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Bernier Injured - Back to Vancouver

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Old
04-09-2010, 12:18 PM
  #101
wackywizard
 
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Are you ready for the playoffs? Because its time to go
Must win in the playoffs, boy, you know the reason why.

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Old
04-09-2010, 12:23 PM
  #102
alternate
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
yeah, hansen was great on the 4th line in place of rypien and hordichuk tonight

who needs toughness
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Rome came to play, who else?
lol. I'd suggest you both take a look at the schedule/standings and see what you come up with.

[QUOTE=ahmon;25026002]
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I disagree.

Toughness, physical, hitting whatever you call it is important in the playoffs.

You can't just identify one thing and say its not important.

Being tough ie good at fighting is not much help. But being good at forechecking and hitting is very important.
exactly. And Hansen is a more effective forechecker than Hordichuck and Rypien, at least the way all three have been playing of late. Hansen has also been much more consistent finishing his hits of late.

and I never said toughness and physicallity weren't important in the playoffs; I said it's not worth dressing an inferior hockey player that adds nothing outside of toughness and 1-2 hits per game at the expense of a player that can handle double-digit minutes and contribute in STs or move up the depth chart when needed.

Quote:
- It wears down the opposition.

- It creates turnovers.

- It creates momentum. In the playoffs its all about momentum shifts, and using that to propel you.
and that's why you need to have physical play right through the lineup. if you're arguing that only Hordy, Glass and Rypien will bring this element of play in the postseason (which is what you are in effect arguing), well, I disagree.

Speed on the forecheck creates turnovers, which creates scoring chances, which creates momentum. puck possession wears down the opposition, creates scoring chances, which creates momentum. Big hits are great, but not at the expense of icing an inferior lineup.

Quote:
- Initiating physical play will likely force the other team to react and retaliate. IE. you get on the pp.
and we've still got guys that will do this.

but if you are going to put Hordichuck or Glass out against Lidstrom or Keith to "initiate physical play" the reaction is going to be hands in the air and a face-off at centre.

Quote:
The thing is just because detroit doesn't fight doesn't mean they aren't tough. They hit quite often, and they go to the net like crazy.

Stuart hits hard, kronwall is likely one of the deadliest hitter in the league. Franzen/Holmstrom all go to the net. Even datsyuk hits a lot.

If you watch darren helm, in the playoffs all he did was skate his lungs out, go to the forecheck and try to wear down the opposition.

Its all about winning puck battles.
huh? we're discussing Hansen and Bernier vs Hordy, Glass and Rypien. Stuart and Kromwall aren't even forwards. and ya, no kidding, Franzen, Helm and even Datsyuk over Hansen and Bernier. good call.

but your point is exactly the point I'm making. you don't need guys who can drop the gloves, you need guys with the speed and hockey sense to get in on opponents, and the willingness to sacrifice their bodies finishing their hits. winning puck battles has nothing to do with prowess in fisticuffs.

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So the hordichuks are very much useless in the playoffs. The Ryan Clowes on the other hand are very effective.
again, no **** sherlock. but closest thing we have to a Ryan Clowe is Steve Bernier. but we're actually talking about guys on this team. who helps more in a 7 game playoff series, with the importance of each PK and the risk of 4-5 period games: Hansen or Hordichuck.

everyone agrees Clowe over both, but we're not talking hypotheticals.

Quote:
And i don't get the comment how a bigger team is inferior?
and I don't get how a bigger team is automatically superior, no matter what else a given player brings to the table.

Alberts over Ehrhoff!!1 OMGZ, he'z so much bigger!

In a perfect world, we'd have a 4th line with some 230lb wingers who can skate and intimidate and handle 10-12 minutes without being a liability and contribute more than dropping the gloves and 1-2 hits per game.

but it's not a perfect world, so we're left choosing between Hansen, Hordy or Glass. none of these players are Darren Helm or Ryan Clowe, so I go for the player that brings the most to the table.

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04-09-2010, 01:32 PM
  #103
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[QUOTE=alternate;25030897]lol. I'd suggest you both take a look at the schedule/standings and see what you come up with.

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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post

exactly. And Hansen is a more effective forechecker than Hordichuck and Rypien, at least the way all three have been playing of late. Hansen has also been much more consistent finishing his hits of late.

and I never said toughness and physicallity weren't important in the playoffs; I said it's not worth dressing an inferior hockey player that adds nothing outside of toughness and 1-2 hits per game at the expense of a player that can handle double-digit minutes and contribute in STs or move up the depth chart when needed.



and that's why you need to have physical play right through the lineup. if you're arguing that only Hordy, Glass and Rypien will bring this element of play in the postseason (which is what you are in effect arguing), well, I disagree.

Speed on the forecheck creates turnovers, which creates scoring chances, which creates momentum. puck possession wears down the opposition, creates scoring chances, which creates momentum. Big hits are great, but not at the expense of icing an inferior lineup.



and we've still got guys that will do this.

but if you are going to put Hordichuck or Glass out against Lidstrom or Keith to "initiate physical play" the reaction is going to be hands in the air and a face-off at centre.



huh? we're discussing Hansen and Bernier vs Hordy, Glass and Rypien. Stuart and Kromwall aren't even forwards. and ya, no kidding, Franzen, Helm and even Datsyuk over Hansen and Bernier. good call.

but your point is exactly the point I'm making. you don't need guys who can drop the gloves, you need guys with the speed and hockey sense to get in on opponents, and the willingness to sacrifice their bodies finishing their hits. winning puck battles has nothing to do with prowess in fisticuffs.



again, no **** sherlock. but closest thing we have to a Ryan Clowe is Steve Bernier. but we're actually talking about guys on this team. who helps more in a 7 game playoff series, with the importance of each PK and the risk of 4-5 period games: Hansen or Hordichuck.

everyone agrees Clowe over both, but we're not talking hypotheticals.



and I don't get how a bigger team is automatically superior, no matter what else a given player brings to the table.

Alberts over Ehrhoff!!1 OMGZ, he'z so much bigger!

In a perfect world, we'd have a 4th line with some 230lb wingers who can skate and intimidate and handle 10-12 minutes without being a liability and contribute more than dropping the gloves and 1-2 hits per game.

but it's not a perfect world, so we're left choosing between Hansen, Hordy or Glass. none of these players are Darren Helm or Ryan Clowe, so I go for the player that brings the most to the table.

Good. However, from your last post you made the comment that Gillis is not building a tough team and that its ok.

And i disagree. This team is not build correctly for the playoffs.

Yes, like you said you don't just pick the biggest players.

But physical players are an ingredient you need.

Similiarly, people say defense wins championship. But a team full of sami pahlsson will not win the cup either.

However, need that defensive ingredient as well.

The canucks simply lack that ingredient. If you aren't going to play physical, you better have a very good powerplay. I don't think the canucks have a great powerplay.


You said in a perfect world that we can have a great 4th line.

You are making it sound a lot harder than it is.

How much effort and assets did it take to build a 4th line like eager-fraser-burish?

a few mid round draft picks?

Yet it was freaking effective last year in the playoffs.

Yet the coaching staff somehow believes we can dress a tweener, like pettinger on the 4th line for no reason.

Or our original 4th line center, johnson for that matter, seems like a team guy, great work ethic, but is likely one of the worse 4th line centers on any playoff team.

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Old
04-09-2010, 01:48 PM
  #104
ItsAllPartOfThePlan
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[QUOTE=ahmon;25032146]
Quote:
Originally Posted by alternate View Post
lol. I'd suggest you both take a look at the schedule/standings and see what you come up with.





How much effort and assets did it take to build a 4th line like eager-fraser-burish?

a few mid round draft picks?

Yet it was freaking effective last year in the playoffs.
really? that line as effective against us b/c we responded to their antics. How effective were those guys against Detroit?

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Old
04-09-2010, 02:51 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post

really? that line as effective against us b/c we responded to their antics. How effective were those guys against Detroit?
I thought the role players for Chicago were great against Detroit.

Detroit shut down Chicago's offensive weapons:



Last edited by LostMyGlasses*: 04-09-2010 at 03:10 PM.
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Old
04-09-2010, 03:00 PM
  #106
lush
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post

Haha that's awesome, I never saw that before. Stupid Kane!

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