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Old
03-29-2010, 07:04 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
If we're talking bang for the buck Drury and Redden certainly belong in the conversation.

And it's not as if you're honestly assessing Avery when you call him a 20 point player. Over the last five seasons even with all the games missed he has 173 points which averages to 35 actual points per season which is good production for a third line winger even without the intangibles he brings.
Does that include the aberrational season where he scored a lot? I have bronchitis and a fever, broke up with a lady yesterday, and I'm cranky, so I apologize to everyone that I may have offended here.

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03-29-2010, 07:18 PM
  #52
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Does that include the aberrational season where he scored a lot? I have bronchitis and a fever, broke up with a lady yesterday, and I'm cranky, so I apologize to everyone that I may have offended here.
No, Avery just genuinely has averaged about 35 points per 82 games. Last season he only played 41 games between Dallas and NY. He scored 22 points (pace for 44).

This year in 69 games he has 31 (pace for 36 on a terrible offensive team).

The year before that in only 57 games he had 33 points (47 point pace).

The year before that he played in 84 games between LA and NY and scored 48 points.

Previously, in LA he had 39 points in 75 games and 28 in 76 games (his first full NHL season).

He actually averages MORE than 35 points per 82 games since his first season as a full-time NHLer.

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03-29-2010, 08:00 PM
  #53
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Does that include the aberrational season where he scored a lot? I have bronchitis and a fever, broke up with a lady yesterday, and I'm cranky, so I apologize to everyone that I may have offended here.
I'm not offended at all. I just think he's a better hockey player than you give him credit for and the same argument that people make for Drury's numbers being low this year (lack of pwp time and Torts not seeming to like him a lot) applies to Avery as well. I understand Avery's not well liked in some quarters but the Rangers off and on the past few seasons have been too easy to play against and too nice. He does take some dumb penalties but he probably draws more dumb penalties than he takes. The meltdown he had last year in the playoffs for which Torts benched him the next game was followed by Torts's own meltdown. The Rangers didn't deserve to win that series anyway and wouldn't have even been close if it weren't for Lundqvist. They were totally dominated in the first 6 games of the series.

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03-29-2010, 08:04 PM
  #54
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The Awesomeness That Is...

Sean Avery (don't freak out until you READ the whole thing).

***Mods, feel free to merge this elsewhere if you feel it doesn't deserve it's own thread. I do, simply because in trying to make a quick defense of Mr. Avery in a different thread, I came to some interesting realizations that I wanted to share with a broader audience.***

Anyone with a little bit of time on their hands could discover the following just as easily as I have, but due to mid-season trades and the Dallas suspension fiasco, Sean Avery has a pretty fragmented career statistics sheet and I don't think most Rangers fans, let alone hockey fans, realize that Sean is, well... as good as he is.

Sean began his career with the Detroit Red Wings (01-02). By now most of us know the Wings like to ease their players into the roster and so Sean only played in 36 games in his first NHL season. He played exclusively on the 4th line with no PP/PK time and finished with only 4 points. A completely inconsequential start to a career, but we should also know, by now, that you don't pass judgment on a young player in their first handfuls of games.

The next year (02-03) Sean played in 39 games for the Wings before being traded to LA were he played an additional 12. In 51 total games, the bulk of which were played on the 4th line in DET, Sean boosted his output to 15 points (24 point-per-82-game pace).

The next year (03-04), as an LA King, Sean would play his first FULL NHL season. He would again boost his output, as well as improve on his overall pace. In 76 games he managed 28 points(just over 30-per-82 pace).

The 04-05 season was lost to the lockout. When the NHL resumed the following year in 05-06, Sean's game took another big step forward. In 75 games, the pest managed 38 points (good for a 41.5-per-82 pace).

In 06-07 Sean began the season in LA. In 55 games there he managed 28 points. He was traded to the Rangers mid-season where he played in additional 29 games and put up 20 points. In 84 total games he managed 48 points (which drops to 46.8-over-82).

In 07-08 Avery only managed to dress in 57 games for the Rangers, but during that time he continued his great pace as a blue shirt (from 20-in-28 the following season) racking up 33 points (good for a 47.5-per-82 pace).

Sadly, Sean departed NY and began the 08-09 season in Dallas. He got off to a very mediocre start, putting up 10 points in 23 games. After his "sloppy seconds" fiasco Sean returned to NY where most fans welcomed him back. In just 18 games back in blue, he managed 12 points; a fantastic pace once again. In 41 total games he put up 22 points (good for a 44-per-82 pace).

Now in the 09-10 season, which has been a disappointment in all regards for NYR fans, Avery has slowed somewhat on a team that has seen tremendous offensive struggles. Still he has managed 31 points in 69 games so far (good for a 36-over-82 pace).

Somehow, despite these facts there is a league-wide perception of Sean Avery as a ~20 point player. Further, fans outside of NY feel that Avery is a cancer to whatever team he is on. While Sean may not have fit in everywhere he's played, the evidence that he is a fish-in-water in NY suggests the contrary here. In fact, while Avery has shown he is much closer to a 35-40 point player overall, he has put up 96 points in 173 career games as a Ranger; a 45.5-over-82 pace, including 09-10 which has been a down-season for everyone.

A lot of teams have pests and agitators on their roster. This includes some of the most successful teams in the league (Matt Cooke on the defending champion Penguins?). Not many of these teams can claim that their 3rd/4th line pests are nearly as productive as Sean Avery, nor as effective at... well, agitating. I know that Sean is largely loved and embraced by the Rangers fan base, but I also see a fair handful of NYR fans here on these forums who seem to dislike him. How many of you have realized that Sean Avery averages 45 points per 82 games as a Ranger? How many of you realized that Avery is AS offensively productive as he is? Did anyone realize that prior to THIS "aberration" of a season, he had averaged 51+ points-per-82 games as a Ranger?

In my opinion, Sean is as much a part of the core here in NY (in part because there is no other team in the NHL that Sean Avery should be playing for) as many others whose names are consistently mentioned. That goes from his consistent production, to his obvious popularity among many of his teammates, to doing things like calling team meeting along with Lundy. It may annoy fans of other teams that Sean "doesn't fight enough" or that he's a "turtle", but how does that hurt us? I distinctly remember Sean giving Carcillo a beating after the Gaborik fight, and by that I don't just mean that Sean dropped the gloves - I mean he clearly won that fight. So, he picks his spots. He's more effective through not fighting anyways, as players STAY annoyed by him and chase him around all night when they're not able to just drop the gloves and settle it. Let Prust fight. Let Shelley. Sean does exactly what he is supposed to do, and even when many of you think he's not contributing, he is actually one of the most consistent Rangers on this roster. Does he take dumb penalties sometimes? Sure, but it comes with the territory and he more than makes up with it with his solid "better than average" 3rd line production, the penalties he draws and the overall effect he has on opposing players. Plus as abrasive as his personality might seem to others, he's never been a cheap-shotting ******* :ahem: Fans of the 29 other NHL teams will probably never like Sean Avery, but as a die-hard Rangers fan, I say "long live Sean"


Last edited by SERE 24: 03-29-2010 at 10:07 PM.
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03-29-2010, 08:28 PM
  #55
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well i love sean avery

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03-29-2010, 08:32 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Sean Avery (don't freak out until you READ the whole thing).

***Mods, feel free to merge this elsewhere if you feel it doesn't deserve it's own thread. I do, simply because in trying to make a quick defense of Mr. Avery in a different thread, I came to some interesting realizations that I wanted to share with a broader audience.***

Anyone with a little bit of time on their hands could discover the following just as easily as I have, but due to mid-season trades and the Dallas suspension fiasco, Sean Avery has a pretty fragmented career statistics sheet and I don't think most Rangers fans, let alone hockey fans, realize that Sean is, well... as good as he is.

Sean began his career with the Detroit Red Wings (01-02). By now most of us know the Wings like to ease their players into the roster and so Sean only played in 36 games in his first NHL season. He played exclusively on the 4th line with no PP/PK time and finished with only 4 points. A completely inconsequential start to a career, but we should also know, by now, that you don't pass judgment on a young player in their first handfuls of games.

The next year (02-03) Sean played in 39 games for the Wings before being traded to LA were he played an additional 12. In 51 total games, the bulk of which were played on the 4th line in DET, Sean boosted his output to 15 points (24 point-per-82-game pace).

The next year (03-04), as an LA King, Sean would play his first FULL NHL season. He would again boost his output, as well as improve on his overall pace. In 76 games he managed 28 points(just over 30-per-82 pace).

The 04-05 season was lost to the lockout. When the NHL resumed the following year in 05-06, Sean's game took another big step forward. In 75 games, the pest managed 38 points (good for a 41.5-per-82 pace).

In 06-07 Sean began the season in LA. In 55 games there he managed 28 points. He was traded to the Rangers mid-season where he played in additional 29 games and put up 20 points. In 84 total games he managed 48 points (which drops to 46.8-over-82).

In 07-08 Avery only managed to dress in 57 games for the Rangers, but during that time he continued his great pace as a blue shirt (from 20-in-28 the following season) racking up 33 points (good for a 47.5-per-82 pace).

Sadly, Sean departed NY and began the 08-09 season in Dallas. He got off to a very mediocre start, putting up 10 points in 23 games. After his "sloppy seconds" fiasco Sean returned to NY where most fans welcomed him back. In just 18 games back in blue, he managed 12 points; a fantastic pace once again. In 41 total games he put up 22 points (good for a 44-per-82 pace).

Now in the 09-10 season, which has been a disappointment in all regards for NYR fans, Avery has slowed somewhat on a team that has seen tremendous offensive struggles. Still he has managed 31 points in 69 games so far (good for a 36-over-82 pace).

Somehow, despite these facts there is a league-wide perception of Sean Avery as a ~20 point player. Further, fans outside of NY feel that Avery is a cancer to whatever team he is on. While Sean may not have fit in everywhere he's played, the evidence that he is a fish-in-water in NY suggests the contrary here. In fact, while Avery has shown he is much closer to a 35-40 point player overall, he has put up 96 points in 173 career games as a Ranger; a 45.5-over-82 pace, including 09-10 which has been a down-season for everyone.

A lot of teams have pests and agitators on their roster. This includes some of the most successful teams in the league (Matt Cooke on the defending champion Penguins?). Not many of these teams can claim that their 3rd/4th line pests are nearly as productive as Sean Avery, nor as effective at... well, agitating. I know that Sean is largely loved and embraced by the Rangers fan base, but I also see a fair handful of NYR fans here on these forums who seem to dislike him. How many of you have realized that Sean Avery averages 45 points per 82 games as a Ranger? How many of you realized that Avery is AS offensively productive as he is?

In my opinion, Sean is as much a part of the core here in NY (in part because there is no other team in the NHL that Sean Avery should be playing for) as many others whose names are consistently mentioned. It may annoy fans of other teams that Sean "doesn't fight" or that he's a "turtle", but how does that hurt us? Let Prust fight. Let Shelley. Sean does exactly what he is supposed to do, and even when many of you think he's not contributing, he is actually one of the most consistent Rangers on this roster. Fans of the 29 other NHL teams will probably never like Sean Avery, but as a die-hard Rangers fan, I say "long live Sean"

ive been a HUGE avery fan since he got here. i never knew his style of play all that well til he came here, so ill plead guilty to that. he was the first ranger whose jersey i owned--i had a blue statue of liberty with no name on the back before that--and i was killed when he left for dallas, and elated when he came back. if his coach doesnt keep him on a short leash, i would have NO problem letting him finishing his career here. unless his production comes to a SCREETCHING halt and he cant agitate anymore. LONG LIVE SEAN!!!!!


Last edited by jacko23: 03-29-2010 at 08:37 PM. Reason: lack of clarity
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Old
03-29-2010, 08:44 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Does that include the aberrational season where he scored a lot? I have bronchitis and a fever, broke up with a lady yesterday, and I'm cranky, so I apologize to everyone that I may have offended here.
"a lady" kinda implies you have a multitude...in which case, apology not accepted!

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03-30-2010, 03:29 AM
  #58
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They cut to a camera on Phaneuf who was seen shouting something toward the Ranger bench, probably taunting Avery or making fun of him or something for getting hurt. Honestly, I don't care about that because Sean would've probably done the same if the reverse happened.

And to all the Rangers fans who were crying in the GDT about how all the Leafs fans at the ACC cheering that Avery got hurt... quit being such whiners. Are you telling me that if you were at MSG and you saw Phaneuf get hit and limp off the ice or someone like Crosby or any player you hate you wouldn't cheer also? I guarantee the Garden faithful would do the same. It's one thing to cheer over a bum leg because you know the guy will be alright. It's totally different if you are cheering for someone down on the ice and unable to get up or move, or someone like Savard needing a stretcher. That's when it gets to be outrageous.

But come on, let's not be Pittsburgh or Washington (or Montreal) carebears crying foul that they laughed at Avery getting hurt.
This is kind of disgusting to read. I don't know about the other guys here, but I never cheer on a player getting hurt. It's not a laughing matter. Yes, I would love to see Cindy get knocked 4 feet into the hair and have him sprawled across the ice like a ragdoll, but I don't want to see him get injured. Injuries are not fun. It takes a player away from what he loves to do most, it can damage his career, and the worst part of it all, it makes the player feel like he can't help his team when they need it.

I would never laugh or enjoy a player being injured. Every time I see the words "on the shelf" for ANY player, I get pretty upset. You have to feel really bad for someone getting taken away from their favourite thing to do for months at a time.

Quote:
Long explanation of why Sean Avery is a good player by Zetterqvist
Heartfully agreed. I feel myself defending Sean Avery's honor as a quality player time and time again to fellow Ranger fans. He has offensive talent despite people seeming to be consistently blind to this. He doesn't fight much, but that's only because he tries to avoid penalties to help his team. Do none of you recall the fights he's been in? He's a beast. He goes crazy in fights, and holds his own for his small size. Give the guy some credit. He's small, but he's tough. And yeah, plenty of people think because of his agitation style he's a dirtbag/*******. You're wrong. Avery agitates to draw penalties so he can win a game. It's nothing personal. I've never seen Avery purposefully attempt at injuring another player. Never seen him laugh at a player getting hurt. I've never seen him act in such a way that implies any kind of harsh personality like that.

There are bigger ********** in the league (Phaneuf, Cooke) that make dirty moves and feel no remorse for injuring other players. Anybody who compares Matt Cooke to Sean Avery does not watch both players play. Matt Cooke is a dirtbag. He tries to go for specifically dirty hits. His hit on Savard should have gotten him a 20-game suspension. Have you ever seen Avery go for a head shot, ever see him try to take someone's knee out (Ovechkin@Gonchar/Others), or push someone head-first into the boards? (Ovechkin, Chara) No. I will defend Avery until the end of time, because he is probably my favourite Ranger behind Lundqvist and debatably, Callahan. You gotta love a guy who puts his heart and soul into helping his team win.


Last edited by Panfork: 03-30-2010 at 03:40 AM.
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03-30-2010, 12:30 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
No, Avery just genuinely has averaged about 35 points per 82 games. Last season he only played 41 games between Dallas and NY. He scored 22 points (pace for 44).

This year in 69 games he has 31 (pace for 36 on a terrible offensive team).

The year before that in only 57 games he had 33 points (47 point pace).

The year before that he played in 84 games between LA and NY and scored 48 points.

Previously, in LA he had 39 points in 75 games and 28 in 76 games (his first full NHL season).

He actually averages MORE than 35 points per 82 games since his first season as a full-time NHLer.
Feeling less combative today but you are proving my point that you can't count on Avery to put in a full season. If a guy continually can't play a full season, you can't spin that into his stats would be better if he could manage to stay on the ice.

Under that logic, I'll claim that Forsberg is still the best player in the game.

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03-30-2010, 01:14 PM
  #60
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saw avery this morning. he is limping very bad. could barely walk. just passing that along with you guys.

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03-30-2010, 01:27 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Feeling less combative today but you are proving my point that you can't count on Avery to put in a full season. If a guy continually can't play a full season, you can't spin that into his stats would be better if he could manage to stay on the ice.

Under that logic, I'll claim that Forsberg is still the best player in the game.
But most of that time has not been because of suspensions, so it's not as if Avery is just an idiot who hurts his team. Avery played in 76, 75, 84, 57 (due to injury) 41 (due to the Dallas fiasco), 69 (so far this season) in his last six seasons. So outside of the one "lost" year that he split between DAL/NYR and the season before when he was injured, he hasn't missed that much time and has put up the actual numbers I mentioned, not just projected totals. Would you give up on Gaborik if he misses 30 games next season? When Avery is healthy, as a Ranger, he has produced at a 45 point-per-82-game pace, even with this slow season. So, that doesn't mean you can necessarily rely on him for 45 points a year, but if he dresses in 70 games it means you can generally expect around 35+ (still solid production from a third liner who brings more than just offense) and it's not like he's taking up a roster spot when injured, so hopefully in those handful of games you're getting production of some sort from his replacement.

Avery, for better or worse, is a leader on this team. He leads with his play sometimes, as well as when he does things like fight Carcillo, following the Gaborik/Carcillo fight, and he is evidently a leader in the locker room as well, collaborating with Lundqvist to schedule team meetings and such. He's well liked by his teammates and does a good job of drawing penalties (in excess of the ones he takes himself) and having an effect on the mental side of the game of his opponents. If you read my longer write up on Avery a few posts after my first response it's hard to argue against him. He might not have dressed in 82 games a year as a Ranger, but he is BETTER than a .5 point-per-game player, CAREER, as a blue shirt. How many on the current roster can say that?

Edit: And for my money Forsberg WAS the best player in hockey when he was Avery's age and plagued by injuries. Obviously, because he would miss so much time, other players ended up with better season totals, but when Foppa was on the ice he was the most lethal player around and I doubt many teams would not have wanted his services. Obviously Avery is nowhere near the talent Forsberg is, but the fact that he misses maybe 10+ games a season, except for DAL/NYR year, doesn't make him less productive.


Last edited by SERE 24: 03-30-2010 at 01:34 PM.
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03-30-2010, 01:38 PM
  #62
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saw avery this morning. he is limping very bad. could barely walk. just passing that along with you guys.
Thanks KI.

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03-30-2010, 02:11 PM
  #63
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For whoever says avery isn't a physical presence you're out of your mind. do you not watch the rangers? aves demolishes people and always puts his all into hits, he lays the smackdown on hits.

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03-30-2010, 02:35 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Would you give up on Gaborik if he misses 30 games next season?
Yes.

I didn't want him because of his history of breaking down, especially under the long terms he got. This season has done nothing to dissuade me. It's more of the same. When healthy, he is borderline elite, but who cares if he can't stay healthy.

If he ends up with a long, illustrious Rangers career, I will have been wrong. So far, I'm right about him, in my opinion.

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03-30-2010, 02:37 PM
  #65
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He might not have dressed in 82 games a year as a Ranger, but he is BETTER than a .5 point-per-game player, CAREER, as a blue shirt. How many on the current roster can say that?
I agree that the roster is putrid.

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03-30-2010, 07:00 PM
  #66
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If Avery could stay realitvely healthly & play in 75 games & put up 50 points I would be happy with that.

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03-30-2010, 07:55 PM
  #67
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Avery has been a huge positive for this team while he's been here. There are very few "3rd liners" or 30-40 point per season players that you can say that about in the NHL. Some people love him. Some acknowledge the good things he does but don't love him. Some don't like the way the he plays, or don't like him personally, and look past the good things on purpose.

He can be inconsistent. He can miss some games due to injury. He can not be as emotionally involved in early or midseason games as he should be. How many NHL players can you say that about? Pretty much all of them except the franchise guys like Ovechkin, etc.

I'm glad we've had Avery for the last few years. Considering his cap hit and his history with the team/fans I hope we have him for a few more. Last time he left the team really missed him and I think the same will happen the next time.

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03-30-2010, 11:58 PM
  #68
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He doesn't stay healthy. He is hated whenever he leaves a team (sometimes before, remember Modano). He isn't a scorer, by any definition. He intimidates no one with his antics. He whines to the refs incessantly. The refs can't stand him, and yes that's his fault, and costs the team he is on. He cost the Rangers dearly in the playoffs against Washington last season.

Those are all blatant negatives. What are his positives, other than some of the fans get a kick out of his antics?

I went overboard in my original post because I regard him as a gigantic negative. Apologies for that. Now instead of insulting a poster, why not post his positives.
i disagree with a lot of your points on avery. what did he cost us in the playoff series vs washington? he was stupid i agree with that in game 4, but we won the game so i dont know what he cost us.

2nd his antics do work. in the last game against philly he won that game. he changed that whole game by himself. and if we go back further, i consider him the mvp of that atlanta playoff series. kovalchuk was dropping gloves instead of scoring goals. and he was huge in the devils series. took one of the best goalies ever off his game and also put up good numbers.

now as far as his positives, from what ive been reading about this season it seems like he has emerged as a leader on the team. obviously i'm not in the locker room and can only go off what i read, but i love that in a player. i mentioned his antics already. he does stand up for guys, he goes after guys that throw hits on the rookies and he fought carcillo when no one else would. one of the biggest things that i love about avery is that while clearly not a goal scorer or a play maker he can change a game. if he is skating and throwing the hits and being effective i think it motivates other players.

all that being said i dont really like some people saying you dont win a cup with guys like avery. why not? he is a role player and he is the best at his role. every great team has role players. the lemieux comparison is a little unfair. yes they are both aggitators but claude lemieux for some reason i cant explain it was a beast in the playoffs. he has more points in the playoffs than mario. guys like gaborik might not even play that well in the playoffs. so after all that i think averys positves out weigh his negatives, especially since we have a great penalty kill. also, we could make a huge list on pros and cons with our 2 best players gaborik and henrik. meaning just about every player outside of crosby and ov have negatives to their game


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03-31-2010, 06:32 AM
  #69
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Under Renney Avery's job description was much broader. He killed penalties, got more pwp time, played some center--got plugged into the top lines more. Tortorella doesn't seem to trust him as much. Not much of a fan of Tortorella at this point but he is the coach. He has to make up his own mind. To me though he doesn't have enough of the right personnel to get away with playing the kind of game he wants his team to play and his tendency is to change the lines not to change the strategy and when you have a team trying to pressure the puck all the time up the ice you're going to take holding, tripping, hooking and interference penalties because the D are going to be caught going the wrong way more often. Maybe it's just me but it seems that he and Sean seem to have an uneasy relationship and that he has reined Sean in and that has a lot to do with his having a kind of mediocre season.

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03-31-2010, 11:24 AM
  #70
Gardner McKay
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Any body know when hes gonna be back?

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03-31-2010, 11:37 AM
  #71
94now
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Under Renney Avery's job description was much broader. He killed penalties, got more pwp time, played some center--got plugged into the top lines more. Tortorella doesn't seem to trust him as much. Not much of a fan of Tortorella at this point but he is the coach. He has to make up his own mind. To me though he doesn't have enough of the right personnel to get away with playing the kind of game he wants his team to play and his tendency is to change the lines not to change the strategy and when you have a team trying to pressure the puck all the time up the ice you're going to take holding, tripping, hooking and interference penalties because the D are going to be caught going the wrong way more often. Maybe it's just me but it seems that he and Sean seem to have an uneasy relationship and that he has reined Sean in and that has a lot to do with his having a kind of mediocre season.
Correct. Sather's assumption that Torts will eventually come to love him did not get to fruition. It looks like Totorella wants to show to everyone who believes that Avery could be a top 6 player, that they are wrong.

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03-31-2010, 11:38 AM
  #72
mullichicken25
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Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Sean Avery (don't freak out until you READ the whole thing).

***Mods, feel free to merge this elsewhere if you feel it doesn't deserve it's own thread. I do, simply because in trying to make a quick defense of Mr. Avery in a different thread, I came to some interesting realizations that I wanted to share with a broader audience.***

Anyone with a little bit of time on their hands could discover the following just as easily as I have, but due to mid-season trades and the Dallas suspension fiasco, Sean Avery has a pretty fragmented career statistics sheet and I don't think most Rangers fans, let alone hockey fans, realize that Sean is, well... as good as he is.

Sean began his career with the Detroit Red Wings (01-02). By now most of us know the Wings like to ease their players into the roster and so Sean only played in 36 games in his first NHL season. He played exclusively on the 4th line with no PP/PK time and finished with only 4 points. A completely inconsequential start to a career, but we should also know, by now, that you don't pass judgment on a young player in their first handfuls of games.

The next year (02-03) Sean played in 39 games for the Wings before being traded to LA were he played an additional 12. In 51 total games, the bulk of which were played on the 4th line in DET, Sean boosted his output to 15 points (24 point-per-82-game pace).

The next year (03-04), as an LA King, Sean would play his first FULL NHL season. He would again boost his output, as well as improve on his overall pace. In 76 games he managed 28 points(just over 30-per-82 pace).

The 04-05 season was lost to the lockout. When the NHL resumed the following year in 05-06, Sean's game took another big step forward. In 75 games, the pest managed 38 points (good for a 41.5-per-82 pace).

In 06-07 Sean began the season in LA. In 55 games there he managed 28 points. He was traded to the Rangers mid-season where he played in additional 29 games and put up 20 points. In 84 total games he managed 48 points (which drops to 46.8-over-82).

In 07-08 Avery only managed to dress in 57 games for the Rangers, but during that time he continued his great pace as a blue shirt (from 20-in-28 the following season) racking up 33 points (good for a 47.5-per-82 pace).

Sadly, Sean departed NY and began the 08-09 season in Dallas. He got off to a very mediocre start, putting up 10 points in 23 games. After his "sloppy seconds" fiasco Sean returned to NY where most fans welcomed him back. In just 18 games back in blue, he managed 12 points; a fantastic pace once again. In 41 total games he put up 22 points (good for a 44-per-82 pace).

Now in the 09-10 season, which has been a disappointment in all regards for NYR fans, Avery has slowed somewhat on a team that has seen tremendous offensive struggles. Still he has managed 31 points in 69 games so far (good for a 36-over-82 pace).

Somehow, despite these facts there is a league-wide perception of Sean Avery as a ~20 point player. Further, fans outside of NY feel that Avery is a cancer to whatever team he is on. While Sean may not have fit in everywhere he's played, the evidence that he is a fish-in-water in NY suggests the contrary here. In fact, while Avery has shown he is much closer to a 35-40 point player overall, he has put up 96 points in 173 career games as a Ranger; a 45.5-over-82 pace, including 09-10 which has been a down-season for everyone.

A lot of teams have pests and agitators on their roster. This includes some of the most successful teams in the league (Matt Cooke on the defending champion Penguins?). Not many of these teams can claim that their 3rd/4th line pests are nearly as productive as Sean Avery, nor as effective at... well, agitating. I know that Sean is largely loved and embraced by the Rangers fan base, but I also see a fair handful of NYR fans here on these forums who seem to dislike him. How many of you have realized that Sean Avery averages 45 points per 82 games as a Ranger? How many of you realized that Avery is AS offensively productive as he is? Did anyone realize that prior to THIS "aberration" of a season, he had averaged 51+ points-per-82 games as a Ranger?

In my opinion, Sean is as much a part of the core here in NY (in part because there is no other team in the NHL that Sean Avery should be playing for) as many others whose names are consistently mentioned. That goes from his consistent production, to his obvious popularity among many of his teammates, to doing things like calling team meeting along with Lundy. It may annoy fans of other teams that Sean "doesn't fight enough" or that he's a "turtle", but how does that hurt us? I distinctly remember Sean giving Carcillo a beating after the Gaborik fight, and by that I don't just mean that Sean dropped the gloves - I mean he clearly won that fight. So, he picks his spots. He's more effective through not fighting anyways, as players STAY annoyed by him and chase him around all night when they're not able to just drop the gloves and settle it. Let Prust fight. Let Shelley. Sean does exactly what he is supposed to do, and even when many of you think he's not contributing, he is actually one of the most consistent Rangers on this roster. Does he take dumb penalties sometimes? Sure, but it comes with the territory and he more than makes up with it with his solid "better than average" 3rd line production, the penalties he draws and the overall effect he has on opposing players. Plus as abrasive as his personality might seem to others, he's never been a cheap-shotting ******* :ahem: Fans of the 29 other NHL teams will probably never like Sean Avery, but as a die-hard Rangers fan, I say "long live Sean"
not trying to be an ass but this sounds like a giant list of excuses as to why he doesn't score more, mixed in with a pitty party for your man crush

i judge avery with my own eyes and this is what i've seen:

@2mil/year he's a great addition to a team....3rd liner with some edge that that verges on stupidity that can draw penalties, who's good for about 10 goals a season

@4mil/year he's a major under achiver...3rd liner with some edge that verges on stupidity that can draw penalties, who's good for about 10 goals a season

walking away from avery at that price was one of the smarter things Sather ever did

avery is, was, and always will be a 3rd/4th line talent

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03-31-2010, 12:12 PM
  #73
Gardner McKay
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
not trying to be an ass but this sounds like a giant list of excuses as to why he doesn't score more, mixed in with a pitty party for your man crush

i judge avery with my own eyes and this is what i've seen:

@2mil/year he's a great addition to a team....3rd liner with some edge that that verges on stupidity that can draw penalties, who's good for about 10 goals a season

@4mil/year he's a major under achiver...3rd liner with some edge that verges on stupidity that can draw penalties, who's good for about 10 goals a season

walking away from avery at that price was one of the smarter things Sather ever did

avery is, was, and always will be a 3rd/4th line talent
Says you, some one with no nhl experience ever.

Jaromir Jagr said during his time here Avery has the skill to be a 30 goal scorer in this league. If you expect me to dig through for hours to find the quote forget it im not going to but im pretty sure it was during the debbies series second time around.

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03-31-2010, 12:27 PM
  #74
haveandare
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Yes.

I didn't want him because of his history of breaking down, especially under the long terms he got. This season has done nothing to dissuade me. It's more of the same. When healthy, he is borderline elite, but who cares if he can't stay healthy.

If he ends up with a long, illustrious Rangers career, I will have been wrong. So far, I'm right about him, in my opinion.
What did you expect? He's played 70 games so far, has 40 goals, 2 short of his career high, and 80 points, 3 short of his career high. He's 5 in goals and tied for 10th in points in the league. I have no idea what you this guy would have to do to dissuade you - he's having a career year on debatably one of the worst rosters in the league. This season has not by any means been "more of the same" in my eyes.

As for Avery, I see where you're coming from in terms of rarely playing a full season - you're right, however that doesn't make me personally less of a fan of him. I've always really liked his game as a Ranger and he seems to be a leader on the team from what little insight non-insiders have into the team.

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Old
03-31-2010, 12:47 PM
  #75
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
@4mil/year he's a major under achiver...3rd liner with some edge that verges on stupidity that can draw penalties, who's good for about 10 goals a season
This is a fair point. If we didn't get him at half price, he'd be just another overpaid player. Some people might get over their mancrush long enough to notice the games where he does nothing.

Regardless of what he does for this team, I just don't like him. He's not the type of player I want representing the Rangers sweater. I'll be glad to see him go.

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