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Gilmour HOF?

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Old
02-07-2005, 06:33 PM
  #51
God Bless Canada
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"Being a jerk and being of dubious moral character are two different things. Have you looked up why the Blues "had" to trade him to Calgary?"

Yes, Kickabrat, I'm aware of the stories that led to the Blues trading him to Calgary. But moral character has never been a factor in determining who goes into the Hall. Terry Sawchuk and Bobby Hull were wife beaters. Hull also fired frozen tennis balls at his kids' heads, and made pro-Hitler comments during an interview with a Russian paper in 1998. Gilmour wouldn't be the first HHOF inductee with a checkered past. I never argued for Gilmour's status as a King Clancy candidate (the guy looked stoned out of his mind on a 1993 UD hockey card), I argued for his heart, grit, elite two-way play and playoff record.


Gilmour also cleared 100 points in two seasons where there were 10 or fewer 100-point scorers.

Gilmour and LaFontaine were different players. Gilmour was more of a gritty, two-way player whose hockey sense and heart carried him to success. LaFontaine was pure skill, who, like Dale Hawerchuk, was a gifted offensive centre who would be much higher on the all-time scoring list if not for injuries and many years spent putting up big numbers with lesser players. The only similarity is like LaFontaine, it'll likely take a couple shots before Gilmour is inducted.

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Old
02-09-2005, 02:04 PM
  #52
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Dougy's in for sure.... look at this points not only in the regular season, but the playoffs also, and plus the type of heart and soul player he was... he's in the HOF no problem....

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Old
02-09-2005, 02:31 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
one more question:

Growing up, Gilmour was (and still is) regarded as a god in toronto. I was right at the perfect age to become a hockey fan, and the hype was innescapable. when i think about it, i was really too young to be a good judge of talent and such, so just out of curiosity, how good was Gilmour regarded as outside of Toronto in his prime? top 5, 10, 20 in the league? non-Leaf fans opinnions are appreciated

I am from Toronto, but I have not been a Leafs fan since the 80's. More of a hockey fan than any one team, but I did love my Whalers! So take this for what its worth.

During his heyday, say 93/94 playoffs, an argument could easily be made that Gilmour was one of the top 5 players in hockey, all around. Keep in mind, these are the days of Gretzky, Lemieux, Francis, so some pretty heady company. He really was, for about 3/4 years, am exceptional talent who really came to play.

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02-09-2005, 02:39 PM
  #54
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To those of you who are questioning his character, and the allegations in St.Louis, I would like to say this. I have had the pleasure of meeting the man this year, and have seen how he spends his time post-hockey. There is no one in Toronto who gives to charity like Doug Gilmour does. He may not give the most in dollars, but he gives his time, over and over again, without any fanfare or media coverage. I myself have been involved in two events that he has helped, and neither time did he ask for any special treatment or acknowledgement. And noone outside of that event knew how he came, helped out and did so with pleasure. The guy is a gentleman, and he was from what I can tell a model citizen during his stay in Toronto as a player. This may have nothing to do with his HofFame possibilities, but it should be told if others are going to come on here an question his character and spout about teenage daughters.

(as far as I know, those were just allegations. Was he convicted?)

And I hope those of you who are chastizing him for holding out for money realize today's players and their actions are no different in my opinion. Lockout or not, you can also eliminate all 700 current players from the Hall of Fame if thats your criteria. Greed is greed.

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Old
02-09-2005, 04:07 PM
  #55
David Puddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsberg4ever
i wonder what cap he'll wear on his plaque.
The Yankees undoubtedly. Steinbrenner will probably give him a front office "job" to assure it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickabrat
Forsberg4ever, you must be american. Hockey HoF players do not go in with a "cap" on their plaque or even an identifiable sweater. All the teams they played for are listed on the plaque.
You must have no sense of humor.

450 Goals, 964 Assists and 1414 Points in 1474 Games Played in the regular season will get him in.

Wasn't Craig Janney centering Hull and Shannahan that year? He finished ahead of both of them to lead the Blues in scoring for 1992-93. Gilmour had 21 more points than Janney and finnished the year in 7th place in scoring for the league.

Gimour is 14th all-time in points and 11th all-time in assists. Those are impressive feats.

Gilmour finished second to Mario Lemieux for the Hart Trophy in 1992-93, fourth for the Hart and second for the Selke to Sergei Federov in 1993-94. That gives him a nice peak to go along with his career numbers.

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Old
02-09-2005, 04:14 PM
  #56
Quiet Robert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
"
Gilmour and LaFontaine were different players. Gilmour was more of a gritty, two-way player whose hockey sense and heart carried him to success. LaFontaine was pure skill, who, like Dale Hawerchuk, was a gifted offensive centre who would be much higher on the all-time scoring list if not for injuries and many years spent putting up big numbers with lesser players. The only similarity is like LaFontaine, it'll likely take a couple shots before Gilmour is inducted.
I agree with what you said about Gilmour. Also regarding Lafontaine, I didn't mean to sound as if I thought he wasen't a good player, don't get me wrong, he was absolutely great and probably deserves to be in the Hall. My issue is simply that with Lafontaine's stats, admittedly, stats aren't everything, arguments can be made for players who don't deserve. Should Sundin because his stats are comparable to Lafontaine's? I don't hink so. (I think Pat is more deserving) However, you are right when you say that injuries hurt him. I think that was one determining factor. Because Lafontaine only played 1 full season I think. If he had played a full career he probably would have had around 1400 points. Anyways, Gilmour should be in but unfortunately probalby won't be first ballot. Lafontaine deserves to be as well but his case is a little harder to argue. Players with 1000 points though? Should not be in automatically.

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Old
02-09-2005, 05:41 PM
  #57
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He will be in there at a some point

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Old
02-10-2005, 02:06 PM
  #58
Kickabrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhalerBoy
....This may have nothing to do with his HofFame possibilities, but it should be told if others are going to come on here an question his character and spout about teenage daughters. (as far as I know, those were just allegations. Was he convicted?).
A civil lawsuit was brought against him by the girl's parents. Don't remember the exact details but I think it was settled out of court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhalerBoy
And I hope those of you who are chastizing him for holding out for money realize today's players and their actions are no different in my opinion. Lockout or not, you can also eliminate all 700 current players from the Hall of Fame if thats your criteria. Greed is greed.
He did not hold out. He was awarded a contract by an arbitrator and he did not like it so he quit the team in late December. Like I said, not the actioons of a team kind of guy.

And like I wrot before, he will most likely make it to the HoF.

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Old
02-10-2005, 02:36 PM
  #59
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Kickabrat, not that it matters a whole helluva lot, but I remember an old Red Fisher column about Gilmour walking out on Calgary. From what I remember, he and Risebrough didn't get along. Risebrough was a rookie GM. Unknown to Risebrough, Gilmour was in the next hotel room, and overheard him ranting and raving about what an a hole Gilmour was and how he wanted to get rid of him. Gilmour got pissed and decided to force the situation.

I agree, he's an obvious hof'er. BTW, Whaler Boy, I've heard the same of Gilmour's behaviour today. I also heard the stories years ago. I guess people grow up and you hope there isn't too much destruction along the way.

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Old
02-10-2005, 09:39 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickabrat
A civil lawsuit was brought against him by the girl's parents. Don't remember the exact details but I think it was settled out of court.

He did not hold out. He was awarded a contract by an arbitrator and he did not like it so he quit the team in late December. Like I said, not the actioons of a team kind of guy.

And like I wrot before, he will most likely make it to the HoF.

For his character, I can only comment on what Ive seen, and what I know to be true. Settling out of court, that doesnt tell me he is guilty, though I have no reason to believe he was or was not.
And as far as the Calgary thing, if you think holding out, or not playing under a signed contract means you should not get into the hall, dont you think you'll be taking out a lot of players?
(i agree though, shows a lack of integrity)

That said, to judge a man by what he did in his early-mid twenties...well, lets just say i doubt every hall of famer is so innocent and pure.

Ive seen Wayne Gretzky, the shy, pure boy wonder of Canada, in a couple of situations that would have gotten an NHL player in trouble. at least with their wives!!!

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Old
02-11-2005, 02:53 PM
  #61
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Killer definatly HOF worthy

Gilmour will with out a doubt nake the HOF.

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Old
02-12-2005, 04:26 PM
  #62
Kickabrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhalerBoy
And as far as the Calgary thing, if you think holding out, or not playing under a signed contract means you should not get into the hall, dont you think you'll be taking out a lot of players? (i agree though, shows a lack of integrity)
The thing about Calgary was, that Riseborough called him an A-hole because Gilmour was making noise that he wanted more money and that he would not accept the arbitrator's decision (in those days, an arbitrator could rule at any time, and in this case came roughly half way between the bid/ offer spread in December). That is when Gilmour took a hairy fit, demanded more money or he would leave. Riseborough did not give in, and Gilmour left. My beef about this is that he left a team that was a legitimate cup contender. By putting a gun to Risborough's head, he forced him into one of the worst trade in NHL history, and basically destroyed any hope of a cup for years to come. That is not the action of a leader or a team player. If he was a European player, everybody particularly Don Cherry, would be all over him for doing something like that.

Like I said, it won't stop him from going in the HoF, but if I had a vote, I would make him wait a few years before he gets in.

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