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Old
04-04-2010, 11:35 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
That's the stupidest god damn thing. Because he doesn't hit it means he's soft so he's no good. Eric Desjardins wasn't a hitting a machine either and he was probably the second best defenseman this franchise has ever seen behind Mark Howe, another defenseman who wasn't known as a bone crushing physical player.

Just because Carle doesn't hit doesn't mean that he's soft. I'm so sick of this garbage about having to hit because most of the time, when you're taking someone out with a hit, you're taking yourself out of your position. A poke check is just as effective as hammering someone along the boards.
Carleis the softest D man we have had in a long time, and Im not just talking about hits. He is the weakest player on the team, besides Briere, and maybe Leino/Kraijcek (havent seen as much of them)

I know that D men can be effective without hitting, but the fact that Carle lacks good speed, AND size/strength is a horrible combo.

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04-04-2010, 11:37 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
The thing is that next season is a "must-contend" season for us because we've blown this year and are going to have some contract issues after 10-11 (Gagne, Carter, Giroux, Leino all expiring).

So I mean, do I want to go into next season with a guy who's iffy, but ultimately a No.4 or a guy who's just a total wild-card? I'll take the No.4 and hope Parent can step up and play strong defense.
Theres no guarantee he'll even be the same player next season. He was bad for the Sharks. He was bad for the Lightning. And before Pronger came along, he was bad for the Flyers too.
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And Carle can at least learn defensive body positioning (something he really should be better at) and at least he has the NHL's resident expert in the same locker room (Kimmo).
Okay... Carle can learn positioning but Coburn cant learn when to pinch? Might want to elaborate on that one.
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Eh, Carle doesn't make mistakes on the same level of stupidity that Coburn does. Carle will try to force a pass or get too cute or get victimized because he's slow and mediocre positionally.
Stupid's stupid. If your rushing the puck it gets stripped away, you're out of position and the other team gets a juicy scoring chance. If you fire a puck through the slot area and it gets picked off, you're out of position and the other team gets a juicy scoring chance. Carle will make this pass at least once a game.
Quote:
Coburn's mistakes stem from things like not knowing where your teammates are, not taking care of the puck, not taking the body, etc.
Matt Carle
75.05% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 20 PRONGER,CHRIS
7.31% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 44 TIMONEN,KIMMO
7.31% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 5 COBURN,BRAYDON
3.48% EV 3 BARTULIS,OSKARS - 25 CARLE,MATTHEW
2.46% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 2 KRAJICEK,LUKAS
1.76% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 77 PARENT,RYAN
1.48% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 26 SYVRET,DANNY

Braydon Coburn
44.13% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 44 TIMONEN,KIMMO
18.93% EV 3 BARTULIS,OSKARS - 5 COBURN,BRAYDON
11.76% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 77 PARENT,RYAN
11.42% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 20 PRONGER,CHRIS
7.79% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 5 COBURN,BRAYDON
2.31% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 26 SYVRET,DANNY
1.65% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 2 KRAJICEK,LUKAS
1.3% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 55 TOLLEFSEN,OLE-KRISTIAN

Might have something to do with Coburn being paired with a new defensive partner almost every other night.

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Old
04-05-2010, 07:39 AM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
I know that, but Carle is not the cat's meow. I really think Coburn can improve his game, and I hope Parent could stay healthy.

Carle's cap hit could make him the traded one, if we cant move a Briere or hartnell due to NTC
Carle is far from the cat's meow, unfortunately, he's closer to the cat's meow than Coburn right now. I mean, if Coburn had progressed this year, I'd be all for dumping Carle in a heartbeat, but that simply hasn't happened and it's time to wonder whether Coburn will ever fulfill that potential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
Would you say Carle makes more than he's worth?
Yep. I was expecting a better year from him this year.

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Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Theres no guarantee he'll even be the same player next season. He was bad for the Sharks. He was bad for the Lightning. And before Pronger came along, he was bad for the Flyers too.Okay... Carle can learn positioning but Coburn cant learn when to pinch? Might want to elaborate on that one.Stupid's stupid. If your rushing the puck it gets stripped away, you're out of position and the other team gets a juicy scoring chance. If you fire a puck through the slot area and it gets picked off, you're out of position and the other team gets a juicy scoring chance. Carle will make this pass at least once a game.

Matt Carle
75.05% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 20 PRONGER,CHRIS
7.31% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 44 TIMONEN,KIMMO
7.31% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 5 COBURN,BRAYDON
3.48% EV 3 BARTULIS,OSKARS - 25 CARLE,MATTHEW
2.46% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 2 KRAJICEK,LUKAS
1.76% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 77 PARENT,RYAN
1.48% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 26 SYVRET,DANNY

Braydon Coburn
44.13% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 44 TIMONEN,KIMMO
18.93% EV 3 BARTULIS,OSKARS - 5 COBURN,BRAYDON
11.76% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 77 PARENT,RYAN
11.42% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 20 PRONGER,CHRIS
7.79% EV 25 CARLE,MATTHEW - 5 COBURN,BRAYDON
2.31% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 26 SYVRET,DANNY
1.65% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 2 KRAJICEK,LUKAS
1.3% EV 5 COBURN,BRAYDON - 55 TOLLEFSEN,OLE-KRISTIAN

Might have something to do with Coburn being paired with a new defensive partner almost every other night.
Your pairings argument means nothing, Coburn was given every chance to mesh with Kimmo this season (and Kimmo is a fantastic d-man) and simply couldn't do it.

One of the main reasons I thought Carle would be expendable would be that Kimmo-Coburn would work as a pairing and then we could move Parent up with Pronger, but Parent hasn't been healthy and Kimmo-Coburn sucked.

Don't blame coaching/Carle for all of Coburn's defensive partners, he hasn't been able to hack it on the 2nd pairing and we've had a revolving door of No.6 d-men.

I mean, both guys are seriously flawed right now and if this team was aiming to win in 2 or 3 years, I'd take a chance on Coburn. The problem is that this team is aiming to win now and Carle simply brings more to the table until Coburn elevates his defensive game and we've been waiting all year for that to happen.

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Old
04-05-2010, 07:48 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
That's the stupidest god damn thing. Because he doesn't hit it means he's soft so he's no good. Eric Desjardins wasn't a hitting a machine either and he was probably the second best defenseman this franchise has ever seen behind Mark Howe, another defenseman who wasn't known as a bone crushing physical player.

Just because Carle doesn't hit doesn't mean that he's soft. I'm so sick of this garbage about having to hit because most of the time, when you're taking someone out with a hit, you're taking yourself out of your position. A poke check is just as effective as hammering someone along the boards.
I hear what your saying but Carle is softer than butter. Dont know how anyoen can deny that. His poke check sucks to boot.

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Old
04-05-2010, 08:05 AM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer
Ottawa's looking for puck movers. Chance to get rid of Carle for something good?
Carle for Pascal Leclaire + 2nd?

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Old
04-05-2010, 08:23 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Carle for Pascal Leclaire + 2nd?
May as well sign UFA Turco.

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Old
04-05-2010, 09:47 AM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Carle for Pascal Leclaire + 2nd?
no way, Leclaire has shown nothing

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Old
04-05-2010, 10:39 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
no way, Leclaire has shown nothing
IMO, probably the most overrated goalie in the game today.

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Old
04-05-2010, 01:32 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
IMO, probably the most overrated goalie in the game today.
Leclaire has talent, but he still lets in soft goals and is injury prone

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Old
04-05-2010, 02:46 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Alexander Graham Bell

And I think Carle's faults are less correctable (he is slow and weak and soft) His positioning is already decent, whereas Coburn's positioning and decsion making could improve


Carle averages almost 1 hit every 2nd game, even though he logs huge minutes. That's so soft. Coburn averaged 1.4 hit per game, Parent at around .9
parent is the best guy defensively in that group so what does that say?

and i think carle is faster then you give him credit for. he is an offensive d man after all.

also i think coburn is more of a two way player then the other two they are 3 different kinds of players. thats part of what makes him so hard to pair up. hes not good enough defensively to cover for an offensive d or good enough offensively to be paired with a defensive guy past the 3rd pairing.

coburn is a guy id really like to be patient with though padays and patience make for poor bedfellows

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04-05-2010, 02:53 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
and i think carle is faster then you give him credit for. he is an offensive d man after all.
He is easily the slowest skater besides Pronger(And I think Pronger can skate faster forward, just not backwards or laterally) on our defense. Speed has always been his main criticism and is why he can never be a top flight offensive d man, or a true powerplay quarterback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
also i think coburn is more of a two way player then the other two they are 3 different kinds of players. thats part of what makes him so hard to pair up. hes not good enough defensively to cover for an offensive d or good enough offensively to be paired with a defensive guy past the 3rd pairing.

coburn is a guy id really like to be patient with though padays and patience make for poor bedfellows
Yeah I would like to give Coburn some patience as well.

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