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Old
03-28-2010, 04:44 PM
  #101
lastcupever75
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Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
These are still development years, and should be paid accordingly.
.
even though he's still developing, he's playing top minutes on the 1st D unit right now.

if the FO could sign him for $3M/yr, they would be foolish not to lock him up now

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03-28-2010, 06:56 PM
  #102
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All I know is Goligoski has a lot of game film to study and work to do this summer.

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03-28-2010, 06:58 PM
  #103
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Looks to me like all the defensemen could benefit from some film study. They are just awful this year, except for Orpik.

It's amazing to learn, in retrospect, how good Gill and Scuderi actually were.

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03-28-2010, 07:11 PM
  #104
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I have never seen a team give up so many breakaways. Letang seems to be on the ice for all of them.

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03-28-2010, 07:21 PM
  #105
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Um I like Letang but I don't think he's worth any more than a deal similar to these:

2 years, $6 million

6 years, $15 million

I would go just a shade lower if I could. Everyone says it's not just about production, and that's true, but production is what gets you more cash, not skating well or passing well. Look no further than Leopold's salary.

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03-28-2010, 08:31 PM
  #106
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It wasn't just "about production" with Staal when we re-signed him, and it's not just about production with Letang either. Going forward, we are going to need Letang. I don't see how we won't.

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03-28-2010, 09:07 PM
  #107
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a 48 and 62 point peason got Campbell 7.2 million... Campbell also sucked at playing actual D with Buffalo... I think Letang deserves at least 4 million.. on the open market if he was a UFA he could command een as high as 4.5-5

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03-28-2010, 09:19 PM
  #108
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a 48 and 62 point peason got Campbell 7.2 million... Campbell also sucked at playing actual D with Buffalo... I think Letang deserves at least 4 million.. on the open market if he was a UFA he could command een as high as 4.5-5
You'd have to be on so many sorts of drugs to believe the Pens will pay him more than Staal.

Four is a stretch. Adding 500K per year to that isn't worth it.

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03-28-2010, 10:06 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by hockeydadx2 View Post
Looks to me like all the defensemen could benefit from some film study. They are just awful this year, except for Orpik.

It's amazing to learn, in retrospect, how good Gill and Scuderi actually were.
People also quickly forget how awful Scuderi was when he was younger. In fact, I recall YOU bagging on him continuously when I first got here.

Defensemen take longer to develop, and while it's a cliche to say it, I wish people would realize it around here. Even two seasons ago people were declaring Orpik a bust who'd never see top-pairing action and was, at best, a #6 guy. People wanted Shero fired because he re-signed Scuderi.

So, a little more patience and long-term perspective would benefit this board just as much as some good film study for the defensemen.

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03-28-2010, 10:43 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by hockeydadx2 View Post
Looks to me like all the defensemen could benefit from some film study. They are just awful this year, except for Orpik.

It's amazing to learn, in retrospect, how good Gill and Scuderi actually were.
It's amazing to learn, how easily people forget that those two would get hemmed into their own end consistently and were a huge liability when the puck was dumped in behind them...

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03-28-2010, 10:52 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
People also quickly forget how awful Scuderi was when he was younger. In fact, I recall YOU bagging on him continuously when I first got here.

Defensemen take longer to develop, and while it's a cliche to say it, I wish people would realize it around here. Even two seasons ago people were declaring Orpik a bust who'd never see top-pairing action and was, at best, a #6 guy. People wanted Shero fired because he re-signed Scuderi.

So, a little more patience and long-term perspective would benefit this board just as much as some good film study for the defensemen.
All the film study in the world won't help until there's a change in the defense coaching (is Yeo still doing that?).

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03-28-2010, 11:11 PM
  #112
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I have never seen a team give up so many breakaways. Letang seems to be on the ice for all of them.
there was one today where he was leading the rush and still was the closest guy back to the leaf on the break away.

thats on the foward who were last to come into the zone (sid,max)

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03-28-2010, 11:12 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
People also quickly forget how awful Scuderi was when he was younger. In fact, I recall YOU bagging on him continuously when I first got here.

Defensemen take longer to develop, and while it's a cliche to say it, I wish people would realize it around here. Even two seasons ago people were declaring Orpik a bust who'd never see top-pairing action and was, at best, a #6 guy. People wanted Shero fired because he re-signed Scuderi.

So, a little more patience and long-term perspective would benefit this board just as much as some good film study for the defensemen.

dont forget about the good percentage of posters that wanted to get rid of brooks too when he first broke in

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Old
03-28-2010, 11:32 PM
  #114
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Scuderi was such a late bloomer, like 28-29yrs old late bloomer. Some guys take longer to develop while others are quicker. Letang has shown he can be good but then goes in these funks where it's like he forgot what he learned. Goligoski was great the first 2 months but got hurt and has been wishy-washy since. But to say Letang is 4m/yr material, even on the open market...no way.

3.5m is about right and just enough of an over payment to get him to put pen to paper but his camp apparently refused that, I am still hoping it's a rumor but it's the 2nd or 3rd time I've heard this "rumor."

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03-29-2010, 12:01 AM
  #115
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Remember CP's assessment of Scuds after his first ever callup to the Pens? He called Scuderi a "mistake-free" defenseman. This was back in the mid 00s.

There is a reason why the organization stuck with Scuds for so many years. Hard to believe folks, but sometimes these NHL organizations actually assess players better than HF fans do. Shocking I know.

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Old
03-29-2010, 12:11 AM
  #116
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Scuderi was described back then as a guy that "if you didn't hear his name the whole game, he's doing his job." Which was right, he quietly does his thing and gets no attention for it but tons of praise by his teammates. He took a while to develop but in the end it was worth it, got the Pens a 3rd cup and now his kids have a pretty sweet college fund.

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03-29-2010, 12:15 AM
  #117
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the worst thing to happen with scud's development in his early years here was being paired with melichar.

aint gonna relive forecheck pressure when you pass it D to D with josef on the other side.

he handled the puck like a hand grenade

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Old
03-29-2010, 12:52 AM
  #118
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I think anytime we are discussing Letang and Goligoski we need to be reminded of the growing pains when developing an NHL defenceman within the system. Orpik wasn't a regular in the Pens line-up until he was 23, after 3 years of college and 2 full years in the AHL.. that was '03/'04, and he was still NO WHERE NEAR the solid defenceman he is now. Whitney was developed almost identically.. not a regular until age 23, with 3 years of college and a full season in the AHL, and it wasn't until his second full NHL season where his offensive game took off (did his defensive play ever??).

Goligoski is from the same developmental route, 3 years college, 1 1/2 in the minors, and really only in his first FULL year in "the show," coming off a visible injury. Letang went straight from the CHL to the NHL with nothing more than a month in the A.. Being his third year in the bigs, he is still only 22..

Point being, the fact that Goligoski and Letang are on par in their development to proven players like that has a much more positive twist that what is being thrown around on here. IMO Letang is ahead, and already showing top pairing ability at this early stage in his development.

Something for everyone to think about... If today was the day that the '07 version of Whitney signed his 6 yr/24mil contract with the pens.. would you feel better having a 2010 version of Letang receiving that deal instead?

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Old
03-29-2010, 01:05 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenyas most fly rep View Post
if you re-do the 2005 NHL Enrty Draft, Letang would most likely be a top 15 pick.
With that in mind, I bet that most of the teams would be more than happy to give up a 1st and a 3rd for Letang, then make space for his salary.
Draft picks are so over-rated.(well maybe not the top 10 but besides that there's a lot of uncertainty whereas someone like Letang is already proven at the NHL level.)
Why would you re-sign Letang to 3.5?
He stinks. I can't stand Letang and Gogo...I am sick of those two...they really remind of Andy Delmore.
They have ZERO defenisve instict, ZERO.
I'd rather have two defenseman who know how to play defense.

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03-29-2010, 01:26 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SideshowBob View Post
Why would you re-sign Letang to 3.5?
He stinks. I can't stand Letang and Gogo...I am sick of those two...they really remind of Andy Delmore.
They have ZERO defenisve instict, ZERO.
I'd rather have two defenseman who know how to play defense.
When Scott Niedermayer first broke into the league he wasn't good in his own zone. He had lousy positioning and was inconsistent.

Jay Bouwmeester played very poor defense his second and third season. Couldn't read the play correctly most of the time. Value was pretty low.

Hmm....

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Old
03-29-2010, 01:33 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Elephant In The Room View Post
When Scott Niedermayer first broke into the league he wasn't good in his own zone. He had lousy positioning and was inconsistent.

Jay Bouwmeester played very poor defense his second and third season. Couldn't read the play correctly most of the time. Value was pretty low.

Hmm....
So did Andy Delmore...and Letang seems to have regressed.

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Old
03-29-2010, 01:40 AM
  #122
Letang fan 58
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Um I like Letang but I don't think he's worth any more than a deal similar to these:

2 years, $6 million

6 years, $15 million

I would go just a shade lower if I could. Everyone says it's not just about production, and that's true, but production is what gets you more cash, not skating well or passing well. Look no further than Leopold's salary.
I'd do a 6 yr 20 mil deal for him. less than we gave to whitney and letang hasnt put up the 59 pt season that whitney had but letang has a hell of a lot better defensive game.

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Old
03-29-2010, 01:58 AM
  #123
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The difference is Scuderi and Orpik were not getting the big shutdown D money at a time when they weren't playing like ones yet. Scuds played for a paltry 725k cap hit before he left, and Orpik made under 2 million IIRC. They improved their game and THEN got paid. Not immediately after their ELCs were through.

I don't want to dump Letang, far from it. But we cannot afford to overpay for his services at this point of his career. We already did this with Staal to a certain extent which makes it even more important that we don't do it again and worsen our cap situation even more.

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03-29-2010, 02:56 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SideshowBob View Post
So did Andy Delmore...and Letang seems to have regressed.
Nobody here has a crystal ball. But I am more inclined to think that Letang has a much higher ceiling and more to offer once he finds consistency and his game matures, than Any Elmore did.

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03-29-2010, 03:15 AM
  #125
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Letang's regressed? Bylsma must disagree since he plays him a ton of minutes.

People love to nitpick about players on boards like these. Shero said it best though "All players have flaws in their game" Letang is no exception, but he is a young D-Man that is extremely mobile and has significant potential at both ends of the rink, so he will be getting paid.

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