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Old
03-27-2010, 07:58 PM
  #501
AndyPipkin
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
If Hodgson plays wing I don't think his speed would be too much of an issue for his first season. Just have to use him effectively I think he'll be a fine NHLer.
What I like about his play is that if he sees the smart shot, he takes it without hesitation.....You can't have enough of that on a team.

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03-30-2010, 03:52 AM
  #502
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Jordan Schroeder article:
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Schroeder said he's enjoying the change from the U.S. college game. Doubtless, it's also a relief to move on from Minnesota, where his development stalled this season.

"I do like it better," he said. "Everyone up here has the ability to make plays and see the ice very well."

"He's got great vision and he made a big-time play on a goal," said Canucks assistant GM Lorne Henning, at the game to observe the prospects. "He made some great plays."
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Sc...202/story.html

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03-30-2010, 09:05 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
That's the nice way of saying. I was playing with useless scrubs.

As for Schroeder next year, I think he should play the whole year on the Moose, possibly with Hodgson. No need to rush the kids.

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03-30-2010, 09:22 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
Except that 'playing defense' in the NHL is way harder than playing defense in junior, especially for a center. I expect Hodgson to do better offensively than defensively, to be honest. Even if he does acquit himself nicely, it's not like he's going to be immediately good enough to be able to 'bail out Schroeder as long as he's not a klutz' like you say.

There's very little doubt in my mind that that line will struggle in their own end in their first year. Maybe if they were on a line with Kesler instead of Samuelsson I would agree.
I think the truth is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. There are dozens of examples of players in the NHL today that were great scorers in the juniors and can't touch the twine in the professional ranks -- most of them reside on third and fourth lines around the NHL.

Look at Ryan Kesler. It took him years to learn how to score consistently at the NHL level, but it took him about ten minutes to play proper defense.

Defense is a matter of commitment and intelligence, neither of which should be an issue for Hodgson.

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03-30-2010, 09:25 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
Even Kesler was only average defensively in his first year, and he was touted to be a top-end defensive forward from day one and had prior responsibilities in the AHL (which is much more similar than anything Hodgson will get). And IMO, Kesler had a major advantage that would have made it possible for him to step in and be great immediately in his own end-- NHL-ready size, strength, and speed.

I don't see how Hodgson is going to be able to come in raw and be defensively ready on hockey-sense alone, when he's already a little behind the 8-ball in terms of speed and strength at this point. If anything, Schroeder is the one with a chance of stepping right in without missing a beat because of his NHL-ready speed+smarts.

I'm sure he won't be awful, because it's friggen Hodgson we're talking about and maybe he'll be able to adapt ridiculously quickly, but throw another rookie with him right away and you're just asking for trouble.
Exactly. Hell, if he were only a 45-50 point Selke-worthy forward similar to a Madden or a Peca, he could arguably ask for and get 4 million from someone if he were a real ***-hole about it. Now think about that plus 75 points! There's just no way to argue around that, as far as I'm concerned.
Hodgson isn't behind the eight ball in terms of speed. He has good top-end speed. The knock on Hodgson has always been a lack of explosive first-step speed. I have no idea where that first step will be after his time off, but he'll have six months to train and work to improve it. Still, his top-end speed should be more than adequate to get him back up ice to play defense.

We're talking about a player that has been voted the smartest player in the CHL two years running. He'll be fine.

Also, Kesler certainly did not have NHL strength or size when he came into the NHL. Even now he could probably add another 10-15 pounds when he gets a few years older. In his first couple of seasons he fell down all over the place, a la Raymond.

Look, I don't think anyone is arguing that Hodgson is going to step in and be a Selke candidate, but he's an exceptionally intelligent player. This should allow him to adapt to the steep learning curve of the NHL more quickly than your average rookie (whenever that might be). Whether it would be advisable to play him with a rookie is undoubtedly a debatable point, but it's also impossible to speculate unless we see the two of them playing together.

I think it's pretty unlikely they're both on the roster next season anyway. It's probably more likely that Grabner makes the club in Demitra's slot and Hodgson is given a responsible winger with some size such as Samuelsson.


Last edited by Proto: 03-30-2010 at 09:35 AM.
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Old
03-30-2010, 10:18 AM
  #506
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Honestly, I don't see Hodgson making the jump to the NHL next season.. I also think that's perfectly ok. Last year he scored at a 0.55 PPG pace in the AHL playoffs and he followed that up by missing 3/4 of his junior season this year. If he has an amazing camp, sure. But I bet you we sign (or re-sign) a 3rd line center and Hodgson will be an injury call up.

Schroeder is a different story. He has competed against men at the college level and is now putting up a 1.5 PPG pace on a Moose team that has trouble scoring. If he continues that pace, I'd consider him a shoe in for 3rd line RW duties. Of course, I expect both to get sent down next season at some point unless they really surprise us with their production. Statistically speaking, I expect Schroeder to be the better player next season.

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Old
03-30-2010, 10:18 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
That's the nice way of saying. I was playing with useless scrubs.
One of whom was the captain and head coach's son.

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03-30-2010, 10:27 AM
  #508
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Sedin, Sedin, Burrows
Raymond, Kesler, Grabner
Samuelsson, Hodgson, Bernier
Hansen, Wellwood, Rypien

I could live with that, might need a "physical" presence on the 4th line instead of Hansen or Wellwood.

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03-30-2010, 11:06 AM
  #509
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Schroeder has 6 points in 3 games, maybe he doesn't keep that up but still makes you wonder about a) the program he was on b) the difference between NCAA and AHL hockey.

IF he continues putting up points like that, you'd have to think he could make the team next year.

Going to be real crowded at forward but it may give Gillis an opportunity to do a major upgrade on D. The 2010-11 Canucks could be dominant beyond our wildest dreams.

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Old
03-30-2010, 02:22 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Schroeder has 6 points in 3 games, maybe he doesn't keep that up but still makes you wonder about a) the program he was on b) the difference between NCAA and AHL hockey.
I agree. I am skeptical about the NCAA overall as a developmental league. Some of the arguments I hear, like "to notch prospects are better off in NCAA because they are playing against older men" strike me as a bit absurd. There is a reason these guys are nearing 25 and still in collegiate hockey. And it isn't because they are going to grad school.

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03-30-2010, 03:13 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
I agree. I am skeptical about the NCAA overall as a developmental league. Some of the arguments I hear, like "to notch prospects are better off in NCAA because they are playing against older men" strike me as a bit absurd. There is a reason these guys are nearing 25 and still in collegiate hockey. And it isn't because they are going to grad school.
The same can be said for kids in the CHL. There are plenty of guys in those leagues who are just along for the ride.

As far as I can tell, one of the main benefits to developing in the NCAA is getting to play against opponents who are more physically-developed, even if the skills may not be top-notch.

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03-31-2010, 12:00 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by KJP View Post
The same can be said for kids in the CHL. There are plenty of guys in those leagues who are just along for the ride.

As far as I can tell, one of the main benefits to developing in the NCAA is getting to play against opponents who are more physically-developed, even if the skills may not be top-notch.
Isn't it better to play against opponents with more skill? I mean, if you can learn to play against skilled players, then you should be able to adjust at the next level. IMO it's the skill plays that you want to learn to recognize and defend against. As for strength and speed you can always work on in the weight room by yourself anyway and become just as fast and strong as your opponents.

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03-31-2010, 12:57 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Isn't it better to play against opponents with more skill? I mean, if you can learn to play against skilled players, then you should be able to adjust at the next level. IMO it's the skill plays that you want to learn to recognize and defend against. As for strength and speed you can always work on in the weight room by yourself anyway and become just as fast and strong as your opponents.
For some players it is but for others that already have the skill the need to get the (as I like to call it) "Eric Lindros message" That being big or skilled is not enough you need to play alert hockey and playing against stronger players is one of the best way to learn. For guys like Schroeder NCAA makes more sense as he has the skill to play and probably dominant the WHL. But learning to play against guys in or nearing their prime makes them more ready for the pro game.

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03-31-2010, 01:08 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by CM- View Post
For some players it is but for others that already have the skill the need to get the (as I like to call it) "Eric Lindros message" That being big or skilled is not enough you need to play alert hockey and playing against stronger players is one of the best way to learn. For guys like Schroeder NCAA makes more sense as he has the skill to play and probably dominant the WHL. But learning to play against guys in or nearing their prime makes them more ready for the pro game.
At 18 Lindros was knocking full grown NHL players out of international tournaments.

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03-31-2010, 01:13 AM
  #515
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The CHL and the NCAA programs have their strength. NCAA players can benefit from state of the art workout facilities. They also benefit from playing against physically developed players. CHL players benefit from playing more of an pro-game schedule.

Some players benefit from more game experience while others benefit more from off-ice workouts.

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Old
03-31-2010, 01:35 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
At 18 Lindros was knocking full grown NHL players out of international tournaments.
If not for concussions, that guy was a gamechanging forward in his time.

I saw him once at a club a long time ago in Vancouver. He was a GIANT.

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