HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Any chance we can sign everyone ?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-05-2010, 07:41 PM
  #26
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjbhab View Post
have you ever thought maybe Carey Price and Jaroslav don't want to be here together..

they both want to be a starter..

we can only keep one.

Only 1 wants to stay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzMM9kfU8-Q

E = CH² is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-05-2010, 07:48 PM
  #27
Brisk-Illusion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,159
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjbhab View Post
have you ever thought maybe Carey Price and Jaroslav don't want to be here together..

they both want to be a starter..

we can only keep one.

Only 1 wants to stay.
I doubt that's true, but even if it was, it has nothing to do with our cap situation, which is the topic of this thread.

The bottom line is that we can't save cap space by getting rid of a goalie, so we'll have to find it somewhere else.

Brisk-Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 03:59 AM
  #28
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,474
vCash: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Why sign both goalies, Halak will ask for more than Price this summer, TRADE HALAK! .
So you want to trade our #1 goalie for someone who proved he can't handle being the #1 goalie? Then you want to play him for more games than he can handle?

macavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 04:03 AM
  #29
Tender Rip
No cap on coaching!
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
Now that I know the cap will be going up or at least not going down, I think the only players we'll lose are Metropolit and Bergeron and maybe one more periphery player. We'll keep the goalies (4M) total, Plekanec (5m) Darche, Pyatt, Pouliot, Sergei, Lapierre and hopefully Moore. If one of Darche, Pyatt, Sergei, or Lapierre cry about only making 800K a year, we'll just let em walk.
That seems.... optimistic. Hiller just got 4.5 per, and with Halak having a breakthrough year, everyone knowing how talented Price is, and 2011 being a really weak draft, you don't think anyone will put pressure on prices with offer sheets for goalies that good?

Even assuming you're right with Pleks and the goalies... what do you suggest Pouliot and Sergei should be making? Pens could surely try for Pouliot for instance. 3 years at 1.75 per takes him to a contender, playing with Crosby or Malkin should be productive for his stats, and he can then go the 'get PAID in UFA' route afterwards - or take a two year deal to get the hike faster while keeping him RFA. That kind of money would only necessitate a 2011 2nd rounder from the Pens.

With Kostitsyn for instance - an offer sheet for less than a million... no compensation. Up to 1.5 million... a third rounder (this seasons comp).

I think this will be the year offer sheets become a real factor.

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 04:18 AM
  #30
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 49,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisk-Illusion View Post
I doubt that's true, but even if it was, it has nothing to do with our cap situation, which is the topic of this thread.

The bottom line is that we can't save cap space by getting rid of a goalie, so we'll have to find it somewhere else.
Halak's already gone on record saying play me or trade me, so it stands to reason we can't keep both.

Fish on The Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 04:20 AM
  #31
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,474
vCash: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Halak's already gone on record saying play me or trade me, so it stands to reason we can't keep both.
Your reasonin is wrong because Halak can be #1 and Price has never complained about being the backup. Price is happy and he respects Halak. Price will be a better goalie because that is how you develop, being the #2.

macavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 04:24 AM
  #32
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,474
vCash: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post

I think this will be the year offer sheets become a real factor.
I will bet an avatar for a year that neither Price or Halak will get an offer sheet that we can't afford to match. aka if they get an offer sheet, it will be low and it will be a blessing because we get them signed for 3+ years at that Price.

macavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 04:43 AM
  #33
Tender Rip
No cap on coaching!
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Your reasonin is wrong because Halak can be #1 and Price has never complained about being the backup. Price is happy and he respects Halak. Price will be a better goalie because that is how you develop, being the #2.
It is not my reasoning that Montreal cannot keep both goalies. I'm sure they can if that's the priority. I'm just saying it is mighty optimistic thinking they can do so for 4 million or there about, and when it gets beyond that, which I am certain it will, it makes it that much harder to keep the rest of the RFA's.

With Fish on Sand's quote in mind, the most likely scenario is that one of the goalies is traded, but then whoever comes back is likely rather good and has a salary that needs paying also. Still - most likely this is the better scenario for Montreal... just have to hope for the Habs that they choose the right one to trade.

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 08:42 AM
  #34
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Halak will probably get 3x 2.5-3 million, Price will probably get 1-2x 1.5-2 million, can we really afford that?

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 08:49 AM
  #35
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjbhab View Post
have you ever thought maybe Carey Price and Jaroslav don't want to be here together..

they both want to be a starter..

we can only keep one.

Only 1 wants to stay.
Do you think every back up in the NHL doesn't want to be a starter?

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 09:08 AM
  #36
King Woodballs
MVP! MVP! MVP!
 
King Woodballs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Your Mind
Posts: 32,150
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary320 View Post
or that the HAbs would want Marleau.

Look up over-rated... you'll see Marleau.

Put Joe Thornton aside anyone and they will be high on the point list.
43 goals says high
p.s. joe thornton is so over rated it is laughable.

King Woodballs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 09:14 AM
  #37
Habs4thewin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 151
vCash: 500
If we have a chance to trade Hamrlik, let's do it... I think Spacek will can have a much better year if he plays on the left side.

If we do trade Hamrlik, we can hope to keep both goalies and see if Halak will continue to win games and see if Price can a little bit more lucky.

At the end of next year, we'll have a better idea of what both goalies are made off and more informations to take the better decision for this organisation...

Of course, it's just what I wish, not what's going to happen

Habs4thewin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 09:15 AM
  #38
TinordiandSubban
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Your reasonin is wrong because Halak can be #1 and Price has never complained about being the backup. Price is happy and he respects Halak. Price will be a better goalie because that is how you develop, being the #2.
This.

Keep em both, make Price play better than Halak.

Cause he can.

TinordiandSubban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 09:58 AM
  #39
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,474
vCash: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Halak will probably get 3x 2.5-3 million, Price will probably get 1-2x 1.5-2 million, can we really afford that?
$6m is the standard goalie budget in the NHL. Do the math.

macavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 10:10 AM
  #40
Turboflex*
 
Turboflex*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,152
vCash: 500
It's very do-able guys, and Montreal SHOULD keep both goalies another year. They are both RFA, they have limited options besides arbitration. There is a risk some team will force Montreal's hand with an offer sheet, but these risks are always proven to be more overstated in HFland than in the actual NHL, the only recent case being Boston, which was a much more extreme salary crunch, and didn't even have a formal offer sheet, nor will the Hawks this summer (they'll sell off through trades).

Here is Montreal projected 2010-2011 lineup, with some estimates on raises (a lot of them conservative, 4 million for Halak in arbitration is a lot..Same with 5.5m for Plek & 2m for Price, but they could happen). If Montreal can trim those numbers, they might be able to even keep Hammer over Spacek, although that is debatable if they want to.

Also keep in mind that a lot of NHL analysts are projecting a cap rise of around $800,000. Basically moving out Hammer and letting some of the UFA vets go (Mara, Metro, Darche, MAB) will easily balance the books.

FORWARDS
Scott Gomez — $7,357,142
Mike Cammalleri — $6,000,000
* Tomas Plekanec — $5,500,000
Brian Gionta — $5,000,000
Andrei Kostitsyn — $3,250,000
* Benoit Pouliot — $1,500,000
* Dominic Moore — $1,500,000
Matthieu Darche - $750,000
Travis Moen — $1,500,000
* Sergei Kostitsyn — $900,000
* Tom Pyatt — $850,000
Ryan White ($215,000) $850,000 (or Lapierre...)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov — $5,750,000
Jaroslav Spacek — $3,833,333
Hal Gill — $2,250,000
Josh Gorges — $1,100,000
Ryan O'Byrne — $941,666
P.K. Subban — $875,000

GOALTENDERS
* Jaroslav Halak — $4,000,000
* Carey Price — $2,200,000

BUYOUTS
* LARAQUE BUYOUT — $500,000

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER SIZE 21
SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $56,407,141
BONUSES $215,000
CAP SPACE $607,859

There's no reason for the Habs to be forced to ditch a goalie this summer, they have best young goalie tandem in league. Another year of evaluation would be great, we'll see some more development from Price, hopefully positive, we'll see if Halak is the real deal, or a flash in the pan, and we'll see if either goalie can make a bid for playing a full workload (55+ games).


Last edited by Turboflex*: 04-06-2010 at 10:13 AM. Reason: error
Turboflex* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 10:23 AM
  #41
Em Ancien
Sexy 2nd Rounder
 
Em Ancien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mount Real Life
Posts: 8,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Halak's already gone on record saying play me or trade me, so it stands to reason we can't keep both.
I'm not sure why he'd want to bail if his play dictates the number of games he gets.

It's all in his hands. If he really wants to bail in this situation, I'm not really sure I'd want him around.

Em Ancien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 10:23 AM
  #42
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
43 goals says high
p.s. joe thornton is so over rated it is laughable.
Cheechoo says "hi" back at you.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 10:27 AM
  #43
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
We will likely see a Hamrlik or Spacek dealt with a pick for a lower level prospect or a mid range pick. /sigh

Have to give in order to get a team to take a salary.

Which teams do you guys believe would be interested in Hammer/Space at their current salaries? What teams do you guys believe would be interested in Hammer/Space IF we throw in a pick?

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 10:41 AM
  #44
Darz
Registered User
 
Darz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Where's the ANY key?
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,422
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
We will likely see a Hamrlik or Spacek dealt with a pick for a lower level prospect or a mid range pick. /sigh

Have to give in order to get a team to take a salary.

Which teams do you guys believe would be interested in Hammer/Space at their current salaries? What teams do you guys believe would be interested in Hammer/Space IF we throw in a pick?
IF the habs were looking to move either dman, I honestly believe we wouldn't have to give up anything to move them. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we could get a pick or propect straight up, especially for Hammer who only has one year left on his deal.

__________________
Hey look, it's Duffman; the guy in a costume that creates awareness of Duff!
Darz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 10:43 AM
  #45
Turboflex*
 
Turboflex*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
We will likely see a Hamrlik or Spacek dealt with a pick for a lower level prospect or a mid range pick. /sigh

Have to give in order to get a team to take a salary.

Which teams do you guys believe would be interested in Hammer/Space at their current salaries? What teams do you guys believe would be interested in Hammer/Space IF we throw in a pick?
Both would be easier to move than you think, lots of teams have cap room and are looking for quality veteren D to plug holes for 1-2 years. Carolina for example, and then some budget teams looking to win like NYI, PHX might..

Turboflex* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 10:50 AM
  #46
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
$6m is the standard goalie budget in the NHL. Do the math.
In a nutshell 6M for goalies is not a problem.

But we're already at the cap with Halak/Plekanec due for raises. The guys that are leaving are all making sub 2M, and there's not much leeway to shed salary here since the replacements are going to be making around the same those guys are making.

Basically, the only way to be able to afford Price and Halak if both get raises and end up at 6M total, would be to let something go. Wether it's one or more of hammer, spacek, or simply letting Plekanec walk, we can't just keep the team exactly the same and sign Halak/Price to 6M just because that's what most teams pay for their goaltending.


Last edited by E = CH²: 04-06-2010 at 10:55 AM.
E = CH² is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 10:54 AM
  #47
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Both would be easier to move than you think, lots of teams have cap room and are looking for quality veteren D to plug holes for 1-2 years. Carolina for example, and then some budget teams looking to win like NYI, PHX might..
I agree with this. Spacek and Hammer won't be hard to move at all. If they had 3-4 years left on their deals, that would be another story.

Hammer with only 1 year left is going to be cake to move. I'm sure one team that's not spending to the cap anyway will be looking to plug a hole and would be willing to shell the money.

Spacek might be a little harder because it's 2 years, but he makes less money so not as big of a deal.

Spacek and Hammer are not total scrubs. Hammer is playing really bad since the return, but before that he was huge for us, logging big minutes in Markov's absence. Spacek has picked up his game a lot after the olympic break and has been solid defensively. They're not the best deals, but they have really short term consequences that are perfectly acceptable for some teams to take provided they have the cap room for 1, or 2 years.

E = CH² is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 11:31 AM
  #48
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,618
vCash: 500
It will probably take at least $6 million to sign both goaltenders. If our offers are less than $3 million to either one of them, we risk losing them as an RFA and getting very little in return. Because of that, I think there is a good chance that one of the two will be gone.

The only other logical place to look is at Hammer and Spacek. Because of their ages and the size of their contracts we might not get much (if anything) in return but that is the price we may have to pay to shed some salary.

Trading one goaltender and moving either Hammer or Spacek would give us some breathing room to sign the remaining players and maybe even take on one more significant salary.

It is a bit frustrating because we do have a pretty decent core, but the problem is we are paying a bit too much for that core and it leaves very few options open to the GM.

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 11:54 AM
  #49
JohnnyReb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 588
vCash: 500
So judging by the trade Hamrlik/Spacek/Price/Halak responses in here the answer to the original question of "Any chance we can sign everyone?" is...

... no?

A 6-8th place playoff-bubble team cannot add players in the off-season, but will in fact be forced to deal away players just to keep the team as is?

JohnnyReb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2010, 12:22 PM
  #50
Em Ancien
Sexy 2nd Rounder
 
Em Ancien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mount Real Life
Posts: 8,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
So judging by the trade Hamrlik/Spacek/Price/Halak responses in here the answer to the original question of "Any chance we can sign everyone?" is...

... no?

A 6-8th place playoff-bubble team cannot add players in the off-season, but will in fact be forced to deal away players just to keep the team as is?
But that's a good thing you see. Since our cap situation can be stabilized without too many losses, we'll be pretty good next year because even though we suck on offense, 5-on-5 and at giving up shots, just losing one or 2 good players will allow us to get back into it next year and challenge for a top 4 spot in the East. It's all about the injuries.

()

Em Ancien is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.