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Zetterberg v Fedorov…..the cooler iceman?

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03-31-2010, 01:35 AM
  #1
Captain Lebyadkin
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Zetterberg v Fedorov…..the cooler iceman?

A red hello to you all!

I was hesitant about posting on this board after barely a year of membership, but there is no better place to get a thorough and no BS opinion about my specific red wings quiz.

The playoffs are around the corner and as a result I have been reflecting on past runs by the wings. The wings have had numerous players who deliver the goods in crunch time but which one player stands out the most of the bunch in recent times?

I have narrowed it down to Zetterberg and Fedorov. However, my memory only goes as far back as the year 2001 so choosing Fedorov in this comparison is based mainly on reputation and statistics.

In addition, I pose this question here as I am incapable of deducing anything from it on my lonesome because of my equal admiration for both of these players, these two being my ‘favourite’. Bah…I hate using that word when referring to athletes.

So then, who’s the prettier dandy of the two?

Oops... ah…I mean which of the two has had the most success in playoff hockey, purely on an individual level, and who was more instrumental to the success of their respective Detroit teams they represented?

I was going to opt for a complete player comparison but hank is still a ways behind I think; I mean Sergei’s legs have their own cult following so it probably would be too lopsided.

Pssst…Feel free to answer the pretty boy Freudian slip question if you so please!

Many thanks in advance!



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03-31-2010, 02:23 AM
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Hank is a badass but Fedorov was one of the most consistent performers this team has ever seen. Not as good defensively but i would pick Sergei in his prime. Still my favorite wing of all time.

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03-31-2010, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by howardsjuicyrebound View Post
Hank is a badass but Fedorov was one of the most consistent performers this team has ever seen. Not as good defensively but i would pick Sergei in his prime. Still my favorite wing of all time.
Not as good defensively? Sergei won two Selke's and often would play defense for Detroit

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03-31-2010, 06:05 AM
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SirKillalot
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I like Federov's offense, but Zetterberg's man marking and defensive abilities is vital for this team.

I think we would have benefited of having Federov in good old shape last year. But, 2008 was all Zetterberg.

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03-31-2010, 06:14 AM
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nik jr
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fedorov should have won the smythe in '97 and probably would have in '95 if DRW had won, but, imo, zetterberg's '08 and '09 were better than any of fedorov's playoffs.

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Not as good defensively? Sergei won two Selke's and often would play defense for Detroit
i think zetterberg is better defensively than fedorov was. zetterberg has better defensive positioning. i don't think i have ever seen fedorov smother an opponent as zetterberg has (especially vs crosby).

imo, fedorov is more like datsyuk defensively (minus many takeaways). and i do not say that b/c they are from the same country. datsyuk did not play as a soviet C when he arrived in NHL.


OTOH, i wonder what fedorov would have looked like if DRW had played as strong team D as they have during zetterberg's career.

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03-31-2010, 07:09 AM
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No, Z is not better than Feds defensively. He's a hard worker but Feds was a Red Army-developed center. Who wrote the book on two-way play and puck possession?

Feds is perhaps the best two-way player to ever play hockey, not just on the Wings.

And Feds is definitely more of the lady's man.

Edit: Bure was asked about the Bure-Feds-Mogilny line, and who was the best scorer. Bure laughed that Feds was the defensive guy. It's funny because I think Feds had the stronger overall stats-- especially playoffs. I'll let someone else dig up the numbers. (Obviously noting Bure's shortened career, and that Feds played on a defensively-oriented Bowman-appointed Wings/center.)

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03-31-2010, 07:19 AM
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ESunlin
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No one developed, instilled, and trained their hockey players for two-way, defensive, puck possession more than the CCCP.

That being said, the original question is about how much they mean to their current team. In the mid to late '90's, that DRW was ssstacked. Now, after the lockout, there isn't as much depth. It's really hard for me to pick one of the two as an MVP of their team... I almost have to go with Hank because there was so much talent in the '90's, but I think overall that Feds is a better player.

And Hank is better looking, but Sergei had that Russian mysterious thing going on, which is hot.

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03-31-2010, 07:27 AM
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norrisnick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
fedorov should have won the smythe in '97 and probably would have in '95 if DRW had won, but, imo, zetterberg's '08 and '09 were better than any of fedorov's playoffs.


i think zetterberg is better defensively than fedorov was. zetterberg has better defensive positioning. i don't think i have ever seen fedorov smother an opponent as zetterberg has (especially vs crosby).

imo, fedorov is more like datsyuk defensively (minus many takeaways). and i do not say that b/c they are from the same country. datsyuk did not play as a soviet C when he arrived in NHL.


OTOH, i wonder what fedorov would have looked like if DRW had played as strong team D as they have during zetterberg's career.
Z is a better one-on-one, matchup, hound the other guy until he quits defender, but in an overall sense Fedorov is better. If Z were as fast as Sergei and the extra coverage that would provide, I might be inclined to give him the edge, but speed kills and Fedorov had it.

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03-31-2010, 08:30 AM
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Fedorov also had to bulldog his way through the deadpuck area on the offensive end. We all griped about the crap Hal Gill got away with but that pales in comparison to what used to be done by everybody in the name of defense.

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03-31-2010, 09:22 AM
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slapshots1515
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Z is an incredible lockdown defender with great offense, but Federov's skills were in another world.

Although...for clutch playoff performance, doesn't Franzen merit a little love? All that guy does is perform in the playoffs.

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03-31-2010, 09:32 AM
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Jussha
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I think overall Fedorov, especially when he is playing his best, was the better defensive forward. However, a lot of times during the regular season Fedorov seems to just go through the motions, whereas Zetterberg, really until his slumps this season, seems always performing at his best, so he may appear to be the better defender.

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03-31-2010, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
fedorov should have won the smythe in '97 and probably would have in '95 if DRW had won, but, imo, zetterberg's '08 and '09 were better than any of fedorov's playoffs.


i think zetterberg is better defensively than fedorov was. zetterberg has better defensive positioning. i don't think i have ever seen fedorov smother an opponent as zetterberg has (especially vs crosby).

imo, fedorov is more like datsyuk defensively (minus many takeaways). and i do not say that b/c they are from the same country. datsyuk did not play as a soviet C when he arrived in NHL.


OTOH, i wonder what fedorov would have looked like if DRW had played as strong team D as they have during zetterberg's career.
Ask Mike Modano about Fedorov in '98. Understandably, as time passes the images of Fedorov completely dominating a game defensively start to fade with fans, so while I think Hank is definitely deserving of praise for his defensive acumen, any comparison to Fedorov should go overwhelmingly to #91. Plus, as good as Hank is against Crosby, he's equally defenselesss against Getzlaf. Fedorov had no Getzlaf. Fedorov went against Forsberg, Modano, Turgeon, Gretzky...the talent level at center now isn't close to what is was back then IMO.

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03-31-2010, 09:59 AM
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ZMAN provides unconditional defense
Fedorov was just nasty w the puck

I would have to go w Federov...Him and Yzerman were like Crosby and Malkin..hate to use that analogy butttttt

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03-31-2010, 10:23 AM
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I'm kinda guy who usually think new players are better trained and generally just better...but it's a tough argument.

Z is clutch, competitive and has high leadership quality but Fed gave a whole team a boost with his speed. He made alot of things happen with his speed. When Fed was with Wings, we were the fastest team around.

But back then, defensive was less aware and system wasn't as defined as today. Also goalies today are better (and have bigger pads) than yesteryears.

comparing players from different time is just pointless IMO. So if I had to pick one, I'm going with Z.

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03-31-2010, 10:34 AM
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Well once Z can play on defense as well as a forward, then maybe we can talk about him in the same breath with Feds. People are forgetting Bowman also used him as a defenseman.


Remember what Gretzky said about him, to paraphrase-- I couldn't play defense, Lemieux couldn't play defense, but Fedorov did. A hell of a player.

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03-31-2010, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Yemack View Post
I'm kinda guy who usually think new players are better trained and generally just better...but it's a tough argument.

Z is clutch, competitive and has high leadership quality but Fed gave a whole team a boost with his speed. He made alot of things happen with his speed. When Fed was with Wings, we were the fastest team around.

But back then, defensive was less aware and system wasn't as defined as today. Also goalies today are better (and have bigger pads) than yesteryears.

comparing players from different time is just pointless IMO. So if I had to pick one, I'm going with Z.
You speak as if Fedorov played in the 70's or 80's. Fedorov played his prime years in an era of heavily defensive, system oriented hockey...hence the "dead puck" era the late 90's up until the lockout was called. As far as the number of quality goalies being more today...I can't agree. Roy, Hasek, Broduer, Belfour, Kolzig, Joseph....I'd argue the goaltending (and equipment) was much tougher back then than it is today.

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03-31-2010, 10:53 AM
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Yemack
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Originally Posted by 8snake View Post
You speak as if Fedorov played in the 70's or 80's. Fedorov played his prime years in an era of heavily defensive, system oriented hockey...hence the "dead puck" era the late 90's up until the lockout was called. As far as the number of quality goalies being more today...I can't agree. Roy, Hasek, Broduer, Belfour, Kolzig, Joseph....I'd argue the goaltending (and equipment) was much tougher back then than it is today.
well.. obiviously I don't agree with you in alot of points but I just don't have enough time to go back and forth right now so. I shouldn't be posting in this forum in first place right now.. got a journal due tomorrow night.

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03-31-2010, 12:32 PM
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Coincidental Minors
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I've watched the wings since 88-89. Fedorov wins this thread. Speed, defensive abilities, and overall skill is a little better than Z. Two Selke trophies, one Hart, one Pearson, and voted best skater in the NHL in 1993 http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/s...age=BOE/skater

He also could play defense in a pinch. Yzerman and Federov had offensive numbers curtailed under Bowman. Think of what they could do in post lockout rules in their prime.

As far as clutch goes... I think Yzerman was counted on when the times got tough.

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03-31-2010, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
Z is a better one-on-one, matchup, hound the other guy until he quits defender, but in an overall sense Fedorov is better. If Z were as fast as Sergei and the extra coverage that would provide, I might be inclined to give him the edge, but speed kills and Fedorov had it.
+1

They are two very different types of defenders. Besides one-on-one shutdown prowess, Zetterberg is also better at shutting down passing lanes than Fedorov was. In fact, Zetterberg is maybe the best I've ever seen. But I agree, Fedorov gets the nod as the overall better defender.

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03-31-2010, 01:34 PM
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Fedorov is the best two-way center in Detroit history.

He was also a very generous man at Detroit clubs, often buying rounds for the entire bar.

Plus, he was dating an underage Anna K.

He wins, hands down.

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03-31-2010, 01:46 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Fedorov is the best two-way center in Detroit history.

He was also a very generous man at Detroit clubs, often buying rounds for the entire bar.

Plus, he was dating an underage Anna K.

He wins, hands down.
I agree that Fedorov for most part is the best 2-way centre in Detroit history. However, I think if Datsyuk continues for the next 5 years to play defense the way he does and win a few more selke's, I think he can make a challenge for that spot. I know most here think Zetter is the better two way forward, but I've always thought since the 06-07 season that Datsyuk is the better 2-way and defensive forward.

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03-31-2010, 03:44 PM
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Fedorov is one of the greatest Red Wings of all time. I love Z and he is clutch, but Fedorov was the better player in every aspect of the game in a landslide, regular season or playoffs.

Scratch that, Z *might* have a better backhand shot. But thats it.

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03-31-2010, 03:56 PM
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Captain Lebyadkin
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
Fedorov is one of the greatest Red Wings of all time. I love Z and he is clutch, but Fedorov was the better player in every aspect of the game in a landslide, regular season or playoffs.

Scratch that, Z *might* have a better backhand shot. But thats it.
this is precisely the reason why i avoided the request for a complete player comparison, i also am of this opinion and belief!

However, you don't think there is a case to be made at all for henrik if it is solely restricted to the playoffs, the comparison that is? for instance, zetterberg has scored double digits in goals twice in two different playoff campaigns where as sergei's best showing in the goals department is 10 total goals, this being the only time he has cracked double digits.

i know its only one aspect of a broad argument but surely it counts for something?



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03-31-2010, 04:17 PM
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Captain Lebyadkin
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By the way, thank you all for your active and in depth response to my question!

I was a little worried that it was insipid and therefore would attract little to no intrigue and/or debate at all.

What a relief!








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03-31-2010, 04:39 PM
  #25
19 for president
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Feds wins because he was 10x more physically gifted than Z. His speed, size, and natural ability just made him that much harder to shut down. If Z had Feds physical attributes I'd take him, but he does not. Now with that said if you look just at the playoffs I think its a closer than some might like. People say that Feds offensive numbers mean more because he played in the dead puck era, which is true. The same however could be said of Z's playoff numbers because the competition (especially in the West) is a lot higher. The teams that make the playoffs as the lower seeds I think are signifcantly better than the teams in the late 90s. I'd also say the Pens are much better than the Canes and Capitals as far as SC opponents go. I mean in general the West consisted of the Avs, Stars, and Wings. Everyone else was a huge step below. I don't think that is true anymore. Also I'd say that Forsberg was definitly Fed's Getzlaf. Also in general the playoffs really aren't that much less clutch and grabby than pre-lockout years. The Ducks teams of 07 and 09 were as bad as any pre-lockout team, and the Flames, Stars, Penguins, and Oilers weren't far behind.

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