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Marc Staal has figured out what Torts wants

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Old
04-05-2010, 11:06 AM
  #26
WhipNash27
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There's no saying what to attribute to Tortorella or not. We don't know what him or Sullivan are teaching these players.

I'm not much of a Torts fan, but some people are downright haters.

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04-05-2010, 11:12 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
He's been great. He got off to a rough start, when he focused too much on leading the rush and trying to gain the offensive zone all by himself. It resulted in a lot of turnovers and goals against. The second half of the season, and particularly since the Olympics, he has been much better at picking his spots.
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Originally Posted by LoFFeN View Post
Staal looked pretty horrid earlier in the season when he tried to lead the rush... He had some blatant turnovers which led directly to goals against.

The strongest part of his game is defense and I think he should focus on that. Obviously it's nice to see him join the rush more often right now since he usually recovers nicely..
QFT.

Early in the year he was giving me headaches. Those turnovers made me rip my hair out. I'm glad he's been "finding his way" back since then... we will need him to continue playing like this down the stretch.

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04-05-2010, 11:30 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by KotsyJr View Post
QFT.

Early in the year he was giving me headaches. Those turnovers made me rip my hair out. I'm glad he's been "finding his way" back since then... we will need him to continue playing like this for the rest of his career.
make no mistake, this guy is going to be a core piece of the rangers for many years to come

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04-05-2010, 11:30 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
the best thing torts can do to help all our young players develop is resign

any success this team has individually or as a group is inspite of torts.

and before anyone says hes won a calder and a stanley, i would remind them that slats has some hardware too.

doesnt mean squat today.
You saying things doesn't render them fact, sorry. You're more than entitled to your opinion, however, so go nuts.

Staal has been on fire recently. I don't think anyone is under the impression that this is going to be his new permanent form, but he's sure picked a great time to heat up. Hopefully he'll take some of this confidence with him in the future and keep his eyes open for offensive opportunities. I have no idea what Torts had to do with this if anything, but he's surely not ruining the guy. He wasn't before this and its only more obvious now.

Kudos to Brooks for getting back to team coverage and not just coach coverage.

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04-05-2010, 11:49 AM
  #30
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Interesting to read "improved" Staal and "improved" Del Zotto threads running side by side this morning. Both accurate. Maybe this young defense thing is going to work out after all.

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04-05-2010, 11:51 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Interesting to read "improved" Staal and "improved" Del Zotto threads running side by side this morning. Both accurate. Maybe this young defense thing is going to work out after all.
I think it will, as long as the organization is committed to dealing with the growing pains. My fear is that they're not really committed to a young defense, rather that they had to ice a young D-corps because they're so financially limited by a few bad contracts.

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04-05-2010, 11:58 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
It isn't an "I told you so!" moment for the Torts fan club. It's an "eat crow" moment for the "Tortorella is ruining Staal" fan club.
How? This article confirms that the coaches method of trying to get Staal to force the offense was the wrong one. I never said he was "ruining" Staal, I said he was forcing development in areas that should be thought of as secondary in his development.

Seems to me that Staal made a conscious decision to let his game progress naturally and let the offense be a by product of it. Maybe I didn't read it carefully enough, but I didn't see a quote from Marc saying the coaches told him to ignore what they said at the start of the year and figure it out.

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04-05-2010, 12:01 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
How? This article confirms that the coaches method of trying to get Staal to force the offense was the wrong one. I never said he was "ruining" Staal, I said he was forcing development in areas that should be thought of as secondary in his development.

Seems to me that Staal made a conscious decision to let his game progress naturally and let the offense be a by product of it. Maybe I didn't read it carefully enough, but I didn't see a quote from Marc saying the coaches told him to ignore what they said at the start of the year and figure it out.
So what you're trying to say is that Tortorella has had no role in this? That Tortorella told Staal to do one thing, and that Staal eventually ignored everything and figured it out for himself? Do you think Tortorella, with his ego, would be fine with this?

Once again, even if Tortorella isn't necessarily the reason behind Staal's success, that doesn't change the fact that he isn't ruining him.

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04-05-2010, 12:03 PM
  #34
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And I don't understand why you took it personally. Where did I single you out as a person that said Tortorella is ruining him? Where did I say "Trxjw needs to eat crow"?

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04-05-2010, 12:19 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
So what you're trying to say is that Tortorella has had no role in this? That Tortorella told Staal to do one thing, and that Staal eventually ignored everything and figured it out for himself? Do you think Tortorella, with his ego, would be fine with this?
What I'm saying is that I have a hard time giving 'credit' to Tortorella for possibly correcting a mistake that he himself created.

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Once again, even if Tortorella isn't necessarily the reason behind Staal's success, that doesn't change the fact that he isn't ruining him.
Never said that he was.

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And I don't understand why you took it personally. Where did I single you out as a person that said Tortorella is ruining him? Where did I say "Trxjw needs to eat crow"?
Why do I need to take it personally, or be addressed directly, in order to respond to it? I think you're reading too much into my response.

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04-05-2010, 12:24 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
How? This article confirms that the coaches method of trying to get Staal to force the offense was the wrong one. I never said he was "ruining" Staal, I said he was forcing development in areas that should be thought of as secondary in his development.

Seems to me that Staal made a conscious decision to let his game progress naturally and let the offense be a by product of it. Maybe I didn't read it carefully enough, but I didn't see a quote from Marc saying the coaches told him to ignore what they said at the start of the year and figure it out.
Raises a good point. I've thought that Tortarelle's was pretty much a one trick pony as far as his coaching style goes but the article illustrates that he has adjusted as the year has gone on. He's still a lousy bench coach and he doesn't distribute playing time well but I'm encouraged when I read something like this. He'll need to be patient with one or two more young defensemen coming next year.

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04-05-2010, 12:32 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
What I'm saying is that I have a hard time giving 'credit' to Tortorella for possibly correcting a mistake that he himself created.



Never said that he was.



Why do I need to take it personally, or be addressed directly, in order to respond to it? I think you're reading too much into my response.
Why? Isn't that what coaches do all the time? Make mistakes(not on purpose obviously) then try to fix them to create the best player/team possible?

He saw Staal obviously couldn't do a full 180 from defense to offense so maybe he said slow it down a bit and try to become more involved but don't overdue it.

Just can't see the coaches saying nothing to him early in the season after he was obviously struggling by trying to do to much and to change his game so much too fast.

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04-05-2010, 12:57 PM
  #38
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Whereas initially I had high hopes for Staal offensively, his amazing defense is just too critical to this team's success.

I would absolutely love to see Staal develop offensively to something like Brent Burns. If he can maintain his invaluable defensive abilities and develop to Burns' level offensively, I say aside from Hank he will be the most important player on the Rangers for at least a decade if he stays here.

If he gets to that level on offense, I'd throw him 6.5-7.5 million a year for the contract after his next.

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Old
04-05-2010, 12:59 PM
  #39
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Torts deserves credit for:

1) Asking Staal for more offense
2) Realizing it couldn't be done
3) Not banging the square peg into the round hole
4) Allowing Staal to develop by focusing on his strengths

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04-05-2010, 01:10 PM
  #40
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Torts deserves some credit for putting it into the thoughts of Staal to be more aggressive offensively...irregardless of the route that he's taken.

Previously, Staal never had any inclination to do anything with the puck. Now he does.

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04-05-2010, 01:40 PM
  #41
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Torts deserves some credit hate him or not

The comment that said the players develop INSPITE of torts is a little far fetched and unbelievable

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04-05-2010, 02:15 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
Why? Isn't that what coaches do all the time? Make mistakes(not on purpose obviously) then try to fix them to create the best player/team possible?

He saw Staal obviously couldn't do a full 180 from defense to offense so maybe he said slow it down a bit and try to become more involved but don't overdue it.

Just can't see the coaches saying nothing to him early in the season after he was obviously struggling by trying to do to much and to change his game so much too fast.
Sure they do, but to me, that was a mistake that could have easily been avoided. You don't force a defensive d-man to incorporate more offense in his game when he's still on a defensive learning curve. I think the goal should have been to let Staal develop into a dominant shut-down blue liner and let any offense he creates be a bonus.

Honestly, Staal was rushing the puck last season as well, he just wasn't generating the numbers. Much of that can be contributed to the even more inept offense we iced last year.

If they had said it to him early on in the season, why did it take so long for the adjustment to be made? It took far too long for this coaching staff to make the necessary adjustments, not just involving Staal, but across the board. They've mishandled quite a few players by forcing them into roles they don't appear comfortable with, or by not using them in the right role at all.

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04-05-2010, 02:24 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
Torts deserves credit for:

1) Asking Staal for more offense
2) Realizing it couldn't be done
3) Not banging the square peg into the round hole
4) Allowing Staal to develop by focusing on his strengths
He's a young player, he SHOULD be forced into TRYING something new (and he should be willing anyway). If it doesn't work out, like it didn't, then go back to what works.

He was asked to try, it didn't really work out, but he did improve a bit so it was well worth it.

Personally I could give a crap if he scores a lot or not, he's a stay at home defenseman, and that's what's important.

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04-05-2010, 02:28 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...PDK5wo4t04hbEL

Brooks credits the Rangers ditching the "safe is death" system for a more conservative system with helping Staal get his game back and at the same time Staal has become more involved joining the rush.
ive been saying that FOR-EVER....anti Torts people say the "safe is death" thing all the frikkin time without every actually paying attention to the way Torts has actually adapted the system after our initial failings.

Torts deserves a lot of credit for adapting to what we have....but im not gonna hold my breath.

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04-05-2010, 02:28 PM
  #45
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If he adds a good 10-15 lbs on to his frame, he will be beastly.

Plus if he develops his offensive game, he will be something special. Im not expecting this to happen in the offseason, but I have a feeling down the road he will (2-3 years).

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04-05-2010, 02:41 PM
  #46
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If Staal can do what he does best plus put up 30-40 points a season he'll be a wonderful player. However, being completely one dimensional is not good, being a shut down Dman who only scores 10 points a year doesn't make you a top player in this league. I'm glad he's scoring more this season, it's good for his development.

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04-05-2010, 04:12 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
If Staal can do what he does best plus put up 30-40 points a season he'll be a wonderful player. However, being completely one dimensional is not good, being a shut down Dman who only scores 10 points a year doesn't make you a top player in this league. I'm glad he's scoring more this season, it's good for his development.
I'd be more concerned about how well he can make make a pass out of the zone then how many goals he can score

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04-05-2010, 04:13 PM
  #48
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I'd be more concerned about how well he can make make a pass out of the zone then how many goals he can score
Staals ability to take a check, and quickly move the puck up to a forward is borderline elite. every game theres like half a dozen plays where a forechecker is coming in hard, and he absorbs a hit and makes a quick little dump pass to a forward or his partner to move the play up the ice.

for a long breakout pass, thats MDZ.

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04-05-2010, 04:19 PM
  #49
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ive been saying that FOR-EVER....anti Torts people say the "safe is death" thing all the frikkin time without every actually paying attention to the way Torts has actually adapted the system after our initial failings.

Torts deserves a lot of credit for adapting to what we have....but im not gonna hold my breath.
I give him credit for finally adapting, but I still question why he thought he was going to magically turn a bunch of scrubs into a team capable of playing run-and-gun hockey.

He's righted a wrong. But the wrong was unnecessary to begin with.

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04-05-2010, 04:19 PM
  #50
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I was really critical of Tort's handling of Staal at the beginning of the season.

I have no shame in saying I was wrong.

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