board.

Jack Johnson. The man who, while on the point on the PP, decided to take a slap shot horizontally across the ice towards the half boards just two games ago. You want to defend this guy?

JJ does almost nothing right. He holds on to the puck just past the last possible second to make the right play, then turns it over. He peels off of breakout plays to regroup for no apparent reason. He can't hit the net from 50 feet out. He tries to shoot it thru players instead of moving the puck quickly, and avoids wrist shots like they were the plague.

He is the worst possible player to put out on the PP right now because he doesn't use his teammates. They have no faith that he will make the smart, simple play. Scuderi, who has almost no offensive ability at all is a better choice because at least he will keep it simple and follow the system.


Now Modin does everything "right". He's strong on his stick, strong on the puck, plays hard, grinding hockey and ALWAYS makes smart decisions. That is just about the only part of his game that is still in effect after all these years and injuries - no speed, doesn't get to spots to use his cannon, but he always moves the puck forward and into positions where his teammates can keep the play moving.

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03-28-2010, 03:47 PM
  #124
Chazz Reinhold
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I agree with everything you are saying about their play lately. They aren't getting the puck in deep and when they do the first guy in on the forecheck is not being supported at all. Puck support has sucked lately.

I don't know that we are seeing negativity in the room just yet. We aren't their so we can't possibly know. However, I do have faith that Murray and especially Lombardi know exactly what is going on in the room and adjustments will be made (players moved) if it is warranted.

I still think making the playoffs is going to be an important lesson for this team as long as they compete once they get there. Even if they get knocked out fairly convincingly in the first round, they will have learned what it takes to get to the next level and be contenders and realize that they aren't there yet. If we have the right character guys on this team (and I'm betting we do) in Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Simmonds, Richardson, Quick, Johnson, etc. then they will answer the challenge over the off season and come back even stronger in October.
Obviously we don't know exactly what's going on in the room, but the way Brown answered the questions last night is what made me think that. I don't think that was basic frustration, there seemed to be a little more behind it.

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Old
03-28-2010, 03:48 PM
  #125
JMFJ 3
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: French Polynesia
Posts: 4,770
vCash: 500
Stoll is a liability on the powerplay, I even prefer Randy Jones to him.

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