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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Why would the PA bring forth a new stricter offer ...

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Old
02-11-2005, 11:50 PM
  #26
futurcorerock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOEBEAGLE
The dumbest statement I have heard in years is " the owners are fighting for the fans". What a joke. Please distribute some of that herb you are smoking to the NHL owners so we can get a new CBA before I die. Also lets sell to the rest of the world because it will bring world peace and clean the enviroment and solve all other problem mankind has.
back your statement up

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02-12-2005, 12:14 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by CarlRacki
Have you ever negotiated for something, i.e. a house, car, job? If so, you know very well you don't submit an offer and say "This is it, but I'm willing to change it." Besides the fact you'd be undercutting yourself, that sort of thing is assumed. That's what makes it a negotiation.
Bob and Ted knew very well that the triggers were up for negotiation and they simply chose not to negotiate them. That's their right, but I'd appreciate it if they wouldn't lie to me and, as a pair of very experienced negotiaters, tell me they didn't think it was possible.
thats the first thing that came to mind. After the first couple of times, Listening to the NHLPA say "We were lead to believe that these points werent negotiable" only leads me to believe that not one person on the NHLPA's side has any idea how to negotiate.

We read and are told how great of a negotiator Bob Goodenow is, yet he and his group cant come up with a way to negotiate points that are OBVIOUSLY put there to negotiate.

Even if the poitns were 100% non-negotiable. Make the NHL Look like idiots, and counter basing a compromise on those points. Call the NHL out, instead of sitting on your hands and making the NHL's job incredibly easy.

Then again, it reminds me of a Law and Order Episode i saw. A Public Defender was purposly not "defending his client to the best of his ability" thereby forcing the judge to give the case more time, in order for a Hot Shot Attorney to come in. the NHLPA isnt showing an unwillingness to negotiate, they just seem to be lacking the ABILITY too. You have to wonder if they are playing dumb on purpose.

Though that would implay the NHLPA is then purposly trashing the season to see the NHL's hand. And thats an expensive price to play.

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02-12-2005, 01:28 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD Jester
The NHL claimed in its post-meeting press appearances that the triggers were negotiable; the PA claimed that the NHL never made that clear in the meeting.
If the PA need someone to make that clear, then they are morons. They never intended to negotiate off this framework, because assumptions does not stop the attempt to negotiate if you see something that is of like. Complete smokescreen comments made by Saskin. By saying that, he is basically claiming that both himself and Goodenow are incompetent.

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02-12-2005, 01:35 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOEBEAGLE
The dumbest statement I have heard in years is " the owners are fighting for the fans". What a joke. Please distribute some of that herb you are smoking to the NHL owners so we can get a new CBA before I die. Also lets sell to the rest of the world because it will bring world peace and clean the enviroment and solve all other problem mankind has.
I have not seen very many, if any for that matter, say that "the owners are fighting for the fans".

What has been said is that the owners, greedy sum*****es that they admittedly are, for this moment have interests that dovetail with this fan's interests, and obviously with many others. I have no illusions that the owners give a damn about me any more than the players do . . . other than as a cash cow anyways. Their goals may be self interest, but I happen to believe that a byproduct of that goal is a much much better game. So I am strongly behind them, for my own self interest. If they make money and I get my better hockey product, I am fine with that.

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02-12-2005, 12:16 PM
  #30
thinkwild
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Suggesting the players should negotiate the Triggers, is saying the players should negotiate Linkage. I dont know if everyone's been following, but ...

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02-12-2005, 12:21 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
Suggesting the players should negotiate the Triggers, is saying the players should negotiate Linkage. I dont know if everyone's been following, but ...
That trigger could have been negotiated out of the CBA . . . . but the PA didn't try, or at least they have given the appearance of not trying.

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02-12-2005, 01:47 PM
  #32
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Of course they are not trying. Linkage is a ridiculous concept and the players want no part of it. Bettmans triggers seem designed to get the PA to negotiate linkage.

Perhaps they could negotiate an (attendance * ticket price) growth target for the owners If the owners are unable to grow revenues at a pace of say 7% a year, the NHLPA proposal is triggerred.

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02-12-2005, 01:54 PM
  #33
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Its pretty simple how negotiations have gone thus far between the PA and the league...

when the PA receives a proposal, they dismiss it and dont negotiate it whatsoever

whent the league receives a proposal (only 1 credible proposal thus far, mind you!), they look at it, and they tweak it and put forth a counterproposal

thats how you do negotiations... in fact the league has moved twice on the PA's only proposal

and constantly we here how the PA is complaining about the lack of a negotiating partner... this lockout would be long over if the PA actually negotiated something... i mean, i agree the triggers were a little ridiculous.. BUT negotiate them!!! tweak them and present a frikkin counterproposal (no matter how ridiculous it may be)

the lack of movement by the PA is ridiculous... they are brewing their own poison

can anyone say impasse?

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02-12-2005, 02:05 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
Suggesting the players should negotiate the Triggers, is saying the players should negotiate Linkage. I dont know if everyone's been following, but ...
I agree

The problem with Triggers and I am not talking about Roy Rogers horse here ..

Is that the NHL suggested ones and the key to all these triggers to start with is that they do not accurately measure the success or failure of the NHLPA proposal but in fact the Owners ..

The players system didn't say that the difference between the top and bottom in payroll could only be X % amount .. They said here is 24% back and spend it wisely..and that all teams are at different stages of development so you will have Salary disparity but not success disparity if you choose not to, but its up to each team to decide..

They didn't say no team could not go over $42 million .. Their system suggests a luxury tax beginning at $42 mil level and the money paid in fines goes to the small market teams to slow down big market owner spending ..

The players system was a completely different attempt to correct the market and its success or failure is not only IMMEDIATE FAILURE based on the NHL triggers but the measures of success are not even relevant to testing it ..

So addressing Triggers or negotiating higher or lower ones SERVES NO PURPOSE .. so therefor no counter ..

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02-12-2005, 02:18 PM
  #35
chriss_co
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I agree

The problem with Triggers and I am not talking about Roy Rogers horse here ..

Is that the NHL suggested ones and the key to all these triggers to start with is that they do not accurately measure the success or failure of the NHLPA proposal but in fact the Owners ..

The players system didn't say that the difference between the top and bottom in payroll could only be X % amount .. They said here is 24% back and spend it wisely..and that all teams are at different stages of development so you will have Salary disparity but not success disparity if you choose not to, but its up to each team to decide..

They didn't say no team could not go over $42 million .. Their system suggests a luxury tax beginning at $42 mil level and the money paid in fines goes to the small market teams to slow down big market owner spending ..

The players system was a completely different attempt to correct the market and its success or failure is not only IMMEDIATE FAILURE based on the NHL triggers but the measures of success are not even relevant to testing it ..

So addressing Triggers or negotiating higher or lower ones SERVES NO PURPOSE .. so therefor no counter ..
But the least the PA could do is to take that proposal and tweak it in their favor.. or atleast tweak the triggers completely in their favor.

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02-12-2005, 03:00 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriss_co
But the least the PA could do is to take that proposal and tweak it in their favor.. or atleast tweak the triggers completely in their favor.
The problem is not the triggers ..

If you are driving your car and the engine fails or you have a flat tire .. Having it towed to the nearest service Station and having it painted Red when it was formerly blue does not solve your problem ..

The triggers or better put benchmarks to test the Players Proposal can't be fixed or measured by changing something that has no bearing on the problem ..

The NHL has given the NHLPA no where to go .. If that was the goal they where very successful, but if further negotiations to try to solve the problem was the goal then they failed miserably ...

What the NHLPA would have to do is infact is modify its own proposal so that the triggers did not go off and that would be leading them down the same path as the NHL proposal is as that is what those triggers measure ..

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