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Selšnne vs Kovalchuk

View Poll Results: Choose a player:
Teemu Selšnne 131 70.43%
Ilya Kovalchuk 55 29.57%
Voters: 186. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-30-2010, 06:30 AM
  #51
NWAvs
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Selanne.

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Old
03-30-2010, 08:56 AM
  #52
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TOP10 playmaking seasons (assists totals) among Selšnne and Kovalchuk:

1. Selšnne 68 (95-96)
2. Selšnne 60 (98-99)
3. Selšnne 58 (96-97)
4. Selšnne 56 (92-93)
5. Selšnne 52 (99-00)
6. Selšnne 50 (05-06)
7. Kovalchuk 48 (08-09)
8-10. Selšnne 46 (06-07)
8-10. Kovalchuk 46 (03-04)
8-10. Kovalchuk 46 (05-06)

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Old
03-30-2010, 03:10 PM
  #53
PhoenyX
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Selanne.

Nobody will ever forget his 76 goal rookie season. That record will never be touched in today's NHL. Selanne also deserves some credit for still producing at 35+ years old. He's the only player over 35 to ever score back to back 40+ goal seasons (05-06 and 06-07). He's also been on a 30-40 goal pace over the past few seasons in which he has been hampered by injuries. Pretty impressive that a guy who is nearly 40 can almost keep up with Kovy in his prime.

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Old
03-30-2010, 03:53 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Wizard Eater View Post
Kovy for sure.

If Kovy was Finnish he would be considered as great as Selanne.

It's very unfair that Selanne is considered so good mainly because of him being Finnish.

He's good, but not as good as people make him out to be. Kovy just suffers from the fact that there are more elite Russians.

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Old
03-30-2010, 08:35 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vippe View Post

Hardware, Awards, International


Selanne: Calder, (Rocket) 92-93,NHL 1st All-Star Team 92-93, 96-97
Rookie All-Star Team (1st), SM-Liiga championship 91-92

Kovalchuk: Calder, Rocket 03-04, 2nd NHL All-Star Team 03-04, NHL All-Rookie Team (1st), Olympic Bronze 02 WC Bronze 05,07 WC Gold 08,09


I'd say it's quite possible to say Kovalchuk at this point. However if he is able to cope with what Selanne did the years after he turned 26 is another thing.
You forgot to include a Stanley Cup, Olympic silver/bronze for Selanne

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Old
03-31-2010, 07:24 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100mph slapshot View Post
TOP10 playmaking seasons (assists totals) among Selšnne and Kovalchuk:

1. Selšnne 68 (95-96)
2. Selšnne 60 (98-99)
3. Selšnne 58 (96-97)
4. Selšnne 56 (92-93)
5. Selšnne 52 (99-00)
6. Selšnne 50 (05-06)
7. Kovalchuk 48 (08-09)
8-10. Selšnne 46 (06-07)
8-10. Kovalchuk 46 (03-04)
8-10. Kovalchuk 46 (05-06)
The thing most people fail to understand : the key numbers here are not the assists total, but the year where these totals were achieved.

Now if you compare players when they played in the same time :

2001-02; Kovalchuk : 51 pts. Selanne : 54 pts.
* At 18 and playing only 65 games, still managed to produce as much as Selanne.
2002-03; Kovalchuk : 67 pts. Selanne : 64 pts.
2003-04; Kovalchuk : 87 pts. Selanne : 32 pts.
2005-06; Kovalchuk : 98 pts. Selanne : 90 pts.
2006-07; Kovalchuk : 76 pts. Selanne : 94 pts.
2007-08; Kovalchuk : 87 pts. Selanne : 23 pts.
2008-09; Kovalchuk : 91 pts. Selanne : 54 pts.

Breakdown : Kovalchuk outscored Selanne from day 1, at 18. Except for one year, Kovalchuk outscored Selanne each and every year as soon as he stepped up on the NHL ice.

Selanne is a great player, and showed great durability. As usual old players will win pools on HF, especially when this player have a boatload of finnish fans pushing him . But Kovalchuk is a superior player and has been since day 1.


Last edited by Sykie: 03-31-2010 at 07:33 AM.
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Old
03-31-2010, 08:06 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykie View Post
The thing most people fail to understand : the key numbers here are not the assists total, but the year where these totals were achieved.

Now if you compare players when they played in the same time :

2001-02; Kovalchuk : 51 pts. Selanne : 54 pts.
* At 18 and playing only 65 games, still managed to produce as much as Selanne.
2002-03; Kovalchuk : 67 pts. Selanne : 64 pts.
2003-04; Kovalchuk : 87 pts. Selanne : 32 pts.
2005-06; Kovalchuk : 98 pts. Selanne : 90 pts.
2006-07; Kovalchuk : 76 pts. Selanne : 94 pts.
2007-08; Kovalchuk : 87 pts. Selanne : 23 pts.
2008-09; Kovalchuk : 91 pts. Selanne : 54 pts.

Breakdown : Kovalchuk outscored Selanne from day 1, at 18. Except for one year, Kovalchuk outscored Selanne each and every year as soon as he stepped up on the NHL ice.

Selanne is a great player, and showed great durability. As usual old players will win pools on HF, especially when this player have a boatload of finnish fans pushing him . But Kovalchuk is a superior player and has been since day 1.
So,
2001 Kovchuk-18 scored 3 pts less than 31 y.o. Selanne
2002 Kovalchuk at 19 Scored 3 pys more than 32 y.o. Selanne
2003 20 y.o. Kovalchuk badly outscored 33 y.o. Selanne who had a disaster season in the Avs
2004-lockout
2005-22y.o. Kovalchuk outscored 35 y.o. Selanne by 8 pts.
2006-23 y.o. Kovalchuk was outscored by 36 y.o. Selanne by 18! pts
2007-why are you even writing this? 23 pts by Selanne? That's a good, objective argument to you? Why leaving the fact that he played only 26 games behind?
2008-again, 54 pts in 65 games and at 38 y.o.

So your point is that a player in his prime, playing on a team where he was a #1 superstar outscored by a little bit a player who will be 40 this year and who wasn't such a go to guy on his teams because, well he is old. That's idiotic

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Old
03-31-2010, 08:07 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykie View Post
The thing most people fail to understand : the key numbers here are not the assists total, but the year where these totals were achieved.

Now if you compare players when they played in the same time :

2001-02; Kovalchuk : 51 pts. Selanne : 54 pts.
* At 18 and playing only 65 games, still managed to produce as much as Selanne.
2002-03; Kovalchuk : 67 pts. Selanne : 64 pts.
2003-04; Kovalchuk : 87 pts. Selanne : 32 pts.
2005-06; Kovalchuk : 98 pts. Selanne : 90 pts.
2006-07; Kovalchuk : 76 pts. Selanne : 94 pts.
2007-08; Kovalchuk : 87 pts. Selanne : 23 pts.
2008-09; Kovalchuk : 91 pts. Selanne : 54 pts.

Breakdown : Kovalchuk outscored Selanne from day 1, at 18. Except for one year, Kovalchuk outscored Selanne each and every year as soon as he stepped up on the NHL ice.

Selanne is a great player, and showed great durability. As usual old players will win pools on HF, especially when this player have a boatload of finnish fans pushing him . But Kovalchuk is a superior player and has been since day 1.
Selanne played with one leg from 2002 to 2004

Selanne at Kovalchuk's age (27) scored 51 goals and 109 points in 78 games in dead puck era. Next season (97/98) he scored 52 goals in 73 games playing without Paul Kariya who was injured. 98/99 he scored 107 points in 75 games (on pace for 117p) at age 29 and won the Maurice.

Selanne wins this easily.

(sry bad english.)

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Old
03-31-2010, 08:41 AM
  #59
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Gimme Kovy. He is a beast in the playoffs and has superior skating + playmaking abilities.

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Old
03-31-2010, 10:28 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykie View Post
The thing most people fail to understand : the key numbers here are not the assists total, but the year where these totals were achieved.

Now if you compare players when they played in the same time :

2001-02; Kovalchuk : 51 pts. Selanne : 54 pts.
* At 18 and playing only 65 games, still managed to produce as much as Selanne.
2002-03; Kovalchuk : 67 pts. Selanne : 64 pts.
2003-04; Kovalchuk : 87 pts. Selanne : 32 pts.
2005-06; Kovalchuk : 98 pts. Selanne : 90 pts.
2006-07; Kovalchuk : 76 pts. Selanne : 94 pts.
2007-08; Kovalchuk : 87 pts. Selanne : 23 pts.
2008-09; Kovalchuk : 91 pts. Selanne : 54 pts.

Breakdown : Kovalchuk outscored Selanne from day 1, at 18. Except for one year, Kovalchuk outscored Selanne each and every year as soon as he stepped up on the NHL ice.

Selanne is a great player, and showed great durability. As usual old players will win pools on HF, especially when this player have a boatload of finnish fans pushing him . But Kovalchuk is a superior player and has been since day 1.
Here's a different breakdown:

2001-2004 you are comparing a young Kovalchuk to 30+ Selanne who plays with one leg.

Selanne: 242gp 73g 77g 150p <--- worst three year period of Selannne's career

Kovalchuk: 227gp 108g 97a 205p

2005-2010 Selanne is 35-39 years old and Kovalchuk is 22-27 years old. Yet again not really a fair comparision.

Kovalchuk 388gp 228a 202a 430p 1.11ppg

Selanne 302gp 148g 153a 301p 1.0ppg

TOI:

05-06 K: 22:23 vs S: 17:48
06-07 K: 21:32 vs S: 17:42
07-08 K: 21:30 vs S: 18:07
08-09 K: 21:48 vs S: 16:29
09-10 K: 22:12 vs S: 17:09

Ice time needed to score a goal:

05-06
Selanne 36min~ vs Kovalchuk 34min~

06-07
Selanne 30min~ vs Kovalchuk 42min~

07-08
Selanne 39min~ vs Kovalchuk 33min~

08-09
Selanne 40min~ vs Kovalchuk 40min ~

09-10
Selanne 40min~ vs Kovalchuk 40min~

Ice time needed for a point:

05-06
Selanne 16min~ vs Kovalchuk 18min~

06-07
Selanne 15min~ vs Kovalchuk 23min~

07-08
Selanne 20min~ vs Kovalchuk 20min~

08-09
Selanne 20min~ vs Kovalchuk 19min~

09-10
Selanne 21min~ vs Kovalchuk 20min~

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Old
03-31-2010, 11:10 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
statistical breakdown
Wow, Selanne's effectiveness is quite absurd considering his age. Of course his pp-time ratio is high but still. I wonder how would Selanne do against other goal-scorers like Ovechkin, Crosby, Stamkos and Heatley?

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Old
03-31-2010, 11:49 AM
  #62
Vinegar Strokes
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Originally Posted by unknown33 View Post
Gimme Kovy. He is a beast in the playoffs and has superior skating + playmaking abilities.
Yeah, those 4 games played with 1G + 1A are truly beastly.

Edit: NM, this has to be sarcasm, there's no way anyone could think Kovalchuk is a better skater and play maker than Selanne was.

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Old
03-31-2010, 02:41 PM
  #63
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Give me Selanne any day, yes I'm very biased

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Old
03-31-2010, 02:51 PM
  #64
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Kovy for me

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Old
03-31-2010, 03:09 PM
  #65
jepjepjoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eple View Post
Wow, Selanne's effectiveness is quite absurd considering his age. Of course his pp-time ratio is high but still. I wonder how would Selanne do against other goal-scorers like Ovechkin, Crosby, Stamkos and Heatley?
S=Selanne
C=Crosby
ST=Stamkos
H=Heatley
O=Ovechkin

goals

05-06
1.O:34
2.H:35
3.S:36
4.C:42

06-07
1.S:30
2.H:35
3.O:38
4.C:46

07-08
1O:29
2.H:38
3.S:39
4.C:46

08-09
1.O:32
2.S:40
3.H:42
4.ST:51
5.C:51

09-10
1.O:31
2.ST:34
3.C:35
4.H:39
5.S:40

Average based on TOI and goals scored from 05-06 to 09-10

1.O:33
2.S:36
3.H:37
5.ST:40 (only 2721 minutes played)
4.C:43

Times are rounded up to the closest minute to save me some time. I didn't double check the math so there might be some mistakes, but I doubt it.


Last edited by jepjepjoo: 03-31-2010 at 03:16 PM.
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Old
03-31-2010, 04:55 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garl View Post
So,
2001 Kovchuk-18 scored 3 pts less than 31 y.o. Selanne
2002 Kovalchuk at 19 Scored 3 pys more than 32 y.o. Selanne
2003 20 y.o. Kovalchuk badly outscored 33 y.o. Selanne who had a disaster season in the Avs
2004-lockout
2005-22y.o. Kovalchuk outscored 35 y.o. Selanne by 8 pts.
2006-23 y.o. Kovalchuk was outscored by 36 y.o. Selanne by 18! pts
2007-why are you even writing this? 23 pts by Selanne? That's a good, objective argument to you? Why leaving the fact that he played only 26 games behind?
2008-again, 54 pts in 65 games and at 38 y.o.

So your point is that a player in his prime, playing on a team where he was a #1 superstar outscored by a little bit a player who will be 40 this year and who wasn't such a go to guy on his teams because, well he is old. That's idiotic
No. My point is Kovalchuk outscored Selanne as soon as he stepped up on the ice. Selanne was 30 (which is NOT old on real world), Kovalchuk was barely 18 and it didn't stop Kovalchuk from outscoring Selanne from day 1, even as a teenager coming from Russia. And since when a 18 years old player is in his prime ?

Don't make any mistake, Selanne was a great player, and one of the most durable I've ever seen. But most people don't realize how special of a talent Kovalchuk is...

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Old
03-31-2010, 05:23 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykie View Post
No. My point is Kovalchuk outscored Selanne as soon as he stepped up on the ice. Selanne was 30 (which is NOT old on real world), Kovalchuk was barely 18 and it didn't stop Kovalchuk from outscoring Selanne from day 1, even as a teenager coming from Russia. And since when a 18 years old player is in his prime ?

Don't make any mistake, Selanne was a great player, and one of the most durable I've ever seen. But most people don't realize how special of a talent Kovalchuk is...
Selanne was 31 years old with a leg that desperately needed surgery which he didn't want because it had a 10-12 month recovery and it was possibly career ending. Also San Jose played a very defensive style of hockey. He had the reconstructive knee surgery done during the lockout and got some of his former speed back.

Selanne of the 90's was pretty good too... a fact you seem to forget.

92-93 to 99-00

564gp 346g 383a 729p
1.293ppg 0.613gpg

-Selanne was top8 in points 6 times (every time he played over 51 games)
-1st in goals in 3 times, once 2nd
-2x first all star team, 2x second all star (competing for the allstar spot with RWs like Jagr,Bure,Mogilny,Hull,Bondra,Fleury etc.)


Last edited by jepjepjoo: 03-31-2010 at 05:34 PM.
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Old
03-31-2010, 05:37 PM
  #68
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Shoot! I clicked Kovy but meant selanne

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Old
03-31-2010, 05:49 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykie View Post
No. My point is Kovalchuk outscored Selanne as soon as he stepped up on the ice.
How about Lemieux vs Kovalchuk? Kovalchuk had more goals than Lemieux every year from 01-02 to 05-06. Kovalchuk must be the superior player since he scored more than Lemieux every year they were in the league at the same time.

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Old
04-01-2010, 02:25 AM
  #70
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I think this is a good comparison.

I give a lot of credit to Kovalchuk for his ability to produce practically alone.

Selanne played his prime in teams comparable in quality to Atlanta, but then again he was also fortunate to have played in the olympic line + Housley and then with Kariya with whom he had great chemistry, and also with McDonald to the lesser degree.

On international level he often played with Koivu with whom they also played incredibly well (this years olympics being the exception for whatever reason).

Still, the ability to mesh well with other players is an ability in itself and something Selanne obivously has.

Selanne's best so far wins Kovalchuk's best in the regular season, he had his rookie season before the dead puck era started to settle in, got injured as sophomore and aside from 95-96 (which is quite comparable to 05-06 scoring wise) had his prime there.

This years playoffs could change things but so far Selanne of course wins there too (by around same age as Kovalchuk is now he had 11 goals with 5 assists in 17 games to Kovalchuks practical nil).

On international play Kovalchuk has better team accomplishments (if one values World Championship gold over Olympic medal) on better teams, but lesser individual stats. I guess Selanne wins here.

Careerwise Kovalchuk needs to score about as many points as he has so far in the league to pass Selanne. It is possible he passes Selanne there, especially in goals scored, but looking at his stats it is also possible he could very quickly slip below ppg rate should he continue to pad his stats after his prime which would look much less impressive, fair or not.

As for my impressions of their playing ability:

Goalscoring is about equal or slight edge to Selanne.

"Skills" about equal or slight edge to Kovalchuk (Selanne better skater especially pre-sophomore injury, Kovalchuk better shot and dekes).

Hockey sense and playmaking Selanne by the virtue of been able to find good chemistry with variety of players throughout his career, Kovalchuk could prove to be equal though as he has a lot of career left.

Defense and grit: Not really either players speciality, can't choose here.

Overall its a very good comparison, but so far I see Selanne either equal (ability), or slightly (prime, team play, playoffs, international play) to significantly (career achievement, points) better in every conceivable category.

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Old
04-01-2010, 08:52 AM
  #71
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Selanne for career,hopefully the Bruins can sign Kovy July 1st

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04-01-2010, 10:22 AM
  #72
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Selanne.

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:04 AM
  #73
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Teemu Selanne

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:07 AM
  #74
kyle evs48
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Selanne

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