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Old
04-06-2010, 04:30 AM
  #176
ChumpyG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
EVERY. SINGLE. YOUNG. STAR. PARTIES.

People are just going to have to get over it.
fixed.

Oh, and then there's Dock Ellis:


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04-06-2010, 04:42 AM
  #177
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Hopefully what he is doing is lighting a fire under thier *****. Gives them something to be pissed off at.

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04-06-2010, 06:51 AM
  #178
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There can be no doubt that these Flyers don't mesh and don't like each other like true teams do. Just watching them on the ice makes that clear.

I doubt it is Richards' fault though, because I doubt that there are even ten guys in that locker room who truly think of him as the leader.

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04-06-2010, 07:01 AM
  #179
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Lappy doesnt see any discord:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...cker_room.html

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04-06-2010, 08:39 AM
  #180
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Quote:
"Spoke with Flyers GM Paul Holmgren this morning. Regarding stories of dressing room discord with his team: ``I think that's total b.s." 7 minutes ago via web"
Although that will probably be buried as the day goes on and Lebrun tweets more.

The fact of the matter is, none of us really have any sort of definitive proof that there's discord in the locker room - it's all just speculation from our beloved Philadelphia media. People in general are hardwired to see patterns, so it's not surprising to see people believing the reasons that Upshall, Lupul, etc were let go from the team was because they partied in the city. Lupul got traded for Pronger and Upshall was going to become a UFA - that's why they were let go. It's not as if Philadelphia is the only city that's got bars and women, guys. I know that by trading them, we made them "someone else's problem", but I'm willing to bet Lupul can do just as well out in California and Phoenix probably isn't too bad either as far as that sort of stuff is concerned, and I haven't heard any stories coming out of those cities as far as the two of them partying it up goes.

That being said, I don't think Richards leaves much on the ice night after night after night, though he certainly needs to be coached on how to deal with the media, that's for damn sure. I read Andre Agassi's "Open" and he greatly details his troubles in dealing with the media as a young man. He goes on to say that nobody ever told him not to bare his fangs to the media, because "snapping, baring your fangs, makes reporters more rabid". Difference is, Agassi was probably 18 or 19 at the time - Richards is 25. But even if someone (i.e. - Pronger) were to give him that sort of advice, I'm not sure he could take it.

Also: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...cker_room.html

Quote:
With just three games remaining, it's a little late to be addressing these "problems" - especially with the team hanging on for its playoff life.

When Peter Laviolette was hired on Dec. 4, he said he would root out any chemistry issues. Laviolette said yesterday he hasn't found any. Truth be told, if the Flyers were in first place in the Atlantic Division, there wouldn't be any "problems" to write about.

"Since I've been here, the players seem to be dialed in as a team," Laviolette said. "I think when you bring new players together, [chemistry] is something that you constantly look at. You don't necessarily get team chemistry overnight.

"Sometimes people just take a dart and throw it down the hall and see if it hits a balloon."

Laviolette said he "didn't agree" with Brooks' underexplained and well-timed report, with the Flyers and Rangers set to clash twice this weekend with the final Eastern Conference playoff berths on the line.
As stated above, this really isn't the sort of thing to be focusing on while the team is literally fighting for its playoff lives.

There's plenty of reasons to point to as far as why the Flyers sit in 8th place in the Eastern Conference right now, and the fact that this whole "locker room discord" thread keeps coming up is really telling. You don't have to look much further than their play on the ice. The Flyers have had an inconsistent season due to consistently inconsistent play on all fronts - goaltending, goal scoring, coaching, etc, etc. You name a problem and it was present at one point or another during the season. I know that us Flyers fans love a scapegoat - Randy Jones, Coburn, etc - but Richards isn't the entire team. One person simply can't be responsible for the team's lack of production on all fronts.

Given all the problems the team has had this season, it might not even be a stretch to say that they've overachieved in some aspects.


Last edited by thomaszwei: 04-06-2010 at 08:44 AM.
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Old
04-06-2010, 08:48 AM
  #181
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"I don't know where [those GMs] sit in the standings or if they are playoff teams or not," Laviolette said. "If they're not, they should probably look at their own teams."
that amused me.

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Old
04-06-2010, 11:50 AM
  #182
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i definately think there is at least a little bit of a divide in the locker room and i think it probably does revolve around some young players who think that they only have to show up when it's convenient for them, and i've seen that for a while. i do think it's something that can be fixed though. whether that means giving the 'C' to someone else, i dont know, but something needs to happen this off season.

and i can honestly say, if they trade Jeff Carter, i won't be watching any Flyers games.\
he's constantly shown that he is one of the only guys on this team capable and willing to effectively step up his game when he knows he needs to.

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Old
04-06-2010, 11:57 AM
  #183
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http://www.flyersgoalscoredby.com/20...-everyone.html

Mike Richards is no Adam Oates or Craig Janney. He's not an incredible set up center who's always finding that open winger and putting the puck right on his tape. But during the previous two seasons 63% of his points have been assists. This year his point total is down significantly while he's only two goals from tying his career high. And to a certain extent he has all of his teammates, the coaching staff, and Paul Holmgren to blame.

At first I thought that maybe all that talk over the summer about getting Richie's 'hard minutes' down had actually come to fruition and his numbers were down just because he was on the ice less. And as it turns out he actually is spending less time on the ice in all situations, but the only significant drop can been seen in his PK minutes. Where as he's lost over a minute of shorthanded time a game he's only lost 22 seconds while even strength and 3 seconds on the powerplay. So even though John Stevens is gone the acquisitions of Blair Betts and Ian Laperriere have been cause for Richards to spend less time sliding around blocking shots.



So it's definitely not because his ice time is down in goal scoring situations (although being short handed was kind of his goal scoring situation). It's because his line mates haven't been scoring. All the goals that Richie should have been a part of can be seen in the team's overall +/-, the standings, and maybe most glaringly in the captain's own +/-, which right now sits at -1 when it was +22 last year and +14 the year before.

So who's he been playing with? According to Dobber Hockey here's the breakdown:

12.45% EV 12 GAGNE,SIMON - 28 GIROUX,CLAUDE - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
12.36% EV 13 CARCILLO,DANIEL - 12 GAGNE,SIMON - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
8.79% EV 28 GIROUX,CLAUDE - 19 HARTNELL,SCOTT - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
3.27% EV 12 GAGNE,SIMON - 36 POWE,DARROLL - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
2.88% EV 12 GAGNE,SIMON - 19 HARTNELL,SCOTT - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
2.72% EV 19 HARTNELL,SCOTT - 27 PYORALA,MIKA - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
2.23% EV 12 GAGNE,SIMON - 27 PYORALA,MIKA - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE

Most of his even strength time on ice this season has been spent with Simon Gagne, who's spent a lot of the year until recently in a slump. And then Daniel Carcillo, who despite what we wish he could be is not a top 6 forward. And then Claude Giroux who definitely passes first and shoots second. And Scott Hartnell who's just had an awful year. And do you remember the beginning of the season when Richards was playing with Pyorala and Powe?

And the whole thing is strange because those '52 goals' the Flyers were losing in Knuble and Lupul? Well they weren't totally lost. The Flyers are 8th in the league right now with 2.87 goals per game where last year they had 3.17 - a difference about 25 goals this season. But those 25 lost seem to have been lost all around Richards, whose 30 assists so far this year are significantly lower than his 50 in 2008-09 and 47 the season before that. It was no secret that the Flyers could have used a scoring forward like Bertuzzi or (Jesus Christ) Mike Knuble, and Richards stats are evidence that the JVR gamble didn't pay off.

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Old
04-06-2010, 12:00 PM
  #184
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and not playing the point on the PP reduces his assists aswell

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04-06-2010, 12:19 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
and not playing the point on the PP reduces his assists aswell
Yea, and Pronger and Kimmo have taken over with those backend points. Last year, Mike had 8-25-33 on the PP. This year, he has 13-18-31, so he's basically on pace (yes, he still has fewer assists) to finish at 33 PP points or so. As that article points out, his ES production has really taken a hit. I really thought all during the year that we would pick up a vet forward (Knuble-type) at some point to play with him, but it just never materialized.

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04-06-2010, 02:04 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
http://www.flyersgoalscoredby.com/20...-everyone.html

Mike Richards is no Adam Oates or Craig Janney. He's not an incredible set up center who's always finding that open winger and putting the puck right on his tape. But during the previous two seasons 63% of his points have been assists. This year his point total is down significantly while he's only two goals from tying his career high. And to a certain extent he has all of his teammates, the coaching staff, and Paul Holmgren to blame.

At first I thought that maybe all that talk over the summer about getting Richie's 'hard minutes' down had actually come to fruition and his numbers were down just because he was on the ice less. And as it turns out he actually is spending less time on the ice in all situations, but the only significant drop can been seen in his PK minutes. Where as he's lost over a minute of shorthanded time a game he's only lost 22 seconds while even strength and 3 seconds on the powerplay. So even though John Stevens is gone the acquisitions of Blair Betts and Ian Laperriere have been cause for Richards to spend less time sliding around blocking shots.



So it's definitely not because his ice time is down in goal scoring situations (although being short handed was kind of his goal scoring situation). It's because his line mates haven't been scoring. All the goals that Richie should have been a part of can be seen in the team's overall +/-, the standings, and maybe most glaringly in the captain's own +/-, which right now sits at -1 when it was +22 last year and +14 the year before.

So who's he been playing with? According to Dobber Hockey here's the breakdown:

12.45% EV 12 GAGNE,SIMON - 28 GIROUX,CLAUDE - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
12.36% EV 13 CARCILLO,DANIEL - 12 GAGNE,SIMON - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
8.79% EV 28 GIROUX,CLAUDE - 19 HARTNELL,SCOTT - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
3.27% EV 12 GAGNE,SIMON - 36 POWE,DARROLL - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
2.88% EV 12 GAGNE,SIMON - 19 HARTNELL,SCOTT - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
2.72% EV 19 HARTNELL,SCOTT - 27 PYORALA,MIKA - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE
2.23% EV 12 GAGNE,SIMON - 27 PYORALA,MIKA - 18 RICHARDS,MIKE

Most of his even strength time on ice this season has been spent with Simon Gagne, who's spent a lot of the year until recently in a slump. And then Daniel Carcillo, who despite what we wish he could be is not a top 6 forward. And then Claude Giroux who definitely passes first and shoots second. And Scott Hartnell who's just had an awful year. And do you remember the beginning of the season when Richards was playing with Pyorala and Powe?

And the whole thing is strange because those '52 goals' the Flyers were losing in Knuble and Lupul? Well they weren't totally lost. The Flyers are 8th in the league right now with 2.87 goals per game where last year they had 3.17 - a difference about 25 goals this season. But those 25 lost seem to have been lost all around Richards, whose 30 assists so far this year are significantly lower than his 50 in 2008-09 and 47 the season before that. It was no secret that the Flyers could have used a scoring forward like Bertuzzi or (Jesus Christ) Mike Knuble, and Richards stats are evidence that the JVR gamble didn't pay off.
Good post comes to weird conclusion. Knuble's exit was a salary cap thing more than a "we have a better, younger, cheaper guy" thing. Sure they hoped JVR and Hartnell could fill Knuble's shoes a bit and that hasn't happened, but I don't think it's fair to phrase it as a failed gamble. JVR's season isn't a failure in my eyes, and I don't think we have seen his best game yet (he's looking great these last couple games on Richards' wing).

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Old
04-06-2010, 02:16 PM
  #187
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not sure if its fair to put any failures of Richards on JVR. He has had production issues this year without JVR on his line.
JVR was on the 3rd line playing with Asham for God sakes and he gets thrust into a top 6 role. I think JVR has palyed well under the circumstances of late. He was unreal against Montreal.

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04-06-2010, 02:23 PM
  #188
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I'm sure there is always 2 guys on every team that don't get along.

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04-06-2010, 02:41 PM
  #189
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OCC Gang?

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04-06-2010, 04:36 PM
  #190
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What I see on the ice doesn't indicate that the team is divided. Why would you pass the puck to a guy you don't like when you have a good shot?

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04-06-2010, 05:43 PM
  #191
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you once had a team with a bunch of guys all similar in age and who had played together in varying circumstances alot in thier careers. at wjc and then with the phantoms and then you add the dark year where we really totally sucked and added yet more guys in that age range. these were guys who grew into the game together and liked each other as well as had had several years to get to know one another. the changeover from the past two seasons has altered that and i think alot of the problem is that the team two years ago had such great chemistry that average chemistry is somehow now seen as bad. if anything a few nights out carousing might be good for this team if the whole team went.

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04-06-2010, 09:34 PM
  #192
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What's the OCC Gang? Is that some kind of North Philadelphia thing?

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04-06-2010, 09:46 PM
  #193
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What's the OCC Gang? Is that some kind of North Philadelphia thing?
Olde City Club. Olde City is the section of Philly some of the team lives in.

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04-06-2010, 11:34 PM
  #194
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Olde City Club. Olde City is the section of Philly some of the team lives in.
Thanks.

Who's involved?

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04-07-2010, 11:28 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by lindrosfan88 View Post
Thanks.

Who's involved?
Upshall, Lupul, Carter, Hartnell, Richards

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04-07-2010, 11:38 AM
  #196
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Richards lives in New Jersey

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04-07-2010, 01:59 PM
  #197
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Olde City Club. Olde City is the section of Philly some of the team lives in.
The Olde City Club Gang? These guys need to work on their naming skills.

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04-07-2010, 02:25 PM
  #198
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Wasn't there another one like Olde City Skyline, or Center City Skyline or something? I remember that's what they called the one line last year.

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04-07-2010, 02:32 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
There can be no doubt that these Flyers don't mesh and don't like each other like true teams do. Just watching them on the ice makes that clear.

I doubt it is Richards' fault though, because I doubt that there are even ten guys in that locker room who truly think of him as the leader.
What? That's total BS. How can anyone tell that from play on the ice? I hate when people read into things from a players expression on the sideline or crap like that.

The 75 A's, the 78 Yanks won the World Series while the players had fist fights in the locker room. Most teams have good chemistry in the locker room and win nothing, There is no way anyone knows what is going on in the locker room besides the players. Even the beat writers don't truly know. They know what the players let them know and even them it is often times BS because they know the writers are just looking for a story.

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04-07-2010, 02:50 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Richards lives in New Jersey
He used to crash at Lupul's when they were partying in the OC. Lupul revealed that interesting fact during his cribs segment a couple years ago.

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