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Michal Rozsival appreciation thread (2013 STANLEY CUP CHAMPION)

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04-03-2010, 10:19 AM
  #326
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Isn't this supposed to be a thread saying positive things about rozsival and not negative things.

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04-03-2010, 10:21 AM
  #327
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I think Rozy for 2 reasons

1) playing well and helping the team
2) playing well so he can be traded next yr

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04-03-2010, 11:10 AM
  #328
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Boom Boom,

I'd like to thank you for what i consider to be the definitive rebuttal to all the negative talk about roszival on this forum

you proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the vast majority of "haters" are simply inexperienced eyes watching a very small sample size of games, primarily in the beginning of the season

well F*in done....this thread should be closed now

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04-03-2010, 11:22 AM
  #329
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This threads for those who appreciate Rozsival (or don't mind him) what part of that don't you understand?

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04-03-2010, 02:38 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Boom Boom,

I'd like to thank you for what i consider to be the definitive rebuttal to all the negative talk about roszival on this forum
The sad thing is, I'm not a Rozsival fanboy. I'm just open-minded, and mature enough to pay credit where it's due. There's nothing wrong with praising a guy that you don't like.

There are numerous rivals of ours, that have no problems extending a towards our players that play exceptional. I can't explain what joy I get out of reading positive comments about Lundqvist from a Devils fan. Or an Islanders fan gushing over Callahan's tenacity.

That's what separates this forum, from other forums. The level of maturity amongst most of the regulars here. It really is the only place to have a legitimate discussion about something without the immature, and openly biased hatred like the guy Kenjets likes to spew.

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you proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the vast majority of "haters" are simply inexperienced eyes watching a very small sample size of games, primarily in the beginning of the season

well F*in done....this thread should be closed now
You know, until Kenjets started posting incorrect material, I didn't realize where Rozsival was in some areas of the game. I didn't know he was in the top 30'ish in blocked shots. I didn't realize he averaged about 1 giveaway every 3 games. I didn't even realize he only takes a minor every other game.

If anything, Kenjets brought out the best in Rozsival, but posting his opinion that ultimately proved to be very wrong.

Thanks for the tribute Chicken~

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04-05-2010, 11:35 AM
  #331
CHGoalie27
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Funny- Kenjets doesn't have to resort to the same cheap shots taken by the self-proclaimed "mature" crowd here!!!!

Kenjets talking about things wrong with Rozsival....
the others are talking about things wrong with kenjets(and others with similar views) more than what Rozsival actually does right...

I don't personally know either party...but I'm pretty sure that "openly biased hatred" kenjets has for rozsival wouldn't be an issue IF HE FELT ROZSIVAL WAS DOING HIS JOB.


Last edited by CHGoalie27: 04-05-2010 at 11:41 AM.
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04-05-2010, 11:39 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
Funny- Kenjets doesn't have to resort to the same cheap shots taken by the self-proclaimed "mature" crowd here!!!!

Kenjets talking about things wrong with Rozsival....
the others are talking about things wrong with kenjets(and others with similar views) more than what Rozsival actually does right...
you should go back and read the post where Boom Boom outlines everything Rosi does right

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04-05-2010, 12:09 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
you should go back and read the post where Boom Boom outlines everything Rosi does right
I can't find it.
If it isn't too much trouble, would you please find the post you speak of, quote him/repost his outlinings?

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04-05-2010, 12:20 PM
  #334
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the amount of koolaide being consumed in this thread is downright scary

to make matters worse, if there any posts critical of blowzy, the hater label comes out and then the attacks start.

"or those who dont mind him" includes fans who have issues with his play and all the koolaide drinkers both.

rozy is fine by me.... getting 2.5 mil per, playing 3rd pair minutes and no where near the pp point. but the moment we have a dman who can do what he can do for less money, hes gone.

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04-05-2010, 12:44 PM
  #335
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I never thought Rosival was a problem. He's had a couple of rough stretches, and actually made more fumbles when his home crowd was on him, which would be the case for a ton of NHL players.

Rosival, like Prucha, comes down to a large chunk of opinion-based arguments with both sides never seeing eye to eye.

You don't get a Rosival dman for 2.5 mil. He's 3.5-4.0 mil starting, but that's my opinion. If you don't agree with my opinion, that doesn't make yours correct.

He's been the least of my defensive worries over the years. Absolute least.

I agree with Boom Boom. I'm not a Rosi fanboy either but I realize what it's like to play D and what to expect when you play that position.

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04-05-2010, 12:52 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
the amount of koolaide being consumed in this thread is downright scary

to make matters worse, if there any posts critical of blowzy, the hater label comes out and then the attacks start.

"or those who dont mind him" includes fans who have issues with his play and all the koolaide drinkers both.

rozy is fine by me.... getting 2.5 mil per, playing 3rd pair minutes and no where near the pp point. but the moment we have a dman who can do what he can do for less money, hes gone.
Being a person who doesnt stray from subjective first impressions, it must kill you that Roszival and Dubinsky are having good seasons, being theyre perpetually on your hitlist.

I wont even mention the name of that other guy that you shilled for early in the season. You know, the guy who is perhaps the dumbest hockey player I've ever seen and has a perpetual seat in the pressbox, even with all these injuries.

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04-05-2010, 01:27 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Being a person who doesnt stray from subjective first impressions, it must kill you that Roszival and Dubinsky are having good seasons, being theyre perpetually on your hitlist.

I wont even mention the name of that other guy that you shilled for early in the season. You know, the guy who is perhaps the dumbest hockey player I've ever seen and has a perpetual seat in the pressbox, even with all these injuries.
blowzy is a fine 3rd pair guy who eats lots of minutes but produces next to nothing offensively. hes overpaid, soft as charmin and cant skate a lick, but again, as a 3rd pair guy, hes "serviceable" on a good team, hes nothing more than a 3rd pair guy. on this team, hes one of out top dmen.

dubi is fine as a 3rd line centerman or wing. going 20/20 is about right for him. hes got perhaps 25/25 potential if he plays top 6 minutes and pp- not that great btw. if hes on the 3rd line with no pp time, hes a 15/15 guy tops. his hockey iq is somewhere between jody shelley and a houseplant. in other words, im not impressed with his natural hockey iq. unlike lisin, who can create with nothing more than speed, dubi isnt as fortunate. he lacks top end speed, doesnt shoot it particularly well nor does he create much for others. alot of his goals are near the net on rebounds and garbage, nothing wrong with that mind you but its true and with the minutes he gets, i would expect him to be more productive. hes a 3rd liner on a below average team. nothing more.

as for the guy who we wont mention, hes been shafted by torts. im certainly not the only one who realizes that he couldnt be worse than pap, locke, or a few other roster guys who make alot more and play alot more.

when you are not a torts guy- irrespective of your ability or not, you arent gonna play. thats pretty obvious to me and would be to you too if you could overcome bias.

even the most arden haters would likely admit that the ef job torts has done on this guy is both unwarranted and surprising. given all the injuries, and now even playing aaron voros- the least talented player on the team- proves that its not his lack of talent/hockey iq thats keeping him in a suit but more likely a personal thing between the two of them. everytime he played after hes was waived, he made few mistakes and was skating hard and getting shots on net inspite of the fact that he was pretty much told he wansnt wanted.

i would point out that everyones wet dream, erik christensen has 6 goals in 54 games played this year- playing exclusively with offensive players. the same number of goals that other guy scored when he still played for the nyr.

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04-05-2010, 01:41 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
I can't find it.
If it isn't too much trouble, would you please find the post you speak of, quote him/repost his outlinings?
It requires very little effort to find it. Go back a page, instead of being lazy and asking others to do it for you.

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04-05-2010, 01:55 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
blowzy is a fine 3rd pair guy who eats lots of minutes but produces next to nothing offensively. hes overpaid, soft as charmin and cant skate a lick, but again, as a 3rd pair guy, hes "serviceable" on a good team, hes nothing more than a 3rd pair guy. on this team, hes one of out top dmen.
3rd pairing dman.. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. . . . .

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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
dubi is fine as a 3rd line centerman or wing. going 20/20 is about right for him. hes got perhaps 25/25 potential if he plays top 6 minutes and pp- not that great btw. if hes on the 3rd line with no pp time, hes a 15/15 guy tops. his hockey iq is somewhere between jody shelley and a houseplant. in other words, im not impressed with his natural hockey iq. unlike lisin, who can create with nothing more than speed, dubi isnt as fortunate. he lacks top end speed, doesnt shoot it particularly well nor does he create much for others. alot of his goals are near the net on rebounds and garbage, nothing wrong with that mind you but its true and with the minutes he gets, i would expect him to be more productive. hes a 3rd liner on a below average team. nothing more.
How many two-way third line centers do you know of that are going to finish with more than 20G or 50P, under the age of 25?

And you think he lacks top end speed? He's one of the fastest skaters on this team. And he creates a hell of a lot more with the puck than your youtube phenom Lisin.

3rd liner on a below average team? LOL... You're either confusing Dubinsky with someone else, or haven't been watching hockey very long.

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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
as for the guy who we wont mention, hes been shafted by torts. im certainly not the only one who realizes that he couldnt be worse than pap, locke, or a few other roster guys who make alot more and play alot more.
Shafted? What has Lisin done to warrant more playing time? The kid doesn't understand the game of hockey. He has a little bit of skill, but he's stupid. There's a lot more to hockey than a youtube highlight video.

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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
when you are not a torts guy- irrespective of your ability or not, you arent gonna play. thats pretty obvious to me and would be to you too if you could overcome bias.
He doesn't deserve to play. Period.

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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
even the most arden haters would likely admit that the ef job torts has done on this guy is both unwarranted and surprising. given all the injuries, and now even playing aaron voros- the least talented player on the team- proves that its not his lack of talent/hockey iq thats keeping him in a suit but more likely a personal thing between the two of them. everytime he played after hes was waived, he made few mistakes and was skating hard and getting shots on net inspite of the fact that he was pretty much told he wansnt wanted.
I'd rather see Voros instead of Lisin. That's how pathetic Lisin has played with us.

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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
i would point out that everyones wet dream, erik christensen has 6 goals in 54 games played this year- playing exclusively with offensive players. the same number of goals that other guy scored when he still played for the nyr.
EC can play Center though, something your favorite dummy isn't capable of. He also has a better understanding of the game, and actually knows how to effectively use his skills to create. Lisin is a lost puppy on the ice that's runs around from one end to the other. The kid has a solid set of skills, but he doesn't understand how to utilize them properly. He never will, imo. Future KHL product in the making, after he fails here in NY.

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04-05-2010, 02:01 PM
  #340
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You don't get a Rosival dman for 2.5 mil. He's 3.5-4.0 mil starting, but that's my opinion.
Some people don't understand free-agency. If Rozy was an UFA, I think he'd get a very similar contract to what he has now.

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04-05-2010, 02:04 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Some people don't understand free-agency. If Rozy was an UFA, I think he'd get a very similar contract to what he has now.
I think he'd get a bit less now, as this is two consecutive seasons his offense has declined. However, his contract at the time was reasonable for a UFA.

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04-05-2010, 02:24 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Some people don't understand free-agency. If Rozy was an UFA, I think he'd get a very similar contract to what he has now.
What even fewer people realize is how valuable a defenseman who can consistently play over 20 minutes a night in the NHL actually is.

Rozsival is not exceptional at anything, but he is adequeate in pretty much every part of the game that a defenseman needs to possess. He, along with Staal, have quietly been the horses of this backline for the past couple of seasons now.

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04-05-2010, 02:25 PM
  #343
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I think he'd get a bit less now, as this is two consecutive seasons his offense has declined. However, his contract at the time was reasonable for a UFA.
Id agree with that.

But even still, without the absolutely crazy contracts of Redden and Drury, I dont think the Rozsival contract would really be hurting this team much at all in correspondence to his performance.

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04-05-2010, 02:32 PM
  #344
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Rozy would get between 3.75 to 4 nil IMO, and the loss of a mil is due to his seasonal dropoff in offensive production.

For now, a 5 mil dman playing 27 minutes a night solid, is the least of our worries or our problems as a franchise. We have a 6.5 million dollar dman playing 13 minutes a night and blocking a superior defenseman in Sauer or Heikkinen from making the team.

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04-05-2010, 02:40 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Even now, months after his failed promotion of Lisin, he still tries to find ways to justify things.

The dumbest player in the league, who has absolutely zero understanding of the game, is a better top-6 option than Dubi, according to OTCB. That's all the proof one needs to completely ignore his opinon, because it's practically worthless.
Uh oh... is someone a little sensitive?

The last 3 times someone has had a difference in opinion than you on a ranger's player you have attacked their "hockey intelligence" instead of presenting a better argument. Instead of calling people lazy how about this... as i said in several previous posts make a CLEAR list of all the positive things that Rosival does. You haven't made one yet and something tells me you won't in the future. Instead you gave me some meaningless statistics that you believed would silence me and you responded on my list of what rosival does. You are more worried about "winning" battles with people on this forum than actually presenting clear and valid arguments. I would not bother denying that, it seems pretty true, as you said to me "Admit Defeat" and as you keep on trying to disprove other posters' opinions by telling others that what they write is worthless... therefore implying that your opinion is superior and more correct than others who post. I'm not in some sort of battle with you, and people who go into these arguments with that mentality will always lose the point of the original argument they are trying to make. You have no central idea that you have been trying to prove, and neither do most of the posts that support Rosival's play in this thread. All you guys say is "he's been our most valuable defenseman" but thats the extent of it. You might sprinkle in a few statistics, or just say "in relation to the other ranger defensemen Rosival is in fact our best one".

No that's not the mark of a well playing defensemen... his play in comparison to the other 5 defensemen on the team. Nothing he does is above average, nothing he does is worth his salary. And until someone on this thread can give me a clear list of reasons why Rosival is worth his 5 million dollar a year salary, or just a list of the positive characteristics of Rosival's play (something that he does better than other defensemen... or just well for that matter), I will not acknowledge that he is a good defenseman, or even decent.

And by the way i can't see how you would be comparing Lisin to Dubinsky. Lisin was never given the opportunity to consistently play on this Rangers team, let alone play on either of the top 2 lines. Dubinsky has been playing on top lines ever since he was paired with Jagr in his rookie year. What does Dubinsky have that makes you all drool over him? He has some fire, which is good, but he's not too great on his faceoffs (after all he is a center) and he's not offensively talented for that matter, as someone said his max potential is 25 and 25. He's a puck hog, he can't create plays on his own, he can't get a grasp on the greater scheme of a play, he'll try and control the puck with 1 skate while shouldering off defenders with his other (usually that will end up with him controlling the puck to the end line and then scrapping some shot where he has no angle). Then again, when he does have a clear shot itll be one of the easiest the goalie has ever seen as it will go right to his chest. But I'm not really complaining. Dubinsky's contract is in check with his play as he's worth most every penny of it. He however is not a 1st line center nor a 2nd. He is a 3rd, he's an "energy player" as i call him. He should be counted on to bring the team energy, to be on the grinding line (the physical line), not as the center who will be on the same line as the team's best offensive talent. He doesnt have the speed to keep up with those players, nor does he have the intelligence on ice to be compatible with those players. As for Lisin, how can you make an assumption on his play by calling him "the dumbest player in the hockey league" when we haven't seen enough of him to know. His role is so inconsistent that all we could be seeing from him is jitters.

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04-05-2010, 02:45 PM
  #346
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Ive seen enough of Lisin to know that he has tunnel vision, hasnt scored at a high level in any league, and will never, ever touch the player that Dubinsky is. Dubinsky is the superior player in ever facet of the game except speed skating. Puckhandling, vision, physicality, versatility, release, penalty killing, work along the boards, passing. All vastly superior to white Apolo Ohno with a stick here.

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04-05-2010, 03:16 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Ive seen enough of Lisin to know that he has tunnel vision, hasnt scored at a high level in any league, and will never, ever touch the player that Dubinsky is. Dubinsky is the superior player in ever facet of the game except speed skating. Puckhandling, vision, physicality, versatility, release, penalty killing, work along the boards, passing. All vastly superior to white Apolo Ohno with a stick here.
Whoa here. You're going a bit over board in trying to prove a point. "never touch the play that Dubinsky is". You are making Dubinsky seem like he is Gretzky! Not to say that you are being completely unfair on Lisin's play.

You are a stats guy. So here are some stats for you:

Brandon Dubinsky... this year he averages roughly 19 minutes a game. His role has more or less stayed the same for the purposes of this we'll say Dubinsky averaged 19 minutes a game for the past 2 seasons, on one of the top 2 lines.

2008-2009

13 g, 28 a, 82 games

2009-2010

19 g, 21 a, 65 games

Enver Lisin... this year averages roughly 10 minutes a game. His role throughout the season has varied, playing on almost every line, playing from 45 seconds a game to 13 minutes a game, mainly however on the 3rd or 4th line.

2008-2009 (phoenix)

13 g, 8 a, 48 games

2009-2010

6 g, 8 a, 57 games


As a member of Phoenix, Lisin played a similar role as he did with the Rangers, changing lines never really having a concrete role. However he moved up to the 2nd line and began producing more. He had a role on the power play and more confidence from his team mates and coaches. He played 48 games that season, ever hardly touching the first line, and yet he scored the same amount of goals as dubinsky? He averages 9 minutes less than Dubinsky, yet he has the ability to match Dubinsky's goal total for an entire season playing 34 less games and averaging 9 less minutes those games, playing on far less offensively potent and talented lines for the majority of the season.

That's not apollo ono with a stick. That's someone who is undervalued and misused. If you want to talk about tunnel vision Dubinsky is your prime candidate. I can't remember when there wasn't a game where Dubinsky missed several prime opportunities to pass the puck to a team mate wide open for a good scoring opportunity and instead either passed it to a team mate who was being thoroughly defended or kept the puck for himself and tried to force a shot when there was none to be had.

Don't get me wrong. I like Brandon. You're right, he's versatile, he's valuable to this team. But don't go making claims on players' abilities. If Enver was given 82 games on the top line averaging 19 minutes a game i wouldnt be surprised if he had 30+ goals and 20+ assists. Something Dubinsky is not capable of.

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04-05-2010, 03:20 PM
  #348
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I respectfully disagree. First off, even if Lisin pulls off an offensive season equal to Dubinsky's he still doesn't have the same value. He doesnt play defense, he doesnt hit, he is lacking all the extra value that Dubinsky has.

And I dont think too many people are on board with your theory that Dubinsky has poor vision in comparison with Lisin.

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04-05-2010, 03:31 PM
  #349
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Uh oh... is someone a little sensitive?

The last 3 times someone has had a difference in opinion than you on a ranger's player you have attacked their "hockey intelligence" instead of presenting a better argument. Instead of calling people lazy how about this... as i said in several previous posts make a CLEAR list of all the positive things that Rosival does. You haven't made one yet and something tells me you won't in the future. Instead you gave me some meaningless statistics that you believed would silence me and you responded on my list of what rosival does. You are more worried about "winning" battles with people on this forum than actually presenting clear and valid arguments. I would not bother denying that, it seems pretty true, as you said to me "Admit Defeat" and as you keep on trying to disprove other posters' opinions by telling others that what they write is worthless... therefore implying that your opinion is superior and more correct than others who post. I'm not in some sort of battle with you, and people who go into these arguments with that mentality will always lose the point of the original argument they are trying to make. You have no central idea that you have been trying to prove, and neither do most of the posts that support Rosival's play in this thread. All you guys say is "he's been our most valuable defenseman" but thats the extent of it. You might sprinkle in a few statistics, or just say "in relation to the other ranger defensemen Rosival is in fact our best one".

No that's not the mark of a well playing defensemen... his play in comparison to the other 5 defensemen on the team. Nothing he does is above average, nothing he does is worth his salary. And until someone on this thread can give me a clear list of reasons why Rosival is worth his 5 million dollar a year salary, or just a list of the positive characteristics of Rosival's play (something that he does better than other defensemen... or just well for that matter), I will not acknowledge that he is a good defenseman, or even decent.

And by the way i can't see how you would be comparing Lisin to Dubinsky. Lisin was never given the opportunity to consistently play on this Rangers team, let alone play on either of the top 2 lines. Dubinsky has been playing on top lines ever since he was paired with Jagr in his rookie year. What does Dubinsky have that makes you all drool over him? He has some fire, which is good, but he's not too great on his faceoffs (after all he is a center) and he's not offensively talented for that matter, as someone said his max potential is 25 and 25. He's a puck hog, he can't create plays on his own, he can't get a grasp on the greater scheme of a play, he'll try and control the puck with 1 skate while shouldering off defenders with his other (usually that will end up with him controlling the puck to the end line and then scrapping some shot where he has no angle). Then again, when he does have a clear shot itll be one of the easiest the goalie has ever seen as it will go right to his chest. But I'm not really complaining. Dubinsky's contract is in check with his play as he's worth most every penny of it. He however is not a 1st line center nor a 2nd. He is a 3rd, he's an "energy player" as i call him. He should be counted on to bring the team energy, to be on the grinding line (the physical line), not as the center who will be on the same line as the team's best offensive talent. He doesnt have the speed to keep up with those players, nor does he have the intelligence on ice to be compatible with those players. As for Lisin, how can you make an assumption on his play by calling him "the dumbest player in the hockey league" when we haven't seen enough of him to know. His role is so inconsistent that all we could be seeing from him is jitters.
As usual, I see a lot of words in your posts, but no valid points.

As far as my list of what he does well, I already stated I wouldn't provide that list for you since you said it yourself, you're unable to give an unbiased opinion about Rozy because you do not like him. That means, no matter what argument I present, you'll shoot it down for your personal reason's.

You criticize Rozy for never, ever blocking shots. Statistically, he's ranked in the 30's amongst dmen in that category.

You criticize Rozsival for taking too many penalties. I provide you some data showing you that he averages less than 1 minor every other game.

You criticize Rozsival for forcing too many turnovers. He has 26 turnovers on the year, which averages out to about 1 turnover every 3 games.

Why don't you explain how you came to your conclusions that ultimately prove to be wrong? How do you criticize Rozsival for not blocking shots when he's ranked in the 30's in the league? Or criticize Rozsival for making too many turnovers, when he only averages 1 every 3 games? The answer for that is simple. It's bolded, and highlighted, actually.

Enough with you. I'm not going to sink any more of my time in a discussion that you can't even keep up with. I feel like I'm arguing the color of the sky with you with all the dumb, unresearched statements you're tossing around.

Your opinion isn't some sort of edict from god. Back up your statements with data and statistics that prove your garbage theory's. Odds are you can't though. The only crutch you have in this discussion, is opinion.

So explain to me why I should value your opinion when you post blatant lies? Because that's what I consider them to be at this point.

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04-05-2010, 03:37 PM
  #350
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I respectfully disagree. First off, even if Lisin pulls off an offensive season equal to Dubinsky's he still doesn't have the same value. He doesnt play defense, he doesnt hit, he is lacking all the extra value that Dubinsky has.

And I dont think too many people are on board with your theory that Dubinsky has poor vision in comparison with Lisin.
No..

What he's trying to tell you, is that he has a better understanding of the players on this team than the professionals being paid to run it.

I think he's better off trying to convince us that Matt Gilroy will end up being more physical than jeff beukeboom.

Any experienced hockey fan will easily identify what makes Dubinsky the superior player. It's not even halfway debatable.

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