HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Coburn contract talks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-30-2010, 06:40 AM
  #76
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Carle for a 1st rounder and maybe someone else?

So maybe like this if Carle is traded and Syvret is on the team:

Pronger-Syvret
Timonen-Krajicek
Coburn-Parent
Barts

Somethine like that. I think that Syvret can learn a LOT from Pronger.
Syvret will not be our top pairing D man next year. If we trade Carle, I would assumed Coburn gets first shot with Pronger, then Parent.

Syvret is very soft

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 10:46 AM
  #77
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Like I said before, I agree. Carle is the most expendable and the least important to the team out of all our d-men. His contract also isn't bad enough to the point where it's unmovable.

Sadly though, I don't think Holmgren will deal Carle.
Carle has done nothing to even justify being moved. His play has improved immensely. Coburn has been in regression now for two seasons. And Coburn has played with an immensely talented defenseman named Kimmo Timonen, someone who seems to be discarded around here now that Pronger's in town.

Fact is, Carle came into camp, busted his ass to become a better defenseman and was rewarded for it. Coburn came in with a sense of entitlement knowing he was going to be handed a top four role and he's floundered miserably. The fact that Coburn has been relegated to the third pairing, and even then his play there has been spotty at best, should be more than enough to convince everyone he just doesn't have the makeup to be a top four guy.

Honestly, I don't get it. The Coburn love on here continues to baffle me. And this is not an issue about a "young defenseman finding his way." This is about a guy who has been in the league now for four seasons and by now, guys usually find their niche, especially defensemen. This was a guy who was expected to make a big jump forward and instead, he's taken a big dump. Let Coburn be someone else's problem.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 11:05 AM
  #78
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Carle's play is completely overrated. He still can't take a hit, or play the PK, he is slow for a puck mover, and makes stupid decisions on breakouts.


Last edited by HoverCarle*: 03-30-2010 at 11:36 AM.
HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 11:06 AM
  #79
KonaRider
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 189
vCash: 500
As a Vancouver fan, Coburn is a type of player that is very enticing to me. 6'5", 220lbs, relatively young, on paper sounds great. Obviously I do not get to watch him very often as we play you pretty much once per year.

However what I have read about him here, people aren't that happy with him. What would it take for us to get him from you guys?

Would Cory Schneider and a defensive prospect be enough for Coburn alone?

KonaRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 11:06 AM
  #80
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Honestly, I don't get it. The Coburn love on here continues to baffle me. And this is not an issue about a "young defenseman finding his way." This is about a guy who has been in the league now for four seasons and by now, guys usually find their niche, especially defensemen. This was a guy who was expected to make a big jump forward and instead, he's taken a big dump. Let Coburn be someone else's problem.
but 4 years is not a lot for a defenseman. Is it? Defenseman come around at 26-27.

Unless Coburn feels that he is worth over 2M a year I would keep him.

Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 11:36 AM
  #81
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaRider View Post
As a Vancouver fan, Coburn is a type of player that is very enticing to me. 6'5", 220lbs, relatively young, on paper sounds great. Obviously I do not get to watch him very often as we play you pretty much once per year.

However what I have read about him here, people aren't that happy with him. What would it take for us to get him from you guys?

Would Cory Schneider and a defensive prospect be enough for Coburn alone?
Might be enough, depending on the prospect. We would probably rather a draft pick though. Like a 2nd

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 02:27 PM
  #82
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
but 4 years is not a lot for a defenseman. Is it? Defenseman come around at 26-27.

Unless Coburn feels that he is worth over 2M a year I would keep him.
The problem though Kaktus is that usually by year four, you usually know what you're going to get with a player. Coburn has shown no sense of urgency in improving his game and even when he was handed a top 4 role on the team, he pissed it away with his continual mistake prone game. At some point, you have to cut your losses. He's been in the league long enough now that he knows what he needs to do in order to be successful. You can only have a coach give direction for so long before a player decides whether they want to be a great player or not. And that's what infuriates me about Coburn. He has the talent and ability to be a very special player. The 2007 - 2008 season, he showed that he could be a dominant player who can take over a game. However, since that time, he's done nothing but rest on his laurels and has decided not to get better.

Stevens gets blamed enough on here for the regression of some players, but Coburn has even shown under Laviolette and McCarthy that he still doesn't get it. That to me is more than enough reason to show him the door. He's had everything handed to him in Philadelphia and the guy has done nothing but continually bite the hand that feeds him. Million dollar talent, but ten cent work ethic

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 02:37 PM
  #83
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,026
vCash: 500
I'd prefer to keep both Carle and Coburn if possible. I think Coburn will rebound to some degree, but I also believe that Carle gets a raw deal from Flyers fans. He's not perfect and he makes too much money, but he is pretty steady and meshes very well with Pronger. I don't care if he plays well because of Pronger or not, but only the fact that he performs period. When he was out, whoever we had at the moment playing with Pronger didn't look close to as good as Carle

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 02:50 PM
  #84
captainpaxil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaRider View Post
As a Vancouver fan, Coburn is a type of player that is very enticing to me. 6'5", 220lbs, relatively young, on paper sounds great. Obviously I do not get to watch him very often as we play you pretty much once per year.

However what I have read about him here, people aren't that happy with him. What would it take for us to get him from you guys?

Would Cory Schneider and a defensive prospect be enough for Coburn alone?
what are your thoughts on sob?

captainpaxil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 02:50 PM
  #85
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
I'd prefer to keep both Carle and Coburn if possible. I think Coburn will rebound to some degree, but I also believe that Carle gets a raw deal from Flyers fans. He's not perfect and he makes too much money, but he is pretty steady and meshes very well with Pronger. I don't care if he plays well because of Pronger or not, but only the fact that he performs period. When he was out, whoever we had at the moment playing with Pronger didn't look close to as good as Carle
After a full season he damn well better look better on his own pairing than the guy filling in for a game.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 02:51 PM
  #86
tuckrr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Carle's play is completely overrated. He still can't take a hit, or play the PK, he is slow for a puck mover, and makes stupid decisions on breakouts.
carle's over-ratedness has been over-rated this year.

he has been phenomenal, easily our 3rd best dman (By leaps and bounds)

he has a bunch of take aways at key times, AND is our only offensive defenseman (other than when pronger decides hes gonna score on chicago)

tuckrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 02:54 PM
  #87
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
1st of all this is his 3rd full NHL season not his 4th and what do you mean usually? imo a lot of defensmen start playing their best at 26-27.

I agree, Braydon is frustrating to watch especially his turn overs and minor penalties in 08-09. This season he got better with minor penalties but still needs to work on his turn overs.

I am not blaming all of it on Stevens but he definitely has a lot to do with it.

Once again, personally I am not ready to cut losses with Cobrun because I do not think we have anyone good or better to replace Cobrun. I think he will get better, he still throws over 120hits and block over 110 shots a season, he can log big minutes and imo he can step up if injury occurs. We all know that he is big and fast and he can really have that bright future we all want for him. He has problems defending east to west. A lot of young players do.

We kept Jones but will trade Coburn? what kind of organization are we?

Unless he is asking for some unreasonable $ I would keep him.

Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 03:00 PM
  #88
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,895
vCash: 500
The only reason the Flyers kept Jones was because of their stupid misguided sense of loyalty they have towards players. It also helped Jones that he was Stevens' and Holmgren's "boy" so to speak. I agree about keeping Jones over Coburn - they should have dealt Jones when they had the opportunity to do so. However, Coburn is quickly becoming Jones 2.0 and I'd rather they just cut their losses.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 03:11 PM
  #89
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
O come on. You are comparing Coburn to Jones now? Thats just unfair.

If you check Coburns stats last season it's pretty good even if you decide to compare them to Timonen. Block shots, gva, tka, points, time on the ice etc etc etc

but we remember Malkin or Crosby going through the middle of the ice and scoring goals while Coburn was on the ice.

Maybe Coburn will never become solid #2 as we all hoped but he still has all the right tools to become solid #3. So why trade #3 unless he will as for **** load of $ as soon as this off season?

Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 03:15 PM
  #90
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,997
vCash: 500
Ottawa's looking for puck movers. Chance to get rid of Carle for something good?

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 04:15 PM
  #91
orange is better
than other colors...
 
orange is better's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,737
vCash: 500
i'd do Schneider and a 2nd for Coburn. Sounds reasonable, right?

orange is better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 05:56 PM
  #92
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
i'd do Schneider and a 2nd for Coburn. Sounds reasonable, right?
I'd rather not move Coburn if we can avoid it.

Based on some Vancouver fan reactions, Coburn doesn't necessarily fill a need. They want an immediate #2 guy (which I guess he can be at a stretch) or a steady #5 guy (which is more Parent.

Again, that's according to Vancouver fans that have discussed this.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 06:03 PM
  #93
Spongolium*
Potato Magician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bridgend,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 8,653
vCash: 500
I would snap their hands off for schnieder and a 2nd for coburn. I would also give up coburn for Price or halak straight up too

Spongolium* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 06:40 PM
  #94
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
O come on. You are comparing Coburn to Jones now? Thats just unfair.
Ok, maybe that's a little unfair. However, Coburn has become very Therien like and nobody can dispute that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
If you check Coburns stats last season it's pretty good even if you decide to compare them to Timonen. Block shots, gva, tka, points, time on the ice etc etc etc
I can't compare Coburn to Timonen because Timonen is world's ahead in terms of being a top defenseman. However, if you compare Coburn to the rest of the guys from his draft year, he's been very disappointing, especially the last two years. And now that Holmgren has voiced his displeasure, it's likely he's not going to get a shot at redemption. Like I said, Coburn was expected to be a huge part of the top four this year and he disappointed right from camp. The biggest mistake that Stevens made was that he told Coburn he was going to be in the top four. If he would have made Coburn work for it, maybe we wouldn't see what we're seeing now. However, it's two years in a row that he's been a major disappointment. This year is an even bigger step backwards than last season was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
but we remember Malkin or Crosby going through the middle of the ice and scoring goals while Coburn was on the ice.
I also remember Malkin and Crosby turning him inside out on several goals as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Maybe Coburn will never become solid #2 as we all hoped but he still has all the right tools to become solid #3. So why trade #3 unless he will as for **** load of $ as soon as this off season?
It's not the tools that I'm worried about. The guy is one of the most physically gifted hockey players I've ever witnessed. He's big, he can play mean when he wants to, he can skate like the wind, he can run a power play, he can play a shut down role, he can absolutely take over a game when he wants to. That kind of ability is absolutely awesome and Coburn has it. What worries me is that so far, Coburn hasn't shown the ability to put it all together from a mental and hockey IQ stand point. Honestly, how much more of a chance can the franchise continue to give this guy?

Right now, there are four young defensemen in Adirondack who are chomping at the bit. While Bourdon and Marshall could use another year of seasoning (and coaching from a good coach, but that's another story on it's own), there is Lehtivuori and Bodrov who are ready to make the jump. At what point do you cut your losses with Coburn. Let's not forget that the man has had the opportunity to be coached by Eric Desjardins and Derian Hatcher. Now, he's getting coached by Kevin McCarthy (he who helped turned around Joni Pitkanen in Carolina). I mean, if he can't put it together under McCarthy's watch, I don't think he can put it together at all.

And at this point, I'd rather be able to use the premise that Coburn might turn it around and get a goaltender like Schneider AND a draft pick rather than watch Coburn disappoint again next season and then have to use him in a package just to land one player. Get something of value for him now before he has no value.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 07:51 PM
  #95
flyguy
Sean Cubeturier
 
flyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seward, Alaska
Country: United States
Posts: 6,240
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to flyguy
Letang got 3.5 for 4 years from the Pens. Although Coburn is older, they both have roughly 3 full years underneath them (Coburn had 2 20 something game years with Atlanta, which I'm ignoring for this comparison). But the main difference between Letang and Coburn is that during these 3 years, their production has gone in opposite directions respectively. They're both offensive minded dman who have the ability to be solid in their own end. They're both smooth skaters. Hopefully the Flyers, if they wish to hold onto Coburn, see that Letang got a big raise because of his progress, and deem that Coburn should not be getting a big raise because of his regression.

flyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 07:56 PM
  #96
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
Letang got 3.5 for 4 years from the Pens. Although Coburn is older, they both have roughly 3 full years underneath them (Coburn had 2 20 something game years with Atlanta, which I'm ignoring for this comparison). But the main difference between Letang and Coburn is that during these 3 years, their production has gone in opposite directions respectively. They're both offensive minded dman who have the ability to be solid in their own end. They're both smooth skaters. Hopefully the Flyers, if they wish to hold onto Coburn, see that Letang got a big raise because of his progress, and deem that Coburn should not be getting a big raise because of his regression.
Well according to Pen fans, Letang has been among their worse defenders this season..

sa cyred is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 08:24 PM
  #97
CantSeeColors
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Seychelles
Posts: 5,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Well according to Pen fans, Letang has been among their worse defenders this season..
They're expecting Letang to start picking up Gonchar's PP work as he ages (and possibly leaves via free agency this summer). That deal seems outrageously high for what he brings right now though. He's a righty, but otherwise I don't see what he has going for him and it terrifies me in the context of Coburn's contract.

CantSeeColors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 08:56 PM
  #98
Joey Mac
Registered User
 
Joey Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,007
vCash: 500
coburn needs to be traded, how many more chances do we give the guy? anybody remember joni pitkanen and how he couldn't put it together here and eventually got shipped someplace else? well that's what needs to happen to bonehead coburn

Joey Mac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 11:01 PM
  #99
CantSeeColors
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Seychelles
Posts: 5,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Mac View Post
coburn needs to be traded, how many more chances do we give the guy? anybody remember joni pitkanen and how he couldn't put it together here and eventually got shipped someplace else? well that's what needs to happen to bonehead coburn
and remember how he became the best defenseman on his team a year and a half later?

CantSeeColors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2010, 11:09 PM
  #100
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 110,008
vCash: 5792
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
and remember how he became the best defenseman on his team a year and a half later?
We all knew that it would take a market where no one really cared about him for him to excel.

That said, sandwiching a great season between two not so good ones, doesn't seem like he is a vital cog to any solution.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.