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Old
03-31-2010, 06:52 PM
  #101
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Bernier has a higher upside than Quick, we all know that, even some NHL experts have said it, I think even Jim Fox did too, but Quick has a better head it seems like, is more experienced and proven more at the NHL level. Though, in saying that, we haven't seen enough of Bernier to judge and see what kind of goals he lets in...Quick has been lights out, but also let in some duds.

I will tell you this, hopefully the Kings have the same dilemna as the Habs, two really good young goalies.

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03-31-2010, 09:45 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
The Kings have scored 3 goals for Bernier and he is 2-0. 'nuff said.

He deserves to get a home start tomorrow. Ersberg should be sent to Manchester on a "conditioning" assignment.
Considering Zatkoff's injury tonight, I say yes, send EE to Manchester (like this will happen). Kind of rough having Matt Lopes in net tonight for the Monarchs since has never played one second in the ECHL, let alone the AHL. But Lopes and the Monarchs did play great tonight and the M's won 4-3 in Lowell.

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04-01-2010, 09:09 AM
  #103
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For crying out loud people. Bernier is the future. The only reason Quick has been in net for so long and so much is because management needed (wanted) Bernier to get as much time at the AHL level rather than play behind a crappy L.A defence. Now that he's proved himself at that level It's time for him to step up. TM and DL have realized that in order to take the team to the next level it's got to be Bernier who does it.

You start your best goalie against top level team and thats what they are doing now.

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04-01-2010, 09:38 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by TKFAN View Post
Considering Zatkoff's injury tonight, I say yes, send EE to Manchester (like this will happen). Kind of rough having Matt Lopes in net tonight for the Monarchs since has never played one second in the ECHL, let alone the AHL. But Lopes and the Monarchs did play great tonight and the M's won 4-3 in Lowell.
Wouldn't Ersberg have to go through waivers to be able to get sent down?

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04-01-2010, 09:48 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
Wouldn't Ersberg have to go through waivers to be able to get sent down?
I'm not sure what needs to happen to be considered a "conditioning" assignment, but players designated for a conditioning assignment are not subject to waivers, regardless of their waiver status; such assignments may not be longer than fourteen (14) days. If the NHL believes that Bernier is an emergency recall, then they must believe that Ersberg is injured.

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04-01-2010, 10:18 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I'm not sure what needs to happen to be considered a "conditioning" assignment, but players designated for a conditioning assignment are not subject to waivers, regardless of their waiver status; such assignments may not be longer than fourteen (14) days. If the NHL believes that Bernier is an emergency recall, then they must believe that Ersberg is injured.
Ersberg has to be a team player here. He can sign an affidavit as to the severity his back problems, if the NHL is suspicious.

Do it for the team, EE. They paid you well enough to sit on your ass and blow games in the shootout. Do it for the team.

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04-01-2010, 11:30 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryden View Post
For crying out loud people. Bernier is the future. The only reason Quick has been in net for so long and so much is because management needed (wanted) Bernier to get as much time at the AHL level rather than play behind a crappy L.A defence. Now that he's proved himself at that level It's time for him to step up. TM and DL have realized that in order to take the team to the next level it's got to be Bernier who does it.

You start your best goalie against top level team and thats what they are doing now.
Bernier hasn't proven anything. Ersberg shutout his first NHL opponent while playing the very good and playoff bound Senators and we were already playing ourselves to the gold courses... Bernier is the future, but he isn't proven, and won't be handed the reigns after a couple of good games. He isn't #1 till he does it over a season, like Quick has.

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04-01-2010, 11:56 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Bernier hasn't proven anything. Ersberg shutout his first NHL opponent while playing the very good and playoff bound Senators and we were already playing ourselves to the gold courses... Bernier is the future, but he isn't proven, and won't be handed the reigns after a couple of good games. He isn't #1 till he does it over a season, like Quick has.
Did you really just compare Bernier to Ersberg? Ersberg was always projected to be a backup goalie. He never had #1 potential in the NHL. I still think that Ersberg is a better backup than Labs, but we don't know for sure because Murray refused to play Ersberg this season.

How has Quick proven that he is a legit #1 goaltender in the NHL? His numbers are worse this season, he has a higher GAA and lower SV%. He has also played as many NHL playoff games as Bernier. Quick isn't terrible, but he is not having a stellar season other than getting to play 90% of the games and having a much improved offense in front of him. This is why he has 39 wins.


If Quick can show that he has his head back in the game over the last several, then I have no problem letting him start the first playoff game. But, if he continues to give up the bad goals and tons of rebounds right in the slot, then I would like to see Bernier in 3 more regular season games to see if he can handle the pressure.

I'm glad that Calgary won last night, keeps the pressure on the Kings to win. I don't want them to "back" into the playoffs. I would much rather have them win 3 or 4 in a row to clinch a playoff spot.

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04-01-2010, 12:10 PM
  #109
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I think it's pretty clear from the TM quotes that JQ is the clear #1 goalie in his mind. The thing that's interesting to consider is whether or not DL is on that same page still. We've heard that they want Bernier to get that AHL playoff experience, but we have been seeing indications that there is a lack of confidence in EE pretty much all year and TM's quote yesterday sort of brings it home. With Bernier available to TM, he says:
Quote:
MURRAY: This is the first opportunity that Ive been able to back away from Quicker for a little while."
To me that's a clear vote of no confidence in EE and you have to wonder if the Kings feel that EE is even good enough to ride the pine through the playoffs. What if JQ lays an egg in the first playoff game, do they want to roll with EE in their first playoff appearance in 8 years?
Sure the Kings may be ahead of schedule, but you can bet that Kings management is under a bit of pressure to do more than just qualify for the playoffs at this point. Any sort of meltdown, like four games and out, in the playoffs will not site well. We are talking about LA here. Playoff success is the only thing that really gets season ticket sales flowing. It will be interesting to see if DL sticks to his plan and sends Bernier back to Manchester for playoffs.

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04-01-2010, 12:11 PM
  #110
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Did you really just say that Quick effectively has little to do with his 39 wins?

Jesus, the guy slumps a little bit along with the rest of the team and all of a sudden we forget the VAST majority of games Quick's goaltending has kept us in and won for us. Simply because Quick isn't getting huge numbers or tons of shutouts, does not mean his goaltending hasn't been largely responsible for the Kings' success or that he isn't a number 1 NHL goalie.

All of a sudden a guy has to have a stellar save % and GAA to be an NHL #1? That's ridiculous. If you are the guy between the pipes for 90% of the games on a playoff team, you have proven you are an NHL #1. All that's left to prove is if he will be a perennial #1 and if he will rise or fall in the playoffs.

I can't believe I even had to say any of that.

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04-01-2010, 12:20 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Did you really just say that Quick effectively has little to do with his 39 wins?

Jesus, the guy slumps a little bit along with the rest of the team and all of a sudden we forget the VAST majority of games Quick's goaltending has kept us in and won for us. Simply because Quick isn't getting huge numbers or tons of shutouts, does not mean his goaltending hasn't been largely responsible for the Kings' success or that he isn't a number 1 NHL goalie.

All of a sudden a guy has to have a stellar save % and GAA to be an NHL #1? That's ridiculous. If you are the guy between the pipes for 90% of the games on a playoff team, you have proven you are an NHL #1. All that's left to prove is if he will be a perennial #1 and if he will rise or fall in the playoffs.

I can't believe I even had to say any of that.
The biggest thing for me is the clutch third periods...he's let in a good amount of softies this year, but locked it down when it counts. That and his strength in battles in front of the net make me excited to see what he can do in the playoffs.

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04-01-2010, 12:36 PM
  #112
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...Quick is also tied for 5th in losses...

So playing a lot of games makes you a #1 goalie? Sure, in the literal sense, but when the other option is Ersberg, then, yes Quick is going to get the majority of the games.

It's also not a little slump, his stats are worse than last year. He had one great month that resulted in the long winning streak, but why couldn't he continue to play as well the rest of the season? Instead he went back to playing average and now the Kings are back to being a .500 club.

Quick:

October 2.59 & .905 (8-3-2) Offense carried the team
November 2.72 & .895 (6-6-0) Offense slumped and Quick failed to steal games
December 2.55 & .910 (7-4-1) Offense stablized and Quick started to improve
January 2.31 & .919 (10-3-0) Quick was a legit elite #1 goalie, stole some games
Febrary 2.41 & .901 (4-1-0) Quick started giving up very weak goals
March 2.60 & .907 (4-7-1) Offense slumped and Quick didn't elevate his game
April?


Look Quick is a solid NHL goalie, but Bernier is currently out playing him with little offensive help from the Kings. 3 goals scored in 2 games for Bernier.

You have to play the goalie that gives the team the best chance of winning. Doesn't matter how many games the goalie has played in the past. Bernier appears to be ready. If Bernier falters, then Quick has to be ready with his "A" game. That is how it works in the NHL, you have to seize your opportunity. Quick must show when he gets a chance to play Saturday that he is the goalie from January and not the one from the other months.

If Bernier can get Quick to play better, then that is a win/win for the Kings. Bernier will be back in the AHL and Quick will be leading the Kings in the playoffs.

We all want the same thing, the Kings winning games and playing in the playoffs. I don't care which goalie plays, as long as the team is winning.

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04-01-2010, 12:48 PM
  #113
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Bernier has played 2 games. 2 games.

His last game was better than Quick's last game.

I'm fine, happy even, that Bernier will start tonight. I'm even fine with Bernier outright stealing the number 1 job if he can, but he has to actually do that first.

Regardless, Bernier getting a shutout against Nashville has absolutely nothing to do with Quick's legitimacy as an NHL #1.

And no, starting a lot of games does not make you a #1. Starting a lot of games and winning most of them, does.

I didn't say "starting a lot of games makes you a #1", you conveniently left out the important condition "ON A PLAYOFF TEAM."

Last time I checked, all goalies slump, all goalies get wins because of the offense, but not all goalies are trusted to play 70+ games.

As MN14 correctly pointed towards, the stats won't tell you that Quick has shut down as many 3rd periods as he has. The stats don't provide for the Kings' weakened penalty kill this year.

You want to talk about Quick's numbers being worse this year? How about we look at the penalty kill, which has gone down 2.4% from 82.9 to 80.5. All of a sudden Quick's .007 drop in SV% and .06 drop in GAA don't look quite so bad. Now I know you will say that the PK is worse BECAUSE of Quick.

Fact of the matter is, you don't, and can't know this. Why?

BECAUSE THE STATS WON'T TELL YOU THAT!

Have you no concept of middle ground? So Quick is either stellar or just 'not terrible'? That's absurd. Quick is a damn good NHL goalie. He isn't elite, yet, but he is far beyond 'not terrible'.

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04-01-2010, 12:59 PM
  #114
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I said that Quick is a solid NHL goalie. What is wrong with that?

I'm sure you have heard the term that your PK is only as good as your goalie?

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04-01-2010, 01:01 PM
  #115
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I have to wonder about those who jumped on the JB bandwagon and are dumping on JQ. I wonder how many sub par games from JB will it take before you guys start hatin' on Bernier and get on the Zatkoff bandwagon?

Heck, I love what I've seen from Bernier and I feel that he truly is our future, perhaps even our present. But to hate on Quick when he's been our mvp, does make me wonder.

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04-01-2010, 01:03 PM
  #116
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OK fine, you did say solid in the post after having said 'not terrible'. Still, it seems by your standards there are only like 5 or 6 NHL #1 goalies in the league.

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04-01-2010, 01:04 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Did you really just compare Bernier to Ersberg? Ersberg was always projected to be a backup goalie. He never had #1 potential in the NHL. I still think that Ersberg is a better backup than Labs, but we don't know for sure because Murray refused to play Ersberg this season.

How has Quick proven that he is a legit #1 goaltender in the NHL? His numbers are worse this season, he has a higher GAA and lower SV%. He has also played as many NHL playoff games as Bernier. Quick isn't terrible, but he is not having a stellar season other than getting to play 90% of the games and having a much improved offense in front of him. This is why he has 39 wins.


If Quick can show that he has his head back in the game over the last several, then I have no problem letting him start the first playoff game. But, if he continues to give up the bad goals and tons of rebounds right in the slot, then I would like to see Bernier in 3 more regular season games to see if he can handle the pressure.

I'm glad that Calgary won last night, keeps the pressure on the Kings to win. I don't want them to "back" into the playoffs. I would much rather have them win 3 or 4 in a row to clinch a playoff spot.
lol, ludicrous. Either way, it isn't going to happen. Bernier is going back to Manchester. And Quick is much more proven than Bernier. Bernier is better, but Quick has more experience. Bernier hasn't even had to work through a slump yet, he is not a god, one will come one day as it does with all goaltenders, and we don't even know how he can handle it. He is unproven on every level. He won't get much of a glance come postseason.

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04-01-2010, 01:08 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Heck, I love what I've seen from Bernier and I feel that he truly is our future, perhaps even our present. But to hate on Quick when he's been our mvp, does make me wonder.
How is it 'hate on Quick" to say that he is a solid NHL goalie, but has not proven himself to be an elite goalie yet? Bernier should be given the same opportunity to prove himself, why not in March/April?

I don't hate Quick, he has been very important to the success of the team this year, but Benrier is currently the best option in net.


Now, Murray, I hate. He never should have put Quick in so many games this year and I believe that is part of the reason Quick is faltering at the worst time of year. Murray has finally said that he feels that Quick needs a break from playing and Bernier has allowed Murray the opportunity to give Quick the rest he needs. Maybe Lombardi should have called up Bernier more often during the season to give Quick a rest since Murray wouldn't play Ersberg.

"This is the first opportunity that I've been able to back away from Quicker for a little while," Murray said Wednesday. "His opportunity just to get some quality practice time in, for several days, is there because of Jonathan Bernier's performance in last night's game. He was solid, he had a shutout and I'm going to reward that performance with the game tomorrow against Vancouver.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=5...id=DL|NHL|home

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04-01-2010, 01:10 PM
  #119
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Solid was your caveat.

You started off with "How has Quick proven that he is a legit #1 goaltender in the NHL?" And then went on to try and prove that Quick isn't a legit #1.

Again, which apparently indicates you are only a legit #1 if you are elite, which kind of defeats the purpose of having a category called elite.

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04-01-2010, 01:11 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
lol, ludicrous. Either way, it isn't going to happen. Bernier is going back to Manchester. And Quick is much more proven than Bernier. Bernier is better, but Quick has more experience. Bernier hasn't even had to work through a slump yet, he is not a god, one will come one day as it does with all goaltenders, and we don't even know how he can handle it. He is unproven on every level. He won't get much of a glance come postseason.
Again, how much playoff experience does Quick have? AHL playoffs? NHL playoffs? Right now Bernier is handling the playoff race pressure better than Quick. That is all we can go on because Bernier has only been given 2 games. If Bernier gets blown out tonight, then yes the Kings will have only one option in net for the playoffs, Quick. But if Bernier continues to play well, then you have to continue to alternate between them for the final 6 games.

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04-01-2010, 01:14 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Solid was your caveat.

You started off with "How has Quick proven that he is a legit #1 goaltender in the NHL?"

Again, which apparently indicates you are only a legit #1 if you are elite, which kind of defeats the purpose of having a category called elite.
I just mean that having 1 season as a #1 goalie doesn't prove anything. You need to have several seasons playing as a #1 goalie to prove that you are a #1 goalie.

Would you call Labs a #1 goalie in the NHL because of one season?

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04-01-2010, 01:16 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
How is it 'hate on Quick" to say that he is a solid NHL goalie, but has not proven himself to be an elite goalie yet? Bernier should be given the same opportunity to prove himself, why not in March/April?

I don't hate Quick, he has been very important to the success of the team this year, but Benrier is currently the best option in net.


Now, Murray, I hate. He never should have put Quick in so many games this year and I believe that is part of the reason Quick is faltering at the worst time of year. Murray has finally said that he feels that Quick needs a break from playing and Bernier has allowed Murray the opportunity to give Quick the rest he needs. Maybe Lombardi should have called up Bernier more often during the season to give Quick a rest since Murray wouldn't play Ersberg.

"This is the first opportunity that I've been able to back away from Quicker for a little while," Murray said Wednesday. "His opportunity just to get some quality practice time in, for several days, is there because of Jonathan Bernier's performance in last night's game. He was solid, he had a shutout and I'm going to reward that performance with the game tomorrow against Vancouver.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=5...id=DL|NHL|home


I wasn't referring to you.

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04-01-2010, 01:17 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Again, how much playoff experience does Quick have? AHL playoffs? NHL playoffs? Right now Bernier is handling the playoff race pressure better than Quick. That is all we can go on because Bernier has only been given 2 games. If Bernier gets blown out tonight, then yes the Kings will have only one option in net for the playoffs, Quick. But if Bernier continues to play well, then you have to continue to alternate between them for the final 6 games.
No way. Not unless Bernier shuts out his opponents for the rest of the season and Quick gets hit by a bus. How much NHL experience does Bernier have? Like 6 games now, total. It just isn't going to happen. Neither Murray nor Lombardi is going to allow Quick to be dethroned by 6 games. Just isn't going to happen. Bernier will be sent down. They are just getting a look and giving Quick a breather and time to prepare for the postseason. Bernier doesn't see a day in the NHL postseaon unless Quick is injured.

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04-01-2010, 01:17 PM
  #124
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What?

Labs played 45 games one season and only won 17 of them.

If Labs had a season like Quick is having, in terms of GP and WINS, not ****ing sv% and GAA, then yes, he would be a #1 goalie.

One season with 39 wins proves NOTHING? Really? NOTHING?!?!

So Quick's 39 wins prove nothing, but Bernier's 2 wins proves he deserves the reins as much as Quick? Sorry, that logic makes no sense to me.

Riding the hot hand is one thing, but you are taking this a step too far.

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04-01-2010, 01:19 PM
  #125
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What?

Labs played 45 games one season and only won 17 of them.

If Labs had a season like Quick is having, in terms of GP and WINS, not ****ing sv% and GAA, then yes, he would be a #1 goalie.

One season with 39 wins proves NOTHING? Really? NOTHING?!?!

So Quick's 39 wins prove nothing, but Bernier's 2 wins proves he deserves the reins as much as Quick? Sorry, that logic makes no sense to me.

Riding the hot hand is one thing, but you are taking this a step too far.
I agree here.

Quick is tired. No question.

Let's see if these two games off help before anointing Quick: Brodeur 2 Electric Boogaloo

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