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End of the line for Sather?

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Old
04-09-2010, 11:37 AM
  #26
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
and who would you rather have that's available? Bring back Neil Smith? Otherwise there's Schoenfeld and that's about it.
There's a lot of guys. Jeff Gorton for one. And probably many others working as assistant GMs around the league who would be better candidates than Messier.

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04-09-2010, 11:41 AM
  #27
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As many mistakes as Sather has made there are definitely worse GMs than him out there. IT's incredibly shortsighted to think there's no way things could get worse
How many GMs have a worse percentage at even getting into the playoffs, let alone winning a darn thing?

Your response can't be a very long list.

And please, a lot of us are sick of the garbage of he was bad before the lockout and great since. Look how fast Colorado turned their entire franchise around.


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04-09-2010, 11:50 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
and who would you rather have that's available? Bring back Neil Smith? Otherwise there's Schoenfeld and that's about it.
Thats the point. Theres plenty of qualified candidates out there. Management should go into the search without a clearcut guy and actually do the legwork to determine the best candidates.

But no...Mark Messier, hes a familiar name, lets make him the GM.

Its just so stupid, inept, and most of all, LAZY.

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04-09-2010, 11:53 AM
  #29
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I'm hoping for Jeff Gorton....but we'll probably end up with Messier.

God help us

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04-09-2010, 12:00 PM
  #30
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I'm also leery of Messier. He doesn't have experience with this. It has the potential to be a big disaster. Ideally you want a hockey/business guy. Messier is just a hockey guy and not even ready really for big league coaching let alone GM of a team. Got to pay your dues and he hasn't in this respect.

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04-09-2010, 12:04 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
and who would you rather have that's available? Bring back Neil Smith? Otherwise there's Schoenfeld and that's about it.

Jeff Gorton (whos already in the organization)
Jarmo Kekalainen (definitely worth an interview to try and pry him away from the Blues)

There are plenty of others around the league more qualified. Its not my job to find them. (A while back I listed about 25 of them in a thread, almost half have already gotten a job since then) It should be the Rangers job to do that, but they are lazy and seemingly only concerned with giving a former Rangers and a shiny public figure they think the Rangers fans will trust blindly into the darkness. Seems like its working already. I'd take Gorton or Kekalainen over Mess anyday of the week and twice on Sunday and those are just two potentials.


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04-09-2010, 12:10 PM
  #32
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Yep, that's some real experience he has serving under Sather and cherry picking talent for a national team with no salary cap implications.

The Dolan/Edmonton Mafia continues. Same old garbage with a different name attached to it.

I'm really sorry for being so negative, but this has disaster written all over it imo. Instead of going for the smart shrewd Theo Epstein type GM choice, we go for the flashy name because he has "god like" status here in NY.

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04-09-2010, 12:13 PM
  #33
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you guys are ridiculous... cutting up mark messier... if you learned anything from 94... its that messier is a winner .... any fool can put together a team ... in order to be a good gm ... you need to know the game of hockey and you need to be able to notice talent when you see it... messier would be a great gm ... he definitley has many friends in the hockey world and he would make great trades... the problem with sather was his free agent signings... i am positive messier won't make any mistakes like that .... and knowing the type of guy he is ... he will probably keep his home grown players like everyone on this board would admire ... i would give him a chance ... plus... he has accountants and advisors helping him with all the cap situations and other fine details....

MARK "The MOOSE" MESSIER - best ranger all-time ... if he thinks he could do it... give him a chance

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04-09-2010, 12:22 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by dfallone View Post
you guys are ridiculous... cutting up mark messier... if you learned anything from 94... its that messier is a winner .... any fool can put together a team ... in order to be a good gm ... you need to know the game of hockey and you need to be able to notice talent when you see it... messier would be a great gm ... he definitley has many friends in the hockey world and he would make great trades... the problem with sather was his free agent signings... i am positive messier won't make any mistakes like that .... and knowing the type of guy he is ... he will probably keep his home grown players like everyone on this board would admire ... i would give him a chance ... plus... he has accountants and advisors helping him with all the cap situations and other fine details....

MARK "The MOOSE" MESSIER - best ranger all-time ... if he thinks he could do it... give him a chance
Thats what they said about Gretzky coaching.

sure, Messier will succeed as a GM, he just needs 5 seasons to gain the correct experience. The New York Rangers are a perfect spot for that, always been a halfway station - why not change now? This team can definitely afford a rookie GM with an ounce of management experience, after all we've won all these cups lately ... got plenty of time to spare why not.

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04-09-2010, 12:26 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by dfallone View Post
you guys are ridiculous... cutting up mark messier... if you learned anything from 94... its that messier is a winner .... any fool can put together a team ... in order to be a good gm ... you need to know the game of hockey and you need to be able to notice talent when you see it... messier would be a great gm ... he definitley has many friends in the hockey world and he would make great trades... the problem with sather was his free agent signings... i am positive messier won't make any mistakes like that .... and knowing the type of guy he is ... he will probably keep his home grown players like everyone on this board would admire ... i would give him a chance ... plus... he has accountants and advisors helping him with all the cap situations and other fine details....

MARK "The MOOSE" MESSIER - best ranger all-time ... if he thinks he could do it... give him a chance
this is a classic "RAIN-JAAAAA" fan post

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04-09-2010, 12:26 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfallone View Post
you guys are ridiculous... cutting up mark messier... if you learned anything from 94... its that messier is a winner
That's 16 years ago. Are you proposing he start playing again?

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Originally Posted by dfallone View Post
any fool can put together a team
Any fool cannot put together a good team.

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Originally Posted by dfallone View Post
in order to be a good gm ... you need to be able to notice talent when you see it
Something Messier has not shown he has the ability to do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dfallone View Post
messier would be a great gm ... he definitley has many friends in the hockey world and he would make great trades... the problem with sather was his free agent signings... i am positive messier won't make any mistakes like that .... and knowing the type of guy he is ... he will probably keep his home grown players like everyone on this board would admire
Based on anything besides your opinion?


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MARK "The MOOSE" MESSIER - best ranger all-time
No.

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04-09-2010, 12:30 PM
  #37
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I dont doubt any of that for one second.

Of course hell put his all into it. Hes just not the right guy for the job IMO. Hes not GM material in my eyes.
Based on what?

His whole life has been about this game, he has how many Cups? Only THE GREAT ONE has more points in the history of the game?

And he was never gifted sniper scoring machine. He was always I'll work harder than my opponent.

He's not going to have to crunch numbers in NY. He will have a capologist, assistants, scouts...

He just needs to look at the game, and build a team that can compete while instilling a winning attitude for the franchise.

I think it will be very interesting to see what sort of team Messier would build.

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04-09-2010, 12:34 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by dfallone View Post
you guys are ridiculous... cutting up mark messier... if you learned anything from 94... its that messier is a winner .... any fool can put together a team ... in order to be a good gm ... you need to know the game of hockey and you need to be able to notice talent when you see it... messier would be a great gm ... he definitley has many friends in the hockey world and he would make great trades... the problem with sather was his free agent signings... i am positive messier won't make any mistakes like that .... and knowing the type of guy he is ... he will probably keep his home grown players like everyone on this board would admire ... i would give him a chance ... plus... he has accountants and advisors helping him with all the cap situations and other fine details....

MARK "The MOOSE" MESSIER - best ranger all-time ... if he thinks he could do it... give him a chance
was messier a 'winner' during his 2nd stint with the rangers when we missed the playoffs every single year?? the funny thing about leadership, chemistry, 'knowing how to win' and all that other stuff people talk about it ONLY results in actual winning if you have a good team. if you have a crappy team it doesn't matter how much you know to win you are still a crappy team.

and being a great captain on the ice due to the fact that you were also the best player is not the same as being a good gm. lots of times mediocre players make better coaches/gms because they had to use their brains more while the superstars just did things naturally and can't think like a normal player.

now thats not to say that messier won't be a very good gm. he clearly knows the game and what it takes to win, and we all know that he loves the rangers and wants them to win. but that doesn't change the fact that he has no experience in that role and learning at the nhl level isn't easy. most people don't become nhl gms as their first job. if he was the gm of hartford for a few years first i think people will be more comfortable.

but above all i think people are concerned about it because we all know that messier will get the job because it is the 'sexy' pic and it will be a hugely popular pick due to his history with the franchise, not because he was the best candidate...i bet they don't even interview anyone else. if they interviewed a bunch of guys and determined mess was the best for the job that would be different.

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04-09-2010, 12:36 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
His whole life has been about this game, he has how many Cups? Only THE GREAT ONE has more points in the history of the game?
Yep, look how that translated to THE GREAT ONES coaching career?

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04-09-2010, 12:37 PM
  #40
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As much as I would like the Rangers to go out and get a top-of-the-line GM it isnt going to happen. The one good thing with Messier is that we all know the guy cares. He isnt Sather who acts like he is better than everyone and the effort will never be at fault for anything. If they are going to go with someone for the "long-haul", than there are FAR worse choies than Mark Messier.

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04-09-2010, 12:40 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by LamoTheKid View Post
Yep, look how that translated to THE GREAT ONES coaching career?
True, but look around the league. JD is doing pretty well in St. Louis and he was an announcer before joining them. Yzerman is going to be a GM somewhere very soon and he has very little experience. Some guys have paid enough attention over their careers and asked the right questions that they know how things work without having to train for 5-10 years.

I am not saying Messier is going to be the next GM of all time, what I am saying is that there are worse choices and considering who he has surrounding him I think he will do fine in the long-haul.

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04-09-2010, 12:41 PM
  #42
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I actually think Messier would be much better suited to be the coach, and I wouldnt even like that too much.

Fast tracking him to the General Manager's chair is pretty mindboggling.

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04-09-2010, 12:42 PM
  #43
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There's just too many rumors out there surrounding Messier and him pressuring management to move certain players because "they aren't winners" or they don't have the experience or playoff performances. Maybe they are untrue but generally where there's smoke, there is fire.

As of now, we have a GM whose only asset is his trading ability. The proposal is to replace him with a guy who supposedly demanded that several very good and very valuable players be moved for several marginal and declining has-beens. As far as a can remember as a fan, this organization has always been horrible with drafting and free agent signings. I have no reason to believe that Messier will improve those departments since he has no salary cap, negotiation experience or drafting/scouting experience. Based on his past, he will trade young guys for 'proven winners' no matter the age, sign declining talent and draft the way the Rangers have always drafted.

I have no reason to believe something different will happen, and that can only be proven through the appropriate channels of learning and apprenticing. Obvioiusly our biggest weakness as an organization is drafting, my priority would be to address it with a guy who instantly improves that with his experience and staff.

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04-09-2010, 12:43 PM
  #44
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No one can doubt Messier's ability as a player. And he has become a great "face" for the NYR using a rep built in both Edmonton and NYC -- and he makes funny commercials, too.
But that does not necessarily translate into being a good GM or a good coach (ask Wayne about the latter).
It also doesn't mean he won't be good. But he's got to learn the business side of the game (which I assume he's doing) and get his feet wet in terms of building a team (which he's doing). If "any idiot" can do it then what does that say about the general level of intelligence of the GMs in the league right now?
I actually think that Messier knows this and this is why he is doing what's he's doing now. He knows he's got a lot to learn and that the worse thing he could do (for his rep and for the team) is let his ego tell him that any idiot can build a team. If it were so easy, then every team in the league would be a great team...

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04-09-2010, 12:44 PM
  #45
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Based on what?

His whole life has been about this game, he has how many Cups? Only THE GREAT ONE has more points in the history of the game?

And he was never gifted sniper scoring machine. He was always I'll work harder than my opponent.
.


This is exactly what the Rangers brass wants to hear. Its already working. Can't wait until we see the press release and conference for his inception as GM.

OH!! Its the MESSIAH! How dare we question him, hes one of the greats!

Like i said, i dont doubt the guys passion for the game for one second. But his management experience i do. If he's got such a beat on the inner workings of hockey why does he still need mentorship from Sather and his father? The Rangers cant afford to hire someone whos learning on the job. Plain and simple.

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04-09-2010, 12:44 PM
  #46
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As much as I would like the Rangers to go out and get a top-of-the-line GM it isnt going to happen. The one good thing with Messier is that we all know the guy cares. He isnt Sather who acts like he is better than everyone and the effort will never be at fault for anything. If they are going to go with someone for the "long-haul", than there are FAR worse choies than Mark Messier.
What Im pulling for is not a top of the line GM. I want new blood thats going to give us an injection of a "sea-change" into the org.

Someone comparable to Theo Epstein for the Sawx. As much as I hate them, I really have to sit in awe of what Ep has done with that team.

Someone young, someone who has very little ties to the "old-nhl". Someone whos willing to think outside the box.

Who is that? I dont know. But it doesn't have to be a big name GM. It could come from within or possibly an assistant GM/Head of Player development in another org.

It would certainly help us to have a new GM who could bury the current horrible contracts (im sorry but I just don't see Sather doing that).

I realize im being an Idealist, but I want the Edmonton Mafia to be removed from the Rangers. It obviously hasnt worked for the last 20 years (except 1 year).

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04-09-2010, 12:46 PM
  #47
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another side of this is, are you guys prepared to curse the name of one of the all time ranger greats if he gets the GM job and shiits the bed?

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04-09-2010, 12:47 PM
  #48
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True, but look around the league. JD is doing pretty well in St. Louis and he was an announcer before joining them. Yzerman is going to be a GM somewhere very soon and he has very little experience.
I would have more support for Messier if he started the Yzerman route a few years ago. W/ the upcoming IIHF tournament, this is Messier's first taste of management.

Yzerman started in 06 and has played a significant role within both the Red Wings and Team Canada (starting w/ the IIHF tournament, then leading Team Canada). I don't consider that very little experience when comparing him to Messier.

If there is one reason I don't want Mark Messier ANYWHERE near the Rangers, it's Doug Messier. And Mark has already tabbed Doug (along w/ Risebrough and Goulet) as advisors for the IIHF tournament. When Mark starts making hockey decisions outside of his comfort zone, that's when he's ready...not when he's picking head coaches (MacTavish) and his dad based on previous relationships.

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04-09-2010, 12:49 PM
  #49
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another side of this is, are you guys prepared to curse the name of one of the all time ranger greats if he gets the GM job and shiits the bed?
100% yes. I don't care if his number is in the rafters, when you take a job like that with the team, you damn well better be ready for criticism if you mess up.

There will also be plenty of Messier White Knights around to spurt nothing but "DOENT BADEMOUTH OWAH GRAYTEST PLAYAR OF ALL TEIM" and never have anything to back it up with.

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04-09-2010, 12:52 PM
  #50
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This is exactly what the Rangers brass wants to hear. Its already working. Can't wait until we see the press release and conference for his inception as GM.

OH!! Its the MESSIAH! How dare we question him, hes one of the greats!

Like i said, i dont doubt the guys passion for the game for one second. But his management experience i do. If he's got such a beat on the inner workings of hockey why does he still need mentorship from Sather and his father? The Rangers cant afford to hire someone whos learning on the job. Plain and simple.
Agreed. The casual fan will be fawning over the return of the MESSIAH into the management ranks. Fans that have been paying closer attention over the years would love to see a qualified outsider come to this organization and shape it up. The good ol' boys club from Edmonton hasnt been relevant since the 90's. During the 2000's, nearly everyone has failed mightily whether it be as a player/coach/GM/whatever.

I dont understand the point of holding onto nostalgia and hoping we can catch lightning in a bottle again.

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