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Iginla Blames Himself for Playoff Predicament

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04-06-2010, 11:09 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
Habs fan here. Camalleri has been amazing here. At least until he hurt his knee, he hasn't been very good in the seven or eight games since coming back. But overall he, along with Gionta, have been the snipers that Montreal hasn't had in ages. He might've been determined to test the market but I often wondered why Calgary didn't try harder to keep him.
Because Sutter had a crush on Jokinen and he was signed this season (we all see the garbage he got for Jokinen)... bad decisions but Sutter took a big risk, threw away a first rounder and he would look even mroe idiotic if he let him go I guess. Hindsight says Cammy>Jokinen

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04-06-2010, 11:09 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
Habs fan here. Camalleri has been amazing here. At least until he hurt his knee, he hasn't been very good in the seven or eight games since coming back. But overall he, along with Gionta, have been the snipers that Montreal hasn't had in ages. He might've been determined to test the market but I often wondered why Calgary didn't try harder to keep him.
Because that money can be better spent on defense. Just like every other ****ing dollar Sutter sees.

Jokinen was clearly right for this team anyway.

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04-06-2010, 11:18 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Canuck fan come in peace --

I like Iginla as a player. Is it possible the Sutter "system" is simply placing too much on the shoulders of a great-but-clearly-aging player?
Okay, so he's 32 and his numbers are way down this year. The last three years have seen him put up 89, 98 and 94 points. So clearly, based on those numbers he's declining, right? But wait, go back one more year and you can see he put up just 67 points in 82 games. Yes, even less than this year despite being 27 years old. That's widely considered to be the 'prime' for most hockey players. But wait there's more! Go back to the year before the lockout, and see that again, just 67 points.

Back to the back years of putting up less than a PPG despite being paid 7M a year and in his prime. So what's the difference between 03-04/05-06 and 06-09? For one, look at the system. 03-04 and 05-06 were tight defensive systems that emphasized winning 2-1 and 1-0. The three seasons following those were almost the complete opposite. A far more open system that often could care less about forwards back checking but had teams that could more often then not, score their way out of trouble. Secondly, look at the players on the team in those years. 03-04 and 05-06 were both characterized one big offensive guy in Iginla, a couple of second liners (Clark, Drury, Langkow, Conroy) and pile of 3rd and 4th line grinders, checkers and role players. It's hilarious when people say the team was built around Iginla in those years. They weren't then and they aren't now. In those those years the team was built around Kipper, and they were again this year. Now if you return to the years between 06 and 09, you see actual offensive players who were allowed to play, well, offensively. Huselius, Tanguay, and Cammelleri were all legitimate 1st liners and allow to play like it (well mostly - Keenan didn't really like Tanguay). In these years, Iginla ripped up the score sheet.

Simply put, all this talk about Iginla declining seems incredibly myopic. Yeah players decline as they age, but how much of Iginla's 'decline' has been due him backing more? Or him playing with the ever useless Jokinen, Craig-on-his-last-legs-Conroy and a still injured Langkow as his centre? And lets not even speak of the countless left wingers they've tried to put up on the first line and have failed miserably. No, he hasn't been this year. But before he's run out of the town for essentially being 'too old', I want to see a GM come in and build something all successful teams must have; balance. A team that is good defensively and good offensively. Something Sutter was never able to accomplish here in Calgary and which is why he needs to be replaced for someone who can. Something which Sutter also realized midway through this season, which by then, was too little too late.

Those saying Iginla equals last years Kipper are right, or will be so if the team's next GM actually brings in some players who complement Iginla's game. Players who can get him the puck or can simply be creative with the puck in the offensive zone like Huselius or Tanguay. Last year under Keenan, the team was horrible defensively. So Darryl brought in the best defensemen on the market in Bouwmeester and a coach who demanded defensive accountability. And Kipper's returned to being one of the best goalies in the league, just like he was in the Darryl's 03-04 and 05-06 ultra defensive teams.

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04-07-2010, 01:11 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Okay, so he's 32 and his numbers are way down this year. The last three years have seen him put up 89, 98 and 94 points. So clearly, based on those numbers he's declining, right? But wait, go back one more year and you can see he put up just 67 points in 82 games. Yes, even less than this year despite being 27 years old. That's widely considered to be the 'prime' for most hockey players. But wait there's more! Go back to the year before the lockout, and see that again, just 67 points.

Back to the back years of putting up less than a PPG despite being paid 7M a year and in his prime. So what's the difference between 03-04/05-06 and 06-09? For one, look at the system. 03-04 and 05-06 were tight defensive systems that emphasized winning 2-1 and 1-0. The three seasons following those were almost the complete opposite. A far more open system that often could care less about forwards back checking but had teams that could more often then not, score their way out of trouble. Secondly, look at the players on the team in those years. 03-04 and 05-06 were both characterized one big offensive guy in Iginla, a couple of second liners (Clark, Drury, Langkow, Conroy) and pile of 3rd and 4th line grinders, checkers and role players. It's hilarious when people say the team was built around Iginla in those years. They weren't then and they aren't now. In those those years the team was built around Kipper, and they were again this year. Now if you return to the years between 06 and 09, you see actual offensive players who were allowed to play, well, offensively. Huselius, Tanguay, and Cammelleri were all legitimate 1st liners and allow to play like it (well mostly - Keenan didn't really like Tanguay). In these years, Iginla ripped up the score sheet.

Simply put, all this talk about Iginla declining seems incredibly myopic. Yeah players decline as they age, but how much of Iginla's 'decline' has been due him backing more? Or him playing with the ever useless Jokinen, Craig-on-his-last-legs-Conroy and a still injured Langkow as his centre? And lets not even speak of the countless left wingers they've tried to put up on the first line and have failed miserably. No, he hasn't been this year. But before he's run out of the town for essentially being 'too old', I want to see a GM come in and build something all successful teams must have; balance. A team that is good defensively and good offensively. Something Sutter was never able to accomplish here in Calgary and which is why he needs to be replaced for someone who can. Something which Sutter also realized midway through this season, which by then, was too little too late.

Those saying Iginla equals last years Kipper are right, or will be so if the team's next GM actually brings in some players who complement Iginla's game. Players who can get him the puck or can simply be creative with the puck in the offensive zone like Huselius or Tanguay. Last year under Keenan, the team was horrible defensively. So Darryl brought in the best defensemen on the market in Bouwmeester and a coach who demanded defensive accountability. And Kipper's returned to being one of the best goalies in the league, just like he was in the Darryl's 03-04 and 05-06 ultra defensive teams.
Good post, and I agree 100%.

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Old
04-07-2010, 09:38 PM
  #30
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Iginla in the media scrum earlier today.

http://www.fan960.com/media.jsp?cont...07_203507_9804

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04-07-2010, 09:52 PM
  #31
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this will light a fire under him

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Old
04-07-2010, 10:29 PM
  #32
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Some more news about Iginla:

Questions Swirl around Flames after fall from contention
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Iginla would fetch young talent on the market, but he has to agree to be traded first. The 32-year-old isn't an advocate of a scorched-earth policy and says he doesn't want out.

"I want to be part of the solution here and I don't think we're that far," Iginla said. "It's tough today. I know there's going to be lots of talk and everything. From my point of view, I want to be here, not just because it's comfortable or it's a nice city or the fans are into it, but also that I think we can win."
From the TSN quiz:
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Question 1: Will Jarome Iginla be back with the Calgary Flames next season?

Bob McKenzie: I will say yes. I think there are a lot of questions as to who would be back with the Flames next year whether it is in the front office or on the ice, but at the end of the day they have to start next season with Jarome Iginla. There are many things that need to be fixed in Calgary and I'm not sure trading him would fix them all.

Ray Ferraro: I'm going to say no because the team has severe cap issues and trading Iginla is the best chance to fix a roster that is constructed poorly.

Craig MacTavish: He'll be back, that would be a bad place to start dumping salary. This is the ultimate irony from my perspective, they have had trouble scoring goals, so they are going to jettison the guy who does it best and has done it the best for nine straight years. He's had nine thirty goal seasons and I can see him in any other uniform.

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04-07-2010, 10:36 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
"I want to be part of the solution here and I don't think we're that far," Iginla said. "It's tough today. I know there's going to be lots of talk and everything. From my point of view, I want to be here, not just because it's comfortable or it's a nice city or the fans are into it, but also that I think we can win."

I was glad to hear that earlier this afternoon from the Captain.

I don't believe any of the speculation of him leaving, it's just the media hounds doing what they do.


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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Craig MacTavish: He'll be back, that would be a bad place to start dumping salary. This is the ultimate irony from my perspective, they have had trouble scoring goals, so they are going to jettison the guy who does it best and has done it the best for nine straight years. He's had nine thirty goal seasons and I can see him in any other uniform.



MacTavish gets it.

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Old
04-07-2010, 11:22 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by StreakingRed View Post
I was glad to hear that earlier this afternoon from the Captain.

I don't believe any of the speculation of him leaving, it's just the media hounds doing what they do.





Yep. It's a pity the rest of the Canadian teams are going to have fairly quiet summers relative to the Flames. Wouldn't have so much pointless speculation about the team then.

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MacTavish gets it.
Of all people. Now, if only everyone else could catch on, things would be so much easier.

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04-07-2010, 11:29 PM
  #35
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The Iginla trade rumors have been entirely fabricated by a mix of the media and fans speculating. Both parties forgot that it makes no sense... Less sense than trading Phaneuf did.

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Old
04-08-2010, 12:13 AM
  #36
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When asked if he could pinpoint what went wrong Ė and why the Flames are where they are, when hopes were so high going into the season, Iginla answered: ďThatís a hard question. I donít want to make excuses. I donít think itís the system. I think we have a good system.
Of course he is going to say that, he is the Captain of this team and he needs to be the guy buying into the system and leading the other guys. When he says something like that you don't really know if he is telling the truth, or if he is trying to build support for "the system."

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04-08-2010, 01:17 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Now if you return to the years between 06 and 09, you see actual offensive players who were allowed to play, well, offensively. Huselius, Tanguay, and Cammelleri were all legitimate 1st liners and allow to play like it (well mostly - Keenan didn't really like Tanguay). In these years, Iginla ripped up the score sheet.
I'd even add Langkow to that, the time he spent with Huselius proved he could score at a near ppg pace plus play a solid two way game. Another reason to believe the Jokinen trade was ridiculous, Langkow was an excellent center to play alongside Cammaleri and Iginla. Why throw away good players, decent picks and the cap space necessary to keep Cammaleri just to throw Langkow with some scrubs?

The defense wasn't as good as it could have been in those three years but the offense was far better than expected. Darryl responded to poor defense by not tweaking the system but throwing it out. He still believes that defense wins championships, except that all teams that have won the cup since the lockout end aren't defense first teams, they are balanced rosters with the ability to control the play at both ends of the ice. They aren't the best at both but they're at least average in both.

Iginla suffered and while he is right to expect better of himself, the coach has to take a larger share of the blame for the offensive problems and Darryl Sutter has to take the majority of the blame for the poor offense this team had. All of these problems can be traced back to decisions made with signings, trades and coaching within the last year.

Personally, I think the fact that Darryl Sutter has no answers for the lack of success on this roster , followed by questionable solutions is a damning indictment of his capacity as a GM. Unlike last year, I won't believe him when he starts talking about what needs to change. He thinks he knows and speaks with conviction then is genuinely surprised when it doesn't work, he's a self subscribing con man, nothing more.

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Old
04-08-2010, 01:26 AM
  #38
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Of course he is going to say that, he is the Captain of this team and he needs to be the guy buying into the system and leading the other guys. When he says something like that you don't really know if he is telling the truth, or if he is trying to build support for "the system."

The same system the players struggled in during the stretch, is the same system they were playing in November when they were winning games and scoring goals. It wasn't the system that was the problem, it was the lack of finish around the net. The scoring opportunities have been there all year, this team just had a hard time capitalizing on them.

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04-08-2010, 04:16 PM
  #39
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I found this tidbit from today's Eric Duhatschek article interesting:

Quote:
The other day, an NHL coach that I know and greatly respect made a casual point about Iginla and the Flames that probably doesn’t get discussed enough. He said that whenever they play Calgary, the game plan always revolves around stopping Iginla. They essentially dare Calgary to beat them other ways, by cheating defensively against Iginla. As everybody knows, in a game where there are 10 position players on the ice in a comparatively narrow 200-by-85 foot arena, if the goal is to minimize the effectiveness of just one of them, it can be easily done. Just make sure to take away his time and space by closing in on him whenever he has the puck, essentially smothering him with a full-court defensive press. This strategy naturally leaves a team vulnerable elsewhere because it opens up the ice for other players and other options, if you happen to be skilled enough to take advantage. But if you’re not, then the result is a whole bunch of 2-1 losses, in which a former 50-goal scorer just cannot find any open ice to perform his magic.

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