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Michal Rozsival appreciation thread (2013 STANLEY CUP CHAMPION)

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Old
04-05-2010, 03:40 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I think he'd get a bit less now, as this is two consecutive seasons his offense has declined. However, his contract at the time was reasonable for a UFA.
I think he'd get close to 4.5M this summer if he was an UFA.

Take a look at who's going to be available. Slim pickings.

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04-05-2010, 03:43 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Uh oh... is someone a little sensitive?


No that's not the mark of a well playing defensemen... his play in comparison to the other 5 defensemen on the team. Nothing he does is above average, nothing he does is worth his salary. And until someone on this thread can give me a clear list of reasons why Rosival is worth his 5 million dollar a year salary, or just a list of the positive characteristics of Rosival's play (something that he does better than other defensemen... or just well for that matter), I will not acknowledge that he is a good defenseman, or even decent.
essentially, rozsival plays very well in his own zone

he gains control of the puck down low, fends off multiple forecheckers without turning the puck over, has the poise and puck control necessary to make a controlled outlet or regroup pass, does a decent job of not turning the puck over, takes hits to makes plays, routinely shuts down high level players one on one

other than Staal, no one on our team even comes close to playing as well in the defensive zone

obviouslly he is over paid, but contract aside he is a 2nd pairing dman on almost any team in the NHL

you have the same condition as many other posters here, you only see the glairing mistakes and are oblivious to consistant solid play

not every good play is an obvious jaw-dropping standout move

a good play is mainting possesion despite a hard forecheck and getting the puck out to the wing, a good play is absorbing a hit down low so you can get the puck over to your partner so they can cleanly break out, a good play is being in the right posittion to force an elite player to take the puck wide rather than the middle of the ice

those are things that constatnly go unnoticed around here....yet everyone will notice Gilroy backchecking his nuts off to catch someone that had no buisness being behind him in the first place...thats an example of a good effort, NOT a good play.

Edit: I feel like I should add that while most people will not notice the good plays i mentioned, EVRYONE will notice when those plays are not made, If rozsival gets hit down low and turns it over, everyone is up in arms....but if he sheds a hard forecheck by Ovechkin and passes the puck away cleanly, no one says a thing


Last edited by mullichicken25: 04-05-2010 at 03:49 PM.
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04-05-2010, 04:24 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Whoa here. You're going a bit over board in trying to prove a point. "never touch the play that Dubinsky is". You are making Dubinsky seem like he is Gretzky! Not to say that you are being completely unfair on Lisin's play.

You are a stats guy. So here are some stats for you:

Brandon Dubinsky... this year he averages roughly 19 minutes a game. His role has more or less stayed the same for the purposes of this we'll say Dubinsky averaged 19 minutes a game for the past 2 seasons, on one of the top 2 lines.

2008-2009

13 g, 28 a, 82 games

2009-2010

19 g, 21 a, 65 games

Enver Lisin... this year averages roughly 10 minutes a game. His role throughout the season has varied, playing on almost every line, playing from 45 seconds a game to 13 minutes a game, mainly however on the 3rd or 4th line.

2008-2009 (phoenix)

13 g, 8 a, 48 games

2009-2010

6 g, 8 a, 57 games


As a member of Phoenix, Lisin played a similar role as he did with the Rangers, changing lines never really having a concrete role. However he moved up to the 2nd line and began producing more. He had a role on the power play and more confidence from his team mates and coaches. He played 48 games that season, ever hardly touching the first line, and yet he scored the same amount of goals as dubinsky? He averages 9 minutes less than Dubinsky, yet he has the ability to match Dubinsky's goal total for an entire season playing 34 less games and averaging 9 less minutes those games, playing on far less offensively potent and talented lines for the majority of the season.

That's not apollo ono with a stick. That's someone who is undervalued and misused. If you want to talk about tunnel vision Dubinsky is your prime candidate. I can't remember when there wasn't a game where Dubinsky missed several prime opportunities to pass the puck to a team mate wide open for a good scoring opportunity and instead either passed it to a team mate who was being thoroughly defended or kept the puck for himself and tried to force a shot when there was none to be had.

this is a well reasoned, articulate, and sensible explaination of what happened with lisin this year. nowhere did the poster mention how great lisin was nor did he say lisin played particularly well this year, in fact, he hasnt but really, given the extra toi and pp and linemates dubi has had for the whole season, neither has brandon really.

in fact an argument could be made that no one on this team has produced offensively this year.

i would agree totally with kenjets premise. plug lisin into the same exact line, same mates, same minutes and same pp chances as brandon had and lisin is no worse than dubi and probably better.

lisin got jerked royally this season by torts. in fact, ill say that he had better treatment the prior year by the yotes when atleast he got a regular shift at the end of the season and low and behold. he started to produce.

and before you start to spit and drool all over the place while typing your rebuttals, please note below and atleast acknowledge that even though lisin got screwed by torts, i get the last laugh with that 1st round disaster better known as korpedo.

dude is awful

Lauri Korpikoski 68 4 5 9 -11


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04-05-2010, 04:56 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
As usual, I see a lot of words in your posts, but no valid points.

As far as my list of what he does well, I already stated I wouldn't provide that list for you since you said it yourself, you're unable to give an unbiased opinion about Rozy because you do not like him. That means, no matter what argument I present, you'll shoot it down for your personal reason's.

You criticize Rozy for never, ever blocking shots. Statistically, he's ranked in the 30's amongst dmen in that category.

You criticize Rozsival for taking too many penalties. I provide you some data showing you that he averages less than 1 minor every other game.

You criticize Rozsival for forcing too many turnovers. He has 26 turnovers on the year, which averages out to about 1 turnover every 3 games.

Why don't you explain how you came to your conclusions that ultimately prove to be wrong? How do you criticize Rozsival for not blocking shots when he's ranked in the 30's in the league? Or criticize Rozsival for making too many turnovers, when he only averages 1 every 3 games? The answer for that is simple. It's bolded, and highlighted, actually.

Enough with you. I'm not going to sink any more of my time in a discussion that you can't even keep up with. I feel like I'm arguing the color of the sky with you with all the dumb, unresearched statements you're tossing around.

Your opinion isn't some sort of edict from god. Back up your statements with data and statistics that prove your garbage theory's. Odds are you can't though. The only crutch you have in this discussion, is opinion.

So explain to me why I should value your opinion when you post blatant lies? Because that's what I consider them to be at this point.
This must be the 3rd or 4th time i have asked you to give me a concrete list of positive attributes to Rosival's play and you have not given me one each time. I'm not going to sit here while all you do is turn everything i say to suit you and repeat it.

I don't care if you value my opinion! I'm not here asking you for your approval, this is a forum and i gave my opinion. I don't need to run it past you because... i really could care less what you think. All i have asked you is to give me a list of reasons why you defend his play. You haven't, on any of the occasions i have asked.

Instead of giving me the list i wanted you decided to AGAIN start refuting what i said about him. Why? Stop randomly responding to me and missing the entire point of my posts. If you have anything to add to the argument at hand then as i said before list it out. But it does not seem like you do. You can't name anything that Rosival does exceptionally, you can't name anything that he even does well for that matter.

All you have is a bunch of statistics that show me nothing about how Rosival plays. Hell Marc Staal and Dan Girardi have a better point total than Rosival, however they are not as offensively inclined as Rosival at all... Their shots are not as accurate, as powerful, as well placed. Oh but that stats prove that wrong don't they?

Until you write out a list i will not reply to what you have to say. It is meaningless, or in your words... "worthless". Why? Not because its invalid, but just because anything you say has no value to the argument at hand anymore and therefore i see no purpose in responding to it.

I'll tell you one thing. You're not good at arguing. What you're good at is annoying the other person until they cease responding to you. You repeat what you say, you selectively choose what you will respond to, and most of all you dodge the things you can't defend by attacking what the other poster said.

To answer your questions now:

I can make the statements i make because I don't like Rosival or his style of play. He's one of the most frustrating rangers to watch. He offers no consistency, little help to hank, and little help to his team mates. Instead of taking players under his wing he has done nothing but look out for himself. What should a 5 million dollar defensemen do where there are 2 rookies on the same squad? Usually they tend to help them, instead neither him nor redden helped anyone. Instead both players were a liability to their pairings and brought down the entire level of play of the defense. How do i criticize Rosival for not blocking shots? Just because he's 30th doesnt mean that he's that big of a blocker. I saw the stats, like 40 defensemen or more are all clumped in within 10 or so blocks. Defensemen who average a lot less time than him. Defensemen who have been injured this season. That stat doesn't mean anything. Turnovers? I did not actually find a website that offered me his turnovers, so i can't respond to that. If what you say is true then fine, maybe he doesn't turn it over that much but he certainly has no clue with what to do with a puck when he gets it or is under pressure.

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04-05-2010, 05:19 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I respectfully disagree. First off, even if Lisin pulls off an offensive season equal to Dubinsky's he still doesn't have the same value. He doesnt play defense, he doesnt hit, he is lacking all the extra value that Dubinsky has.

And I dont think too many people are on board with your theory that Dubinsky has poor vision in comparison with Lisin.
Well talking about productivity potential... Lisin, given the same opportunities Dubinsky is given, has the potential to produce more. Productivity is what makes a player the most valuable. Dubinsky should be the guy who does all the hard work so that the guy with the actual talent ends up with an easier job. So if Lisin is a better goal scorer and overall better source of production it is conceivable that he becomes more valuable to a team.

Let's take for example:

Gaborik and Drury. Similarly paid. Same team. Who is more valuable to this team? Take Drury off, you'll get more or less a team in the hunt for the last playoff spot. Take Gaborik off, you'll get a team in the bottom of the league, with little-no goal scoring.

Gaborik... is not physical. While he is sometimes placed on teh penalty kill it is not because of his willingness to go above and beyond in breaking up a play or block a shot but it is because he is fast enough that in a given situation he can get a break away. He rarely throws a hit and he has always had the label of not playing defense. What they said about his as the rangers signed him was that he hated Lemaires style of play because it forced every player to get back and play defense and that it really disrupted his game.

Drury... is physical. He will go above and beyond to break up a play. He will give up his body to block a shot. He has or had a similar fire to Dubinsky earlier on in his career. He is versatile, at least more versatile than Gaborik. However he is nothing compared to what Gaborik is for this team? He is a complementary player at this stage in his career at best. Someone who comes in and puts a team over the top. Instead he's being paid star money for something he can't deliver.

Hows that apply to Lisin and Dubinsky. Well if both players are given the same amount of time, playing with the same players, Lisin has more potential to put up better statistics... more goals more assists, and is a bigger offensive threat. For a team in need of offense Lisin is, or atleast should be, more valuable.

Not saying Dubinsky's play isnt appreciated. Dubinsky isn't afraid to get dirty, to block shots, to hit a player, to stick up for a team mate. He takes a big load of responsibility. He just is not as offensively talented as Lisin.

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04-05-2010, 05:26 PM
  #356
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This team isnt in a position to waste valuable playing time on a **** project like Lisin. he was given an opportunity. Multiple opportunities. During Gaboriks original missed games he played on the first line and stunk up the joint. Officially.

Brendl still probably has the potential to score more in the NHl than Dubi by your logic, But we're not wasting valuable ice time on him either. You should prove youre capable of playing at least in the AHL before you are gift wrapped 82 games of 20 minute nights. Christ, broken record with the Lisin ****-fest.

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04-05-2010, 05:31 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
This team isnt in a position to waste valuable playing time on a **** project like Lisin. he was given an opportunity. Multiple opportunities. During Gaboriks original missed games he played on the first line and stunk up the joint. Officially.

Brendl still probably has the potential to score more in the NHl than Dubi by your logic, But we're not wasting valuable ice time on him either. You should prove youre capable of playing at least in the AHL before you are gift wrapped 82 games of 20 minute nights. Christ, broken record with the Lisin ****-fest.
oh yea he was really given a chance playing 3 minutes with the 4th line for the majority of games he's played.

this was supposed to be his first full season, when he played with gaborik he looked intimidated. not to mention he plays in the biggest spotlight for sports. i'm not in love with lisin, im not saying his play here was good. i'm saying that he wasn't given the shot.

its because of that logic that people like marc savard get traded and then flourish for another team.

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04-05-2010, 05:34 PM
  #358
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Lisin is not Marc Savard. Thats ridiculous. Savard was dealt after a 45 point season. Dubinsky-esque numbers.

If Lisin hits 45 points in a single season over his NHL career I will personally mail you 1000$ in cash. Its not happening.

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04-05-2010, 05:36 PM
  #359
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He hasn't hit 45 points at any level, ever.

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It's just pain.
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04-05-2010, 05:37 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Lisin is not Marc Savard. Thats ridiculous. Savard was dealt after a 45 point season. Dubinsky-esque numbers.

If Lisin hits 45 points in a single season over his NHL career I will personally mail you 1000$ in cash. Its not happening.
Haha, i'm not comparing the 2 players. I'm saying that's what happens when players are not given fair shots.

Savard that season played on the powerplay, played 70 games, and was on a better line and had more time.

I'm saying if we had given Lisin the confidence and proper linemates he would have definitely produced a lot more.

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04-05-2010, 06:02 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
oh yea he was really given a chance playing 3 minutes with the 4th line for the majority of games he's played.

this was supposed to be his first full season, when he played with gaborik he looked intimidated. not to mention he plays in the biggest spotlight for sports. i'm not in love with lisin, im not saying his play here was good. i'm saying that he wasn't given the shot.

its because of that logic that people like marc savard get traded and then flourish for another team.
Lisin played 14 games in October, averaging over 13min a night.
10GP in November, where he averaged about the same amount of ice time.

His icetime dipped down in December. First week or so in Jan too. But from the 9th of Jan, to Feb, he played about 10min a night.

The 5 or so games he played in March, he averaged over 10min a night.

I guess you're just one of those guys who refuses to do a little bit of homework before posting an opinion. You have proven this numerous times already.

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04-05-2010, 06:04 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Lisin played 14 games in October, averaging over 13min a night.
10GP in November, where he averaged about the same amount of ice time.

His icetime dipped down in December. First week or so in Jan too. But from the 9th of Jan, to Feb, he played about 10min a night.

The 5 or so games he played in March, he averaged over 10min a night.

I guess you're just one of those guys who refuses to do a little bit of homework before posting an opinion. You have proven this numerous times already.
I was being sarcastic. In a previous post i did actually give his average playing time this season. Maybe you should respond to the other post rather than neglecting it.

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04-05-2010, 06:15 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Lisin played 14 games in October, averaging over 13min a night.
10GP in November, where he averaged about the same amount of ice time.

His icetime dipped down in December. First week or so in Jan too. But from the 9th of Jan, to Feb, he played about 10min a night.

The 5 or so games he played in March, he averaged over 10min a night.

I guess you're just one of those guys who refuses to do a little bit of homework before posting an opinion. You have proven this numerous times already.
he played with a broken bone in his foot in dec if im not mistaken.

this whole 10 minutes a night thing is a joke. thats waaaaaayyyyy less time than most of the top 6 forwards get and ZERO pp time.

hes an offensive player with offensive skills that dont translate well to a checking role with talentless 4th line hacks.

10 minutes is nothing when it doesnt include pp time and quality minutes.

he did everything the coaching staff asked of him and then some.

the argument is simple.

did lisin get a fair shake to contribute to this team ?

answer, after december he did not.

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04-05-2010, 06:19 PM
  #364
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This must be the 3rd or 4th time i have asked you to give me a concrete list of positive attributes to Rosival's play and you have not given me one each time. I'm not going to sit here while all you do is turn everything i say to suit you and repeat it.
I've given you the same answer over and over. Delve into my posts a little deeper if you still can't identify the answer to your question. This isn't NHL-10 where I can list his rating for every attribute you think is necessary in this discussion. He's an all-around solid dman who has very few voids to his game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I don't care if you value my opinion! I'm not here asking you for your approval, this is a forum and i gave my opinion. I don't need to run it past you because... i really could care less what you think. All i have asked you is to give me a list of reasons why you defend his play. You haven't, on any of the occasions i have asked.
You're kidding me, right? What have we been discussing this whole time if it isn't his play? It's been a series of false statements you have posted, and I just dug up his statistics to prove otherwise. Go back and read our posts again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Instead of giving me the list i wanted you decided to AGAIN start refuting what i said about him. Why? Stop randomly responding to me and missing the entire point of my posts. If you have anything to add to the argument at hand then as i said before list it out. But it does not seem like you do. You can't name anything that Rosival does exceptionally, you can't name anything that he even does well for that matter.
You're doing an awful job reading through my posts if you feel that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
All you have is a bunch of statistics that show me nothing about how Rosival plays. Hell Marc Staal and Dan Girardi have a better point total than Rosival, however they are not as offensively inclined as Rosival at all... Their shots are not as accurate, as powerful, as well placed. Oh but that stats prove that wrong don't they?
I'm usually the guy that doesn't resort to statistics. But I couldn't resist. I knew you had no idea where he was ranked amongst his peers in most of the topics you bashed him in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Until you write out a list i will not reply to what you have to say. It is meaningless, or in your words... "worthless". Why? Not because its invalid, but just because anything you say has no value to the argument at hand anymore and therefore i see no purpose in responding to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I'll tell you one thing. You're not good at arguing. What you're good at is annoying the other person until they cease responding to you. You repeat what you say, you selectively choose what you will respond to, and most of all you dodge the things you can't defend by attacking what the other poster said.
Annoying? You're the one posting an opinion that you declared is biased because you do not like him. You then went out and criticized various aspects of his play, which I properly answered with a quick check in his statistics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
To answer your questions now:

I can make the statements i make because I don't like Rosival or his style of play. He's one of the most frustrating rangers to watch. He offers no consistency, little help to hank, and little help to his team mates. Instead of taking players under his wing he has done nothing but look out for himself. What should a 5 million dollar defensemen do where there are 2 rookies on the same squad? Usually they tend to help them, instead neither him nor redden helped anyone. Instead both players were a liability to their pairings and brought down the entire level of play of the defense. How do i criticize Rosival for not blocking shots? Just because he's 30th doesnt mean that he's that big of a blocker. I saw the stats, like 40 defensemen or more are all clumped in within 10 or so blocks. Defensemen who average a lot less time than him. Defensemen who have been injured this season. That stat doesn't mean anything. Turnovers? I did not actually find a website that offered me his turnovers, so i can't respond to that. If what you say is true then fine, maybe he doesn't turn it over that much but he certainly has no clue with what to do with a puck when he gets it or is under pressure.
I recall you saying he never, ever blocks a shot. How the hell is he ranked 30-something amongst defenders if he never does so? (This is usually where someone says Hey, I was wrong, and moves on)

You bash him for forcing too many turnovers, and ignore the fact that he's one of the most responsible dmen with the puck. Why ignore it? Why not just buck up, and admit your biased opinion mislead you.

I've been proven wrong plenty of times before. If I'm wrong about something, I'll just man up and admit it. The only crutch in your argument, is your opinion. Again, I ask you, why should I value your opinion when you can't provide a fair analysis on a player you openly dislike?

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04-05-2010, 06:21 PM
  #365
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I was being sarcastic. In a previous post i did actually give his average playing time this season. Maybe you should respond to the other post rather than neglecting it.
I didn't even see it. All I saw, was your quote saying he was getting 3min a night with 4th liners.

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04-05-2010, 06:27 PM
  #366
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he played with a broken bone in his foot in dec if im not mistaken.
Yup, he was actually.

First two months of the year though, 13+ min a night isn't bad for a young kid. It's not like he was playing with blair betts, and colton orr or ryan hollweg.

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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
this whole 10 minutes a night thing is a joke. thats waaaaaayyyyy less time than most of the top 6 forwards get and ZERO pp time.
He's NOT top-6 forward though.

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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
hes an offensive player with offensive skills that dont translate well to a checking role with talentless 4th line hacks.
He played a lot with Anisimov, who isn't a 4th line hack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
10 minutes is nothing when it doesnt include pp time and quality minutes.
Most players have to earn that role. What has Lisin done to earn it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
he did everything the coaching staff asked of him and then some.

the argument is simple.

did lisin get a fair shake to contribute to this team ?

answer, after december he did not.
If he did everything the coaching staff asked out of him, he would be playing right now. Lisin had his chance(s), and only proved he's still a long ways before being an everyday NHL player.

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04-05-2010, 06:42 PM
  #367
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STOP...WITH...LISIN...

Seriously, infractions from here on out for OT ****. This thread has ZERO to do with Enver Lisin.

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04-05-2010, 08:24 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I've given you the same answer over and over. Delve into my posts a little deeper if you still can't identify the answer to your question. This isn't NHL-10 where I can list his rating for every attribute you think is necessary in this discussion. He's an all-around solid dman who has very few voids to his game.



You're kidding me, right? What have we been discussing this whole time if it isn't his play? It's been a series of false statements you have posted, and I just dug up his statistics to prove otherwise. Go back and read our posts again.




You're doing an awful job reading through my posts if you feel that way.



I'm usually the guy that doesn't resort to statistics. But I couldn't resist. I knew you had no idea where he was ranked amongst his peers in most of the topics you bashed him in.







Annoying? You're the one posting an opinion that you declared is biased because you do not like him. You then went out and criticized various aspects of his play, which I properly answered with a quick check in his statistics.



I recall you saying he never, ever blocks a shot. How the hell is he ranked 30-something amongst defenders if he never does so? (This is usually where someone says Hey, I was wrong, and moves on)

You bash him for forcing too many turnovers, and ignore the fact that he's one of the most responsible dmen with the puck. Why ignore it? Why not just buck up, and admit your biased opinion mislead you.

I've been proven wrong plenty of times before. If I'm wrong about something, I'll just man up and admit it. The only crutch in your argument, is your opinion. Again, I ask you, why should I value your opinion when you can't provide a fair analysis on a player you openly dislike?
YOU STILL HAVE NOT GIVEN ME A LIST! STOP PICKING AND CHOOSING WHAT YOU WILL RESPOND TO AND GIVE ME A CONCRETE SET OF THINGS THAT ROSIVAL DOES EXCEPTIONALLY!

I feel like im beating a dead horse here.

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04-05-2010, 08:48 PM
  #369
Fitzy
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Rozy is a sound positional defender. While he is not a hitter, he is willing to use his body to get in the way, unlike Gilroy or Redden.

Rozsival is fantastic at working over forwards along the boards, and winning puck battles. This has to be his strongest asset.

When played with an offensive line, Rozsival's great passing is still very apparent when he plays.

Rozsival is great on the penalty kill and blocks lots of shots.

Rozsival is our second best defenseman at logging big time minutes against opponents top lines.



This thread is for those who appreciate Rozsival, not for those who dislike his european heritage or the fact that he doesnt throw giants hits to take himself out of position.

Why some ranger fans seem to not be able to comprehend the benefits of a solid, balanced, positional defender who is good at most everything but not standout in any area is beyond me. More names for my ever growing list of dumbasses.

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04-05-2010, 08:49 PM
  #370
offdacrossbar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
STOP...WITH...LISIN...

Seriously, infractions from here on out for OT ****. This thread has ZERO to do with Enver Lisin.
ok mod. no more lisin talk in the rozy thread.

why though is it ok for you to comment .... "he hasnt hit 45 points at any level, ever" which is a valid comment but a comment none the less, then you demand we shut it down ?

seems like you got your comment in and then asked that there be no further discussion.

wouldnt it have been better to not do exactly what you are telling me i cannot do?

just askin

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04-05-2010, 08:57 PM
  #371
Carlos Ranger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
STOP...WITH...LISIN...

Seriously, infractions from here on out for OT ****. This thread has ZERO to do with Enver Lisin.
Kinda funny, I just had a post deleted in the Zuccarello-Aasen thread trying to tell people to stay on topic with posts about defense in a thread about a forward. Now the opposite is happening in here.

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04-05-2010, 09:05 PM
  #372
offdacrossbar
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Kinda funny, I just had a post deleted in the Zuccarello-Aasen thread trying to tell people to stay on topic with posts about defense in a thread about a forward. Now the opposite is happening in here.
imo, trying to control the direction of the discourse here is sketchy at best.

as long as there are no personal attacks and there is an adherence to the general forum rules, the discussions should be free flowing, vigorous and free from steering.

ive always been uncomfortable when things get personal here and think that attacks like that need to be controlled but i dont agree with the threat to infract as a way of controlling the actual content of the discussions.

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04-05-2010, 09:11 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Rozy is a sound positional defender. While he is not a hitter, he is willing to use his body to get in the way, unlike Gilroy or Redden.

Rozsival is fantastic at working over forwards along the boards, and winning puck battles. This has to be his strongest asset.

When played with an offensive line, Rozsival's great passing is still very apparent when he plays.

Rozsival is great on the penalty kill and blocks lots of shots.

Rozsival is our second best defenseman at logging big time minutes against opponents top lines.



This thread is for those who appreciate Rozsival, not for those who dislike his european heritage or the fact that he doesnt throw giants hits to take himself out of position.

Why some ranger fans seem to not be able to comprehend the benefits of a solid, balanced, positional defender who is good at most everything but not standout in any area is beyond me. More names for my ever growing list of dumbasses.
That's a fantastic answer but you didn't say that he's "exceptional" at anything so I'm sure some people won't get the message.

When Rozy is asked to do too much is when you notice his limitations. If he plays within himself, much like with many other players, he is quite satisfactory.

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04-05-2010, 09:20 PM
  #374
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If you really believe that Rozsival will play an entire season with at least a semblance of consistency, more people would be willing to give him benefit of the doubt.

To say that he has not cost this team because of his slow foot speed is being ridiculous. He stretches and takes penalties because he is slow. He is not getting faster.
If you wish to live with that, and even embrace it going forward, good for you. I do not.

I would see moving Rozsival this summer as an exercise in good management. Let him slow down again on someone else's dime. His big slowdown this season cost the team.
He's been fine the last while, so all the more reason to dump him this off-season.

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04-05-2010, 09:23 PM
  #375
Rust Heisenberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Rozy is a sound positional defender. While he is not a hitter, he is willing to use his body to get in the way, unlike Gilroy or Redden.

Rozsival is fantastic at working over forwards along the boards, and winning puck battles. This has to be his strongest asset.

When played with an offensive line, Rozsival's great passing is still very apparent when he plays.

Rozsival is great on the penalty kill and blocks lots of shots.

Rozsival is our second best defenseman at logging big time minutes against opponents top lines.



This thread is for those who appreciate Rozsival, not for those who dislike his european heritage or the fact that he doesnt throw giants hits to take himself out of position.

Why some ranger fans seem to not be able to comprehend the benefits of a solid, balanced, positional defender who is good at most everything but not standout in any area is beyond me. More names for my ever growing list of dumbasses.
I won't disagree with the first point you made. He is "sound" at that aspect, and while not exceptional not many defensemen are. I would argue that is his best attribute.

Whoa there with the 2nd point. Rosival is easily pushed off the puck, if there is a stick battle on the boards he's usually not the one who frees it or gets it. He's good at jamming the puck with his skate until help arrives or if time needs expiring but that's the extent of it. To say that he's excellent at that is like saying Ryan Callahan's best asset is scoring goals. He does it well and on occasion but it's not something he does consistently.

Let's agree to disagree. While i was being a bit harsh with his passing in previous posts i will not say that his passing goes positively noticed. It's satisfactory at best. Sometimes he passes it 10 feet in front of the intended player, sometimes he passes it 10 feet in back of an intended player, sometimes he'll pass it to a player changing or not even paying attention to the play. To be an effective passer you have to be aware of the play at hand. You can't just go around passing the puck to players not paying attention, or completely miss players, or pass it to players when they are being covered. None of the Rangers have this quality down pat. If i had to rate the Rangers in this respect i'd say 1) Del Zotto 2) Gilroy 3) Redden () 4) Rosival 5) Staal 6) Girardi. Maybe switch 3 and 4, but then again maybe not.

There you guys go again with blocking a lot of shots. I've never seen him commit to block a shot. There is a difference between getting down and blocking with your body and putting your skates togethor while the puck finds you. Sure both ways are "blocking" so i wont take that much away from him in that respect. I'll label his blocking as adequate. Not bad nor good. He's top 40... so what he'd be a lot lower if he didnt play so much. Also he can't clear the crease on the penalty kill nor clear the puck when he gets it. I don't see how that's playing well on a penalty kill.

Rosival logs a lot of time. It's good. It takes pressure off of the younger defensemen. Does he deserve the minutes though? Not entirely. As people say he's a low end 2nd line defenseman or high end 3rd line defenseman. To get good results out of him you should probably decrease his time.

Fitz... Don't turn this into people hating him because of his nationality. No one said that. You are trying to pull the sympathy card out of no where so that your argument seems more appealing to readers just because you said someone elses was just morally incorrect. No one said anything about hating rosival for his nationality. I dont respect that. You want to keep the argument civil then theres no need to make things up.

Rosival is not good at even half the things he does. To be honest, and fair, and unbiased he's average most of the time, disgraceful at worst, and a feel-good at best.

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