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Old
04-04-2010, 07:19 PM
  #1
Dr Jan Itor
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2010 Offseason

Figured being officially eliminated warranted a look towards the summer. Just my $0.02. Here we go...

Established Players Under Contract
Koivu, Brunette, Miettinen, Havlat, Kobesew, Brodziak, Clutterbuck, Zanon, Burns, Barker, Zidlicky, Schultz, Stoner, Backstrom

Cap Hit: ~$40.4 million
Cap Space: ~$16.3 million (depending on what the cap does)

Note: I'm not counting Bouchard; if he comes back, most of the following is shot to ****

Free Agent Signings/Re-signings
Re-sign Latendresse 3-4 years @ $3-4 million per year (call it $3.5)
Re-sign Ebbet @ ~$1 mil
Drop Boogaard & Scott, sign Shawn Thornton (UFA-Bos): more offensive ability but can still throw some knuckles around when he has to
Re-sign Earl as a regular 4th line W @ ~$750k
Sign a cheap backup goalie or make Khoudobin backup @ ~$750k (No Harding? See below)

Draft Day Trade
I realize the chances of getting Patrick Sharpe from Chicago are probably very slim. I don't see a way to do it straight up. So I added a team.

Wild Get:
Sharpe (from Chi)
2010 6th rounder (from NJ)

Devils Get:
Harding (from Min)
2010 4th rounder (from Chi)

Blackhawks Get:
Miettinen (from Min)
2010 2nd rounder (from Min)
2010 2nd rounder (from NJ)

Why Minnesota does it: get a legit 1st line scoring winger for Koivu; only a $1.6 mil bump in salary; gets value for Harding
Why NJ does it: they have 1 goalie prospect in their system, his name is Jeff Frazee. Brodeur is 37 years old. Enough said.
Why Chicago does it: Mittens is cheaper, contract expires (good for a team in a bit of salary cap angst) and plays same position. Also get semi-high draft picks (a good way to find CHEAP talent)

Who says no? Probably Chicago. If they make Sharpe available, I'm sure that they could get better offers. However, do they still say no if MN adds a 2011 first round pick? I'm not so sure anymore.

2nd Line Center
We have expensive options and we have cheap options.
First the cheap:
Put Wellman in there ($900k)
Put Ebbet in there and sign another cheap 4th line center
Maybe our 2010 first rounder is a center that can fill in right away.
All of those options still put the Wild with about $6.5 million in cap room, and a line-up like this:

Brunette $2.333 - Koivu $3.25 - Sharpe $3.9
Latendresse $3.5 - Wellman (or other) $900k - Havlat $5
Kobesew $2.333 - Brodziak $1.15 - Clutterbuck $1.4
Thornton $1 - Ebbet $1 - Earl $750k

Zanon $1.933 - Zidlicky $4
Burns $3.55 - Barker $3.083
Schultz $3.5 - Stoner $550k

Backstrom $6
Backup $750k

Cap Hit: $49.9 million
Cap Space: $6.9
Puts us in a good position to not have to worry about money for Koivu's extension

Expensive Options
Spend ~$2-4 million on an established, legit #2 center. A quick search found me these names (pending UFA's): Marleau, Plekanec, S. Koivu, Jokinen, Cullen, Comrie

My choice would be to sign Cullen at ~$3 mil per year and put him in between Lats and Havlat. That would give us a line-up like this:

Brunette $2.333 - Koivu $3.25 - Sharpe $3.9
Latendresse $3.5 - Cullen $3 - Havlat $5
Kobesew $2.333 - Brodziak $1.15 - Clutterbuck $1.4
Thornton $1 - Ebbet $1 - Earl $750k

Zanon $1.933 - Zidlicky $4
Burns $3.55 - Barker $3.083
Schultz $3.5 - Stoner $550k

Backstrom $6
Backup $750k

Cap Hit: ~$52 million
Cap Space: ~4.8 million

I actually really like that line-up, and with Brunette coming off the books, Koivu's extension shouldn't be a problem.

Questions:
Is a 2011 first rounder too much to include in a deal for Patrick Sharpe? What if it was top-8 or top-10 protected?

Does the original trade proposal seem fair? If not, who gets screwed?

Which of the two 2nd line center options would you prefer?

What should they offer to Latendresse (# of years and salary)? Is $3.5 million fair?

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04-04-2010, 07:42 PM
  #2
mnwildgophers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Figured being officially eliminated warranted a look towards the summer. Just my $0.02. Here we go...

Established Players Under Contract
Koivu, Brunette, Miettinen, Havlat, Kobesew, Brodziak, Clutterbuck, Zanon, Burns, Barker, Zidlicky, Schultz, Stoner, Backstrom

Cap Hit: ~$40.4 million
Cap Space: ~$16.3 million (depending on what the cap does)

Note: I'm not counting Bouchard; if he comes back, most of the following is shot to ****

Free Agent Signings/Re-signings
Re-sign Latendresse 3-4 years @ $3-4 million per year (call it $3.5)
Re-sign Ebbet @ ~$1 mil
Drop Boogaard & Scott, sign Shawn Thornton (UFA-Bos): more offensive ability but can still throw some knuckles around when he has to
Re-sign Earl as a regular 4th line W @ ~$750k
Sign a cheap backup goalie or make Khoudobin backup @ ~$750k (No Harding? See below)

Draft Day Trade
I realize the chances of getting Patrick Sharpe from Chicago are probably very slim. I don't see a way to do it straight up. So I added a team.

Wild Get:
Sharpe (from Chi)
2010 6th rounder (from NJ)

Devils Get:
Harding (from Min)
2010 4th rounder (from Chi)

Blackhawks Get:
Miettinen (from Min)
2010 2nd rounder (from Min)
2010 2nd rounder (from NJ)

Why Minnesota does it: get a legit 1st line scoring winger for Koivu; only a $1.6 mil bump in salary; gets value for Harding
Why NJ does it: they have 1 goalie prospect in their system, his name is Jeff Frazee. Brodeur is 37 years old. Enough said.
Why Chicago does it: Mittens is cheaper, contract expires (good for a team in a bit of salary cap angst) and plays same position. Also get semi-high draft picks (a good way to find CHEAP talent)

Who says no? Probably Chicago. If they make Sharpe available, I'm sure that they could get better offers. However, do they still say no if MN adds a 2011 first round pick? I'm not so sure anymore.

2nd Line Center
We have expensive options and we have cheap options.
First the cheap:
Put Wellman in there ($900k)
Put Ebbet in there and sign another cheap 4th line center
Maybe our 2010 first rounder is a center that can fill in right away.
All of those options still put the Wild with about $6.5 million in cap room, and a line-up like this:

Brunette $2.333 - Koivu $3.25 - Sharpe $3.9
Latendresse $3.5 - Wellman (or other) $900k - Havlat $5
Kobesew $2.333 - Brodziak $1.15 - Clutterbuck $1.4
Thornton $1 - Ebbet $1 - Earl $750k

Zanon $1.933 - Zidlicky $4
Burns $3.55 - Barker $3.083
Schultz $3.5 - Stoner $550k

Backstrom $6
Backup $750k

Cap Hit: $49.9 million
Cap Space: $6.9
Puts us in a good position to not have to worry about money for Koivu's extension

Expensive Options
Spend ~$2-4 million on an established, legit #2 center. A quick search found me these names (pending UFA's): Marleau, Plekanec, S. Koivu, Jokinen, Cullen, Comrie

My choice would be to sign Cullen at ~$3 mil per year and put him in between Lats and Havlat. That would give us a line-up like this:

Brunette $2.333 - Koivu $3.25 - Sharpe $3.9
Latendresse $3.5 - Cullen $3 - Havlat $5
Kobesew $2.333 - Brodziak $1.15 - Clutterbuck $1.4
Thornton $1 - Ebbet $1 - Earl $750k

Zanon $1.933 - Zidlicky $4
Burns $3.55 - Barker $3.083
Schultz $3.5 - Stoner $550k

Backstrom $6
Backup $750k

Cap Hit: ~$52 million
Cap Space: ~4.8 million

I actually really like that line-up, and with Brunette coming off the books, Koivu's extension shouldn't be a problem.

Questions:
Is a 2011 first rounder too much to include in a deal for Patrick Sharpe? What if it was top-8 or top-10 protected?

Does the original trade proposal seem fair? If not, who gets screwed?

Which of the two 2nd line center options would you prefer?

What should they offer to Latendresse (# of years and salary)? Is $3.5 million fair?
First off, great post. Thanks for collecting all of this information in one spot for us to analyze. I was going to do the same, but I appreciate it as I'm sure most of the others here.

Secondly, the cap will be going up by $900,000 I think I heard. 57.7 mil was the number I was hearing.

Mr. Russo over at the Strib wrote an article today about whether we should go year-to-year with him or sign him semi-long term. If we sign him for 3-4 years at 3 mil per would be a solid signing. He doesn't have a lot of assists, but he does have 40 points in about 70 something games. I'm not sure that he warrants that kind of money yet. He has been consistent for part of one year, so I wouldn't be upset if we went just took him to arbitration, but I also would rather not shoot his confidence. He was quoted in the article as saying something along the lines that he thinks he would play better with the security of a longer contract. That being said, I think we sign him 3-4 years at 3-4 mil per. I'll say 3 mil because I'm not sure he warrants more than that.

The next issue is that of Koivu. We need to get him signed long-term. I say we give him something along the lines of 6-7 years at 6 mil per. I think he certainly warrants this kind of money because of how much he means to this team being the captain and the great 2-way player he is. We all love here in Minny and I'm sure he'd love to be here.

The Sharp deal I don't think the Hawks do. I think that we could end up getting him for something like...

get:
Harding
Mid-tier prospect (we don't have many, so I can't really say who)
2nd 2010 (ours or Wash's)

get:
Patrick Sharp

I doubt that this trade would happen either, but we don't know who will be offering what and things like that. I hope that we are able to trade Harding this offseason for a scoring winger type. I doubt that Sharp goes that cheap.

I hope we make a push for Sharp, but we'll see what happens on the winger for Koivu front.

The last question is our need for a #2 center. I think that we will end up signing a veteran. We won't have the money to sign Marleau, so we can pretty much cross him off.

If Selanne retires, then maybe S. Koivu comes here and centers our 2nd line, I'm sure he'd sign for approx. $2 mil. Cullen, I'd think he wants to stay in the East, but I wouldn't mind us signing him either. Most are opposed to Jokinen, but I wouldn't mind seeing us sign him either. He might want to come here, but we can't know. Also, money may be an issue with him.

We'll have to wait and see what CF is able to do.

The last part actually is the draft.

Assuming that we have #8 pick for argument's sake, I assume that Hall, Seguin, Fowler, Gormley, Connolly, Gudbrandson are going to be gone. I can't really project the next one that will be taken in front of us, but let's say this is true. Who do we take? Nino? Tarasenko?

I'm excited for this offseason, it should be an active one. There will be a lot of movement at this year's draft.

I doubt we will be giving up any 1st rounders any time soon, it really handcuffs you, or at least I hope that we don't. I prefer us to sign a proven #2 center so that Latendresse and Havlat will have another nice season, and we will have a pretty good top 6.

With your proposed lineup there, I could see us easily making the #6-7 seed in the West provided that Backstrom plays well and we show up to play the whole season. I can see it happening.

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Old
04-04-2010, 07:52 PM
  #3
Dr Jan Itor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnwildgophers View Post
The Sharp deal I don't think the Hawks do. I think that we could end up getting him for something like...

get:
Harding
Mid-tier prospect (we don't have many, so I can't really say who)
2nd 2010 (ours or Wash's)

get:
Patrick Sharp

I doubt that this trade would happen either, but we don't know who will be offering what and things like that. I hope that we are able to trade Harding this offseason for a scoring winger type. I doubt that Sharp goes that cheap.

I hope we make a push for Sharp, but we'll see what happens on the winger for Koivu front.
I just don't think that we make good trading partners with the Blackhawks straight up. Is Harding that good of an upgrade over Niemi? That's why I think a 3rd team needs to be included: a team that NEEDS a young goaltender for the future and can give Chicago value for us.

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04-04-2010, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I just don't think that we make good trading partners with the Blackhawks straight up. Is Harding that good of an upgrade over Niemi? That's why I think a 3rd team needs to be included: a team that NEEDS a young goaltender for the future and can give Chicago value for us.
Yeah I know. I just don't think that we are going to be able to pry away Sharp, he's a really good player. I think they'd rather get rid of Versteeg and Byfuglien before they would get rid of Sharp.

We may need to target another winger that may be available via trade, is there a site where I can see pending FA's? I haven't been able to find a good via google. We can always consider signing one.

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04-04-2010, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mnwildgophers View Post
Yeah I know. I just don't think that we are going to be able to pry away Sharp, he's a really good player. I think they'd rather get rid of Versteeg and Byfuglien before they would get rid of Sharp.

We may need to target another winger that may be available via trade, is there a site where I can see pending FA's? I haven't been able to find a good via google. We can always consider signing one.
capgeek.com
nhlnumbers.com

Those are the 2 that I use:
Capgeek for salaries
NHLnumbers for FA's

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04-04-2010, 08:08 PM
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Thanks for the compilation, such a nice view on nhlnumbers for upcoming FA's. We have no shot in hell of getting Kovalchuk, but I wonder if we go for a guy like Frolov. I know we were asking around for Plekanec, but I'm sure he'll resign with Montreal.

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04-04-2010, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
B]Questions:[/B]
Is a 2011 first rounder too much to include in a deal for Patrick Sharpe? What if it was top-8 or top-10 protected?

Does the original trade proposal seem fair? If not, who gets screwed?

Which of the two 2nd line center options would you prefer?

What should they offer to Latendresse (# of years and salary)? Is $3.5 million fair?
Like mnwildgophers said, amazing post. Now to the questions:

1. I don't think you can protect picks like in the NBA; however with that said the 2011 first rounder is too much if it is part of the original deal (even with an extension). I like Patrick Sharp but the Wild lose out a little more than they should by giving up on two of their best assets for a good, but not great, player.

2. It's pretty fair and well-thought out for three teams (something which rarely happens in the NHL). If you haven't already posted it in the trade forums, you should do it to see the reaction the three teams give it. My guess is that Chicago fans would want a little more for Sharp and New Jersey fans might wonder why they need another goalie besides Marty/get in the deal, but it's better than 90% of the deals brought up on the board.

3. It really depends on what happens with Bouchard, as it's been a while since anyone has been updated on his status. Until that happens, I'd prepare for the second option.

4. I'd offer Latendresse something along the lines of a one or two-year deal for $2.5 million. $3.5 million is just a little too high for me as in comparison, Sharp received a four-year $3.9 million cap hit after two seasons of 35 and 62 points. There's no rush to get him signed to a long-term deal given he is under club control; however if this year is not a fluke then that could cost more in the future. I'm just a fan of having a little more flexibility unless that person is a cornerstone of the future.

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04-04-2010, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
Like mnwildgophers said, amazing post. Now to the questions:

1. I don't think you can protect picks like in the NBA; however with that said the 2011 first rounder is too much if it is part of the original deal (even with an extension). I like Patrick Sharp but the Wild lose out a little more than they should by giving up on two of their best assets for a good, but not great, player.

2. It's pretty fair and well-thought out for three teams (something which rarely happens in the NHL). If you haven't already posted it in the trade forums, you should do it to see the reaction the three teams give it. My guess is that Chicago fans would want a little more for Sharp and New Jersey fans might wonder why they need another goalie besides Marty/get in the deal, but it's better than 90% of the deals brought up on the board.

3. It really depends on what happens with Bouchard, as it's been a while since anyone has been updated on his status. Until that happens, I'd prepare for the second option.

4. I'd offer Latendresse something along the lines of a one or two-year deal for $2.5 million. $3.5 million is just a little too high for me as in comparison, Sharp received a four-year $3.9 million cap hit after two seasons of 35 and 62 points. There's no rush to get him signed to a long-term deal given he is under club control; however if this year is not a fluke then that could cost more in the future. I'm just a fan of having a little more flexibility unless that person is a cornerstone of the future.
1. I agree with that assessment that Sharp is a good player, but not great, and giving up a 1st might be too much.

2.Like we stated before, we just don't make great trading partners with the Hawks.

3. I just can't see Butch being ready by next year, he's been having trouble skating, I just can't see it.

4. I pretty much said this in a mumbo-jumbo mess. I prefer to have the flexibility like you said, but we also would love to have Gui for cheaper if that's possible.

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04-04-2010, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
Like mnwildgophers said, amazing post. Now to the questions:

1. I don't think you can protect picks like in the NBA; however with that said the 2011 first rounder is too much if it is part of the original deal (even with an extension). I like Patrick Sharp but the Wild lose out a little more than they should by giving up on two of their best assets for a good, but not great, player.

2. It's pretty fair and well-thought out for three teams (something which rarely happens in the NHL). If you haven't already posted it in the trade forums, you should do it to see the reaction the three teams give it. My guess is that Chicago fans would want a little more for Sharp and New Jersey fans might wonder why they need another goalie besides Marty/get in the deal, but it's better than 90% of the deals brought up on the board.

3. It really depends on what happens with Bouchard, as it's been a while since anyone has been updated on his status. Until that happens, I'd prepare for the second option.

4. I'd offer Latendresse something along the lines of a one or two-year deal for $2.5 million. $3.5 million is just a little too high for me as in comparison, Sharp received a four-year $3.9 million cap hit after two seasons of 35 and 62 points. There's no rush to get him signed to a long-term deal given he is under club control; however if this year is not a fluke then that could cost more in the future. I'm just a fan of having a little more flexibility unless that person is a cornerstone of the future.
1. Yeah, I figured you couldn't protect them. I think you should though; maybe an issue for the next CBA. From what I've heard, 2011 isn't the deepest draft. Adding Sharpe & a legit #2 center should have the Wild, in my opinion, picking in the latter half (third) of the rounds. That said, we all know how short we are on legit prospects so every little bit helps.

2. I thought I'd let reasonable, level-headed people pick it apart before it was unveiled to the masses

3. Bouchard is one hell of an expensive wrinkle in the offseason plans

4. 2x$2.5 mil is fair. I don't think that we have to worry about his future production. I really think that he is gonna be a consistent 25-35 goal scorer so I personally wouldn't worry about locking him up for longer.

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04-04-2010, 08:38 PM
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I just don't think we have the prospect pool or enough trade chips to be able to pull off a trade for any sort of scoring winger. It's just going to be too hard I think. Every fanbase tends to overvalue their players, but I'd love to see a legit #2 center between Latendresse and Havlat although I think we would be okay if we didn't have one there. The number of wingers are few and far between that are legit scoring guys.

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04-04-2010, 10:07 PM
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what do you guys do with Sheppard this summer?

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04-04-2010, 10:09 PM
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what do you guys do with Sheppard this summer?
That, my friend, is priority number 16 for GMCF. Either we make him a minimal offer, or another team wants him and offers something, and we all say goodbye to Jimmy.

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04-04-2010, 10:11 PM
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what do you guys do with Sheppard this summer?
Most likely just tender him given he's still cheap and hope he either pans out or waive him.

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04-04-2010, 10:25 PM
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Are you guys interested in taking on a contract like Briere? We could take back something bad aswell. Could be your number 2 C after Koivu

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04-04-2010, 10:28 PM
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Are you guys interested in taking on a contract like Briere? We could take back something bad aswell. Could be your number 2 C after Koivu
I'm not sure if I'm serious but...

Backstrom & Sheppard

for

Briere, JVR, 2010 first rounder

Probably not serious, cuz this team without Backstrom is kinda scary but, what the hell?

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04-04-2010, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I'm not sure if I'm serious but...

Backstrom & Sheppard

for

Briere, JVR, 2010 first rounder

Probably not serious, cuz this team without Backstrom is kinda scary but, what the hell?
Well We dont have a 2010 first, and JVR isn't readily available.

Backstrom

for
Briere and prospect

But that doesnt seem worth it for you guys(though backstrom hasn't had a good year, but he looks awesome tonight vs Vancouver)

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04-04-2010, 10:33 PM
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Are you guys interested in taking on a contract like Briere? We could take back something bad aswell. Could be your number 2 C after Koivu
Wouldn't be my first choice unless the Flyers took a lot of garbage back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I'm not sure if I'm serious but...

Backstrom & Sheppard

for

Briere, JVR, 2010 first rounder

Probably not serious, cuz this team without Backstrom is kinda scary but, what the hell?
Philadelphia is without their first (and possibly their second) for the next couple years. It's one of the things that fans are pissed off about.

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04-04-2010, 10:39 PM
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Wouldn't be my first choice unless the Flyers took a lot of garbage back.



Philadelphia is without their first (and possibly their second) for the next couple years. It's one of the things that fans are pissed off about.
Right, Anaheim has it I think. Bouchard and Shep for Briere? We really don't have any "garbage" contracts, do we?

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04-04-2010, 10:45 PM
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Id trade you backstrom for carter, straight up.

and did you guys consider the buyout we have in place with cap penalty?

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04-04-2010, 10:47 PM
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Just saw Briere's contract. PLEASE GOD NO!!!!

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04-04-2010, 10:49 PM
  #21
HoverCarle*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Just saw Briere's contract. PLEASE GOD NO!!!!
damn, almost worked

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04-04-2010, 11:20 PM
  #22
GopherState
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
damn, almost worked
Like I said, tons of garbage. And in fairness, I don't think there's too many garbage contracts besides Bouchard and possibly Schultz and Backstrom.

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04-05-2010, 12:10 AM
  #23
mnwildgophers
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I'd rather find a winger for Koivu, anything you have wing-wise?

We got a lot of options, so it's nearly impossible to project where we will go via FA, I think we will just fill out depth guys.

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04-05-2010, 01:20 AM
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shleeban
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Originally Posted by mnwildgophers View Post
I'd rather find a winger for Koivu, anything you have wing-wise?

We got a lot of options, so it's nearly impossible to project where we will go via FA, I think we will just fill out depth guys.
They have gagne and giroux, both are probably untouchable

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04-05-2010, 01:33 AM
  #25
thestonedkoala
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What Minnesota should do is send Wellman down to the minors for a few years of seasoning. Keep Almond up here. Sign Sheppard to a league minimum. Drudge around and see if you can pick up a bargain at center as well. You roll into the season with Almond/Sheppard/Brodziak as the 2nd, 3rd and 4th line centers. Koivu at first.

You ship of Kobasew, Brunette and Miettinen at the deadline.

Right now, this team doesn't need to make any major splashes at the deadline or in the offseason until contracts are removed from the organization that need to be.

You also force Backstrom to waiver his NTC and move him ASAP.

Basically get rid of the big contracts so you got a lot more flexibility to work with and to put a stamp on this team.

2-3 years of rebuilding is not going to kill this team no matter what anyone says.

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