HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Zetterberg v Fedorov…..the cooler iceman?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-02-2010, 01:34 PM
  #51
Heaton
#disapointment
 
Heaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rochester, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 17,153
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Heaton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Good answer.
So all those days when people posted WTF HANK!! -- Just ignore them.

But when Fedorov had them, he was lazy.
If the internet was as prominent as it is now when Fedorov was in his prime with youtube and blogs I think the venom would've been 10x as much.

Heaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 03:41 PM
  #52
HockeyinHD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Good answer.
Hey, thanks!

Quote:
So all those days when people posted WTF HANK!! -- Just ignore them.

But when Fedorov had them, he was lazy.
Well, considering both guys have been routinely called out by their coaches for lack of effort, I guess I have to agree with you.

Totally the same situation.

Seriously Tin, get real for a second. Yes, obviously, there are any number of reasons why a guy can have a bad shift, a bad period, a bad game, a bad month, a bad year, a bad career, whatever. It's almost never just one thing that separates one guy from another guy, good players from great players, or NHLers from Maxim Kuznetzov.

However, I think it stretches credulity to say that 'effort' wasn't way higher on the list of things that impeded Fedorov than it is/was for Zetterberg.

That's totally my opinion, based on little more than my own impressions and my interpretations of the things people like Scotty freaking Bowman have said and hinted at over the years... so if you want to think that Henrik Zetterberg struggles as much to provide consistent effort as Fedorov did, since Congress hasn't quite gotten around to restricting messageboards, you're more than free to do so.

HockeyinHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 03:47 PM
  #53
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Hey, thanks!



Well, considering both guys have been routinely called out by their coaches for lack of effort, I guess I have to agree with you.

Totally the same situation.

Seriously Tin, get real for a second. Yes, obviously, there are any number of reasons why a guy can have a bad shift, a bad period, a bad game, a bad month, a bad year, a bad career, whatever. It's almost never just one thing that separates one guy from another guy, good players from great players, or NHLers from Maxim Kuznetzov.

However, I think it stretches credulity to say that 'effort' wasn't way higher on the list of things that impeded Fedorov than it is/was for Zetterberg.

That's totally my opinion, based on little more than my own impressions and my interpretations of the things people like Scotty freaking Bowman have said and hinted at over the years... so if you want to think that Henrik Zetterberg struggles as much to provide consistent effort as Fedorov did, since Congress hasn't quite gotten around to restricting messageboards, you're more than free to do so.

Uh-huh.
So explain why Zetterberg and Datsyuk were so flat this year?

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 04:05 PM
  #54
HockeyinHD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Uh-huh.
So explain why Zetterberg and Datsyuk were so flat this year?
Let me take on a trip down memory lane, hearkening back to that age old classic from all of about...

...fifteen minutes ago:

"Yes, obviously, there are any number of reasons why a guy can have a bad shift, a bad period, a bad game, a bad month, a bad year, a bad career, whatever."

So, if you're asking for my opinion...

First things first, Z wasn't flat this year. By the end of November he had 26 games, 10 goals, and 17 assists. Then he got hurt in December, and then by the time he gets back and gets fully healthy it's the middle of January. From then (1/14) on he's had 13 goals and 22 assists in 32 games. That isn't bad, either. 58 total games, 23 goals, 39 assists.

So essentially that leaves the 10ish games in December through the middle of January. Honestly, I think it's reasonable to allow a guy a rough few weeks, especially when one of them is spent coming off an injury.

I think that disposes of Z. Now, as far as Datsyuk goes... I don't precisely know. His production was down for most of the first five months of the year. Maybe the foot injury from last year still pained him a little, maybe he was tired from a big long stretch of play over the past few seasons, maybe not having a goalscorer like Franzen affected him more directly as a pass-first guy than it did Zetterberg as more of a shoot first guy.

And maybe, just maybe, he's having a down year.

The difference is, I haven't seen or heard anything about Datsyuk that makes me think he doesn't give 100% effort, or as close to 100% effort as you can get,and I would think a guy like Mike Babcock would suss that kind of tendency out in about .00000001 seconds and deal with it were it there in the first place.

So, there you have it.

HockeyinHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 04:48 PM
  #55
FabricDetails
Registered User
 
FabricDetails's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Now, as far as Datsyuk goes... I don't precisely know. His production was down for most of the first five months of the year. Maybe the foot injury from last year still pained him a little, maybe he was tired from a big long stretch of play over the past few seasons, maybe not having a goalscorer like Franzen affected him more directly as a pass-first guy than it did Zetterberg as more of a shoot first guy.
A lot of people on here might not think much of this but his daughter started school this year... in Russia. His wife and his daughter moved to Russia because she was old enough to start school. For a guy that values family like Pav does, that had to be on his mind a lot. I mean, how does that not affect your professional life?

FabricDetails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 05:33 PM
  #56
lazerbullet
Registered User
 
lazerbullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
A lot of people on here might not think much of this but his daughter started school this year... in Russia. His wife and his daughter moved to Russia because she was old enough to start school. For a guy that values family like Pav does, that had to be on his mind a lot. I mean, how does that not affect your professional life?
Indeed. I read an interview in August. And I was wondering how he will manage without family. That might be the biggest reason why Dats is having just an average season. Plus, I suspect that it might his last contract in the NHL.

lazerbullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 05:38 PM
  #57
FabricDetails
Registered User
 
FabricDetails's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazerbullet View Post
Plus, I suspect that it might his last contract in the NHL.
Yup. Wings fans don't like to hear that but once he said that he wanted to finish his career I figured that he'll fulfill his contract and then play for the KHL.

FabricDetails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 06:07 PM
  #58
Captain Lebyadkin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Trondheim
Country: Norway
Posts: 295
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Yeah, he and my parents were good friends. My family had several events at Bakers of Milford over the years. Haven't been back to the SL Hotel in a few years though.

To be on topic, from a guy's perspective, Zetterberg is the "cooler iceman." That beard trumps anything Fedorov brings to the table.


By coolest iceman I was referring, with my own twist on it, to the common sports adjective or epithet for someone who is clutch and who is not fazed by the pressure of the situation. Lol as in iceman i.e. ice running through their veins, cold blooded, cool under pressure etc…ah I think that’s what it is

I thought it was a clever title!





Captain Lebyadkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 07:08 PM
  #59
TorontoWingsFan
Registered User
 
TorontoWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Samoa
Posts: 1,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
Wrong. Just... wrong.
Ah, NO.

Already Z in his short career has topped Sergei's highest output.

And even in a hurt team last year and added defensive responsibility with the injuries, he again managed to come within a few pts of his Conn Smythe performance.

By contrast last time the old guard won the cup, Sergei was outscored by a 1 legged Steve Yzerman.

Even against embarrassment's like Edmonton '06 Hank scored every game, dispute not being on the top line. Contrast that to Anaheim '04 and tell me where Fedorov was.

TorontoWingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 07:12 PM
  #60
DetBigWangs
Registered User
 
DetBigWangs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
A lot of people on here might not think much of this but his daughter started school this year... in Russia. His wife and his daughter moved to Russia because she was old enough to start school. For a guy that values family like Pav does, that had to be on his mind a lot. I mean, how does that not affect your professional life?
Really? I didn't hear about this. Surprised he didn't want his family to stay in the States. Not meaning that being educated Russian is bad, but I don't think any other country has as widespread and comprehensive a university/college systems as ours.

DetBigWangs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 07:12 PM
  #61
heyfolks
Registered User
 
heyfolks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: redwingcenter.com
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 990
vCash: 500
Sergei has more raw skill and has accomplishe more as a Wing, but Hank still has time to catch and/or surpass him.

Both are Red Wing HOF locks (if the wings have a hall, wall, or room for such things).

People don't like Sergei's attitude or how he left. meh The guy was on the team for 3 Cups and was the best Wing forward for part of that period, if not all of it.

heyfolks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 07:48 PM
  #62
jaster
I pay off the mods.
 
jaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 6,274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetBigWangs View Post
Really? I didn't hear about this. Surprised he didn't want his family to stay in the States. Not meaning that being educated Russian is bad, but I don't think any other country has as widespread and comprehensive a university/college systems as ours.
College and university, yes. But the US lags behind many countries when it comes to K12 age groups. I'm not sure where Russia falls though.

jaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 08:11 PM
  #63
HockeyinHD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
College and university, yes. But the US lags behind many countries when it comes to K12 age groups. I'm not sure where Russia falls though.
People underestimate the educational benefits of free condoms.

HockeyinHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2010, 08:13 PM
  #64
Father Ted
 
Father Ted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Lyon, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 97
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padan View Post
Is Zetterberg really that bad of a skater? He looks quite fast on television...
Hank has a really good knack for positioning. He's not very fast, but he's shifty, and he always seems to be in the right place at the right time. He doesn't chase the puck unless he's chasing an opponent with the puck. He doesn't see where the puck is, but where it's going to end up.

He also has some explosiveness. The ability to kick it into a higher gear at just the right moment. Like Yzerman, he's sneaky-fast.

Jaster: The South Lyon Hotel is flourishing, thanks in no small part to my steady patronage.

Father Ted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-03-2010, 10:48 AM
  #65
lazerbullet
Registered User
 
lazerbullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetBigWangs View Post
Really? I didn't hear about this. Surprised he didn't want his family to stay in the States. Not meaning that being educated Russian is bad, but I don't think any other country has as widespread and comprehensive a university/college systems as ours.
Most of the Eastern Europeans (and especially Russians) think that education in the US totally sucks. It's like an urban legend.

In Dats case it might nothing to do with it. They probably just want their girl to grow up as a Russian, not American. And it's pretty obvious that Dats will move back to Russia. He spends all his summers there (unlike many other Russian NHLers). Datsyuk is still a Russian, while Feds, Kovalev and many others are already Americans.

On topic. Feds is a better player. Period.
Z's clutch is overrated. He might be clutch compared to Dats, but he is nothing special compared to Feds, or Sakic. Actually... you do have clutch EN goals

Feds is on the the most naturally gifted players of all time. When he was "on", then he was outplaying Sakic, Forsberg, Mario, you name it.
Z is not in the same league, if we talk about talent. But he compensates his "lack" of talent with hard work and hot wife.

lazerbullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-03-2010, 10:58 AM
  #66
DetBigWangs
Registered User
 
DetBigWangs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazerbullet View Post
Most of the Eastern Europeans (and especially Russians) think that education in the US totally sucks. It's like an urban legend.

In Dats case it might nothing to do with it. They probably just want their girl to grow up as a Russian, not American. And it's pretty obvious that Dats will move back to Russia. He spends all his summers there (unlike many other Russian NHLers). Datsyuk is still a Russian, while Feds, Kovalev and many others are already Americans.

On topic. Feds is a better player. Period.
Z's clutch is overrated. He might be clutch compared to Dats, but he is nothing special compared to Feds, or Sakic. Actually... you do have clutch EN goals

Feds is on the the most naturally gifted players of all time. When he was "on", then he was outplaying Sakic, Forsberg, Mario, you name it.
Z is not in the same league, if we talk about talent. But he compensates his "lack" of talent with hard work and hot wife.
Compared to the rest of the world, primary and secondary education does suck. It's post-secondary that the US starts to pick it up. Now that I think about it, it adds to the whole "rich get richer, poor get poorer" sort of thing I would think we're known for.

DetBigWangs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-03-2010, 01:48 PM
  #67
jaster
I pay off the mods.
 
jaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 6,274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazerbullet View Post
Most of the Eastern Europeans (and especially Russians) think that education in the US totally sucks. It's like an urban legend.

In Dats case it might nothing to do with it. They probably just want their girl to grow up as a Russian, not American. And it's pretty obvious that Dats will move back to Russia. He spends all his summers there (unlike many other Russian NHLers). Datsyuk is still a Russian, while Feds, Kovalev and many others are already Americans.

On topic. Feds is a better player. Period.
Z's clutch is overrated. He might be clutch compared to Dats, but he is nothing special compared to Feds, or Sakic. Actually... you do have clutch EN goals

Feds is on the the most naturally gifted players of all time. When he was "on", then he was outplaying Sakic, Forsberg, Mario, you name it.
Z is not in the same league, if we talk about talent. But he compensates his "lack" of talent with hard work and hot wife.
Love the avatar. One of my favorite actors and one of my favorite movies.

I agree that Fedorov was the better player, but I think Zetterberg's "clutch," or performance in big games, is actually underrated. He does so many subtle things, other than just scoring, in critical moments. Sometimes those things come to the surface for the casual observer, like the stick lift on Crosby in the '08 Final, but he does that stuff often, thinks the game extremely well. In sum, I think he's in pretty favorable company in that category.


Last edited by jaster: 04-03-2010 at 03:28 PM.
jaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-03-2010, 03:07 PM
  #68
Yemack
Registered User
 
Yemack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazerbullet View Post
Most of the Eastern Europeans (and especially Russians) think that education in the US totally sucks. It's like an urban legend.

In Dats case it might nothing to do with it. They probably just want their girl to grow up as a Russian, not American. And it's pretty obvious that Dats will move back to Russia. He spends all his summers there (unlike many other Russian NHLers). Datsyuk is still a Russian, while Feds, Kovalev and many others are already Americans.

On topic. Feds is a better player. Period.
Z's clutch is overrated. He might be clutch compared to Dats, but he is nothing special compared to Feds, or Sakic. Actually... you do have clutch EN goals

Feds is on the the most naturally gifted players of all time. When he was "on", then he was outplaying Sakic, Forsberg, Mario, you name it.
Z is not in the same league, if we talk about talent. But he compensates his "lack" of talent with hard work and hot wife.
OT but I'm guessing Pav's girl moving back to russia has nothing to do with quality of education. If he really think so, he needs to reconsider because If he actually looked for it, there are far superior education institution in north america than rest of the world combined.

I think it has to do more about him wanting his girl growing up in Russian way. I've seen many guys who wanna do that first hand.

As for Fedorov's ON switch, he rarely used it and that's why I think Z is better. Saying Fedorov would trounce Z is like saying team Russia would destroy team Canada with its skill in Vancouver

Yemack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-03-2010, 03:16 PM
  #69
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
I think there are a lot of people who don't understand just how good Fedorov was.
Go back to 2002, in the series against Colorado.
He didn't rack up points, but I've never seen a guy dominate the ice the way he did. Pure speed and an uncanny ability to close all the gaps and shut down the defense.
He didn't beat you with puck pursuit. He beat you by owning the ice.
Talk to Yzerman about why he was able to play in the playoffs in 2002. The reason why he was even on the ice is because Fedorov was so dominant that he could cover for a slow, nearly crippled forward playing on one leg.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-03-2010, 03:32 PM
  #70
Yemack
Registered User
 
Yemack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I think there are a lot of people who don't understand just how good Fedorov was.
Go back to 2002, in the series against Colorado.
He didn't rack up points, but I've never seen a guy dominate the ice the way he did. Pure speed and an uncanny ability to close all the gaps and shut down the defense.
He didn't beat you with puck pursuit. He beat you by owning the ice.
Talk to Yzerman about why he was able to play in the playoffs in 2002. The reason why he was even on the ice is because Fedorov was so dominant that he could cover for a slow, nearly crippled forward playing on one leg.
I remember him playing very well but I don't remember him being THAT dominant player in that series. I just remember everyone played real hard giving no space for any play.

Yemack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-03-2010, 04:44 PM
  #71
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yemack View Post
I remember him playing very well but I don't remember him being THAT dominant player in that series. I just remember everyone played real hard giving no space for any play.
It was the best example of a center controlling the tempo of a game I've ever seen.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-03-2010, 05:45 PM
  #72
HockeyinHD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I think there are a lot of people who don't understand just how good Fedorov was.
At times, Fedorov was absolutely fantastic, no question.

The thing is, I believe that while people who didn't personally witness the past sometimes don't have an accurate assessment of what happened, it's just as true that people who do witness the past tend to romanticize it and end up with a position just as skewed.

HockeyinHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-03-2010, 11:46 PM
  #73
aar000n
Registered User
 
aar000n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,252
vCash: 500
not even close Fedorox was faster in his prime
Played better defence
Passes the puck better
could create goals on his own.
He also had more power and he could cut to the net with somone on his back.

the numbers speak for themself

aar000n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-04-2010, 12:45 PM
  #74
Shoalzie
Registered User
 
Shoalzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Portland, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 14,183
vCash: 500
Fedorov is arguably the most talented and complete player that has ever worn the winged wheel...even more than Yzerman or Lidstrom.

Hank is skilled but he's kind of an over-achiever. His smarts and work ethic makes him an excellent player.

Shoalzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:45 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.