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End of the line for Sather?

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Old
04-09-2010, 04:22 PM
  #76
haveandare
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Originally Posted by dfallone View Post
i dont think you guys understand what needs to be done to make this team "great"... we already have key pieces in place... marc staal, del zotto, dubinsky, lundqvist, gaborik, callahan, girardi... even prust ... all we need is someone to send redden to the ahl ... trade away roszival ... and sign hamhuis ... we will have extra cap space to sign all our ufas to go along with a better team.... it doesnt take a genious to be a good gm (especially in the big apple... where everyone wants to come)... messier would be good for the role... he bleeds ranger blue
So did Higgins. So do most fans but they're not suited to manage the team. I don't think Redden is the only thing between us and a good playoff run either...Callahan and Dubi are two of my favorite Rangers but they're not the sort of consistently dangerous secondary scoring that this team needs. We need someone aside from Gaborik who is a threat every shift of every game, in fact we need more than one of these players. Until that happens, this team has no shot at greatness. If we let Messier GM, we're shooting ourselves in the foot. Nothing good will come of an unexperienced figure being GM, especially one who is infallible to most of the press.

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04-09-2010, 04:52 PM
  #77
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in a statement made by messier "i would like to be a gm of the nyr one day." .... the key word in that phrase is nyr ... he wants to bring another cup to the big apple ... in the past 60 years only he was able to do that ... why would you deprive him of another chance to do so... ur reasonings are because has never done it before and inexperience .... messier is not a bum on the streets ... he knows the game of hockey and will work to helping us win another cup .... he could probably go to another team and get that gm job ... but he wants to bring one to new york .... hes ok in my books
Seriously? He wants to bring another cup to NY? Well why didn't ya say so!! Sign me up! Clearly nobody else could possibly fit that criteria, right?

The guy is clearly devoted to this organization and it's success. So dedicated in fact, that he left for another franchise.

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04-09-2010, 05:35 PM
  #78
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How long did it take Bobby Clarke to figure it out? A decade? Has Trottier coached since us? Hey Brett Hull, how's the job front? Kevin Lowe anyone?

Scoring goals does not translate into managerial success. Scottie Bowman never made it to the NHL. Brian Burke was an ok player. Lindy Ruff was mediocre. George McPhee had a few ok seasons. These are guys that had to work, struggle and out think everyone to get to their positions. You can even chalk Bobby Clarke in that category, lying to hide his diabeties and overcoming his stature. I would sooner hire Dominic Moore and his Harvard education than hire Messier. Someone like Glenn Healey or Mike Knuble would be better suited for management.

I would be more comfortable with all of this if Messier took the route of Yzerman or MacInnis. Put some years in. Start as a scout. Listen at meetings. Learn. Then graduate to GM or coach.

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04-09-2010, 06:08 PM
  #79
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I hope it's true and Slats is gone this summer. Seems like forever since he's been the GM and it hasn't been a great run. If it is Messier that takes over I'm okay with that. Garth Snow came in a lot quicker after he played and has done a good job with the Isles, I think Mess can do as good as that.

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04-09-2010, 09:02 PM
  #80
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I am also very skeptical about Messier as a GM.
The guy quit school at 16 to be a pro hockey player. The Cap Era NHL is not checkers, it's chess. You have to be thinking 3-4 moves ahead to succeed. If we surround Messier with the right business/cap minds, the right hockey minds, he could do okay. That is, if he's willing to listen to them. If he's a guy who listens to his staff and values their opinions because they are smart, competent hockey people, then good. If he goes in with the "I'm Mark Messier" attitude and that his opinion is automatically right, then he will fall on his face. The fact is, he's Mark Messier. That gets people to answer the phone no matter what he's about to say. You can't create that and you can't teach it. He brings a hell of a resume as a player. Unfortunately, he played until he was damn near 50. He doesn't have enough time left to truly build the right credentials to earn this job. He's not going to be able to be an assistant for years learning the job. I love Mess, but I'd much rather go for the younger, smarter, non-nhl, business school type GM but I'm not the one making the decision.

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04-09-2010, 09:17 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
I am also very skeptical about Messier as a GM.
The guy quit school at 16 to be a pro hockey player. The Cap Era NHL is not checkers, it's chess. You have to be thinking 3-4 moves ahead to succeed. If we surround Messier with the right business/cap minds, the right hockey minds, he could do okay. That is, if he's willing to listen to them. If he's a guy who listens to his staff and values their opinions because they are smart, competent hockey people, then good. If he goes in with the "I'm Mark Messier" attitude and that his opinion is automatically right, then he will fall on his face. The fact is, he's Mark Messier. That gets people to answer the phone no matter what he's about to say. You can't create that and you can't teach it. He brings a hell of a resume as a player. Unfortunately, he played until he was damn near 50. He doesn't have enough time left to truly build the right credentials to earn this job. He's not going to be able to be an assistant for years learning the job. I love Mess, but I'd much rather go for the younger, smarter, non-nhl, business school type GM but I'm not the one making the decision.
That's why the St. Louis model makes so much sense:

-President: Media-savvy spokesman as the 'face' of the organization who can publicly absorb criticism instead of the front office. (John Davidson/Glen Sather)

-GM: Beancounter/MBA-type capable of wrestling with the CBA and asset valuation. (Larry Pleau/?)

-Dir. Player Development: Former pro with a wealth of experience and leadership that can impart their knowledge on the young'ns. (Al MacInnis/Mark Messier)

-Head Scout: Creative, well-connected bird-dog that can identify talent in a snowstorm. (Jarmo Kekelainen/?)

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04-09-2010, 10:34 PM
  #82
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to me messier will be good at anything he does. hes that type of guy. will it work out... who knows but if he is hired it isn't the worst move ever. at this point anybody is better than sather. if someone thinks its a questionable move thats one thing, but to say it will be a disaster is a little bit of an over reaction if you ask me.

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04-09-2010, 11:02 PM
  #83
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I have a bad bad feeling that sather is going to trade for hossa and his contract through 2021 if he remains gm -__-

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04-10-2010, 01:59 PM
  #84
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For those saying you need a business guy in charge at GM, how about having Dolan as President? thats the epitome of a businessman who doesnt give a **** about any sport.

A GM should be a guy like Messier, one of the most respected guys in the game, and legendary among NYers.

The business side of the equation can be done by advisors. I think Messier can do a fine job assembling talent.

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04-10-2010, 02:03 PM
  #85
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If Messier does a **** job at least we can count on him swallowing his pride and stepping down and doing whats best for the team.

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04-10-2010, 08:42 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuy1985 View Post
For those saying you need a business guy in charge at GM, how about having Dolan as President? thats the epitome of a businessman who doesnt give a **** about any sport.

A GM should be a guy like Messier, one of the most respected guys in the game, and legendary among NYers.

The business side of the equation can be done by advisors. I think Messier can do a fine job assembling talent.
I really don't think it's quite the same. Charles Dolan was a genius and an innovator and a self made billionaire. He started HBO and was instrumental in basically creating the cable TV industry. Just think about how vital most people consider their cable tv, and how financially strapped you'd actually have to be to cancel it. Cablevision is the fifth largest Cable company in the country. It's virtually a fool proof business. Now James Dolan, who is the president of our team, went to Suny New Paltz. The best thing he's ever accomplished was finishing first in the big swim from Charles to his mom. It wasn't any knowledge or skills that got him his position. He was born into it. Now we have no choice about the owner, but do we want a silver spoon a GM, too?

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04-11-2010, 01:54 PM
  #87
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I never want to see Messier as GM.

I never want to hear the chant "Fire Messier" at the Garden.

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04-11-2010, 04:52 PM
  #88
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Can he please be fired now?

No playoff revenue for Dolan, he must be pissed.

Yay for mediocrity, 9th place. I feel sick.

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04-12-2010, 04:51 AM
  #89
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Dolan pissed off is like when my mother was pissed off. She would shout and give me a big old smack but I still kept my job as son. Sather will go when he decides.

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04-12-2010, 06:33 AM
  #90
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Mark Messier and Adam Graves were at the game yesterday. Messier has his commitment as Team Canada GM but it hasn't taken him away from his Ranger duties. In fact,Messier has been around the Rangers more recently than anytime this season. Graves is ready to take a bigger role in the organization. Jim Cerny had Graves as a guest on Rangers radio. I sent Cerny an email asking him to inquire if Graves had any aspirations of becoming a GM or AGM in future. Cerny asked him and you could tell Adam wants that role. When JD was hired in St.Louis,he talked to Graves about a role with the Blues. His kids are a little older.

If the plan is Messier as the GM in the future,elevate Messier to a more prominent decision making spot. Promote Graves. Remove Schoenfeld. Graves has more experience than Messier.

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04-12-2010, 06:46 AM
  #91
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it is a perfect time to remove Sather. The Rangers have a very important offseason upcoming. They need to draft well and need to manage their assets well. They can either go deeper in a hole, or build on what may be the maturing of a new core of pretty darn good players for the future. Building will take the brains of someone outside Sather. Of course, sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't, but I take that chance.

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04-12-2010, 08:01 AM
  #92
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Rangerboy, I agree about Graves and think Messier is about to take over as well. What do you guys think about Mike Richter having some kind of role? I know he hasn't been with the organization, but remember a few games ago he was on with Sam and Joe and he said that he and Messier were going to WHC's together. When Joe asked him what kind of work he'd be doing, he kind of didnt want to say.

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04-12-2010, 10:07 AM
  #93
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I want ZERO PART of having Messier/Graves/Richter/Leetch all here. Graves has been in the organization, maybe a promotion. HUGE NO to Messier, I really don't think he has what it takes. Richter maybe in some consultant role, but nothing major. Leetch doesn't appear to want any part of management, anyway.

We need to stop living in the past, get SMART people in here, and BUILD AN ORGANIZATION that moves away from the "New York" mindset. I understand its the big city, the Garden, original six, and all that. But where has that taken us in the past 15 years?

Jeff Gorton or Steve Yzerman please. Messier was god-like on the ice, but this is completely different.

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04-12-2010, 10:10 AM
  #94
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I want ZERO PART of having Messier/Graves/Richter/Leetch all here. Graves has been in the organization, maybe a promotion. HUGE NO to Messier, I really don't think he has what it takes. Richter maybe in some consultant role, but nothing major. Leetch doesn't appear to want any part of management, anyway.

We need to stop living in the past, get SMART people in here, and BUILD AN ORGANIZATION that moves away from the "New York" mindset. I understand its the big city, the Garden, original six, and all that. But where has that taken us in the past 15 years?

Jeff Gorton or Steve Yzerman please. Messier was god-like on the ice, but this is completely different.
Agree on every level.

Making Messier GM is like putting whipped cream on dog ****.

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04-12-2010, 10:12 AM
  #95
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What more needs to happen to prove to people that Sather has the GM job for as long as he wants it?

And when he doesnt want it anymore, he'll keep the President's role and hand off to the GM spot to Messier...a dubious move to say the least.

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04-12-2010, 10:18 AM
  #96
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This is a quote from Ray Ferraro's blog, found here: http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/ray_ferraro/?id=317719

It's talking about Edmonton, and how Souray has demanded a trade. It fits perfectly here.

"In my opinion, it's time to turn the page from the glory days (because that is not where the Oilers are anymore) and give the people today something to sink their teeth into - not something from 20 years ago."

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04-12-2010, 11:53 AM
  #97
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anyone see mike dunham around lately?? i heard he'd be a great GM

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04-12-2010, 11:57 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuy1985 View Post
If Messier does a **** job at least we can count on him swallowing his pride and stepping down and doing whats best for the team.
Based on what?

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04-12-2010, 12:10 PM
  #99
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Based on what?
Because the guy was a money hockey player for us a decade and a half ago, SBOB. And that's all that matters in the front office.

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04-12-2010, 12:13 PM
  #100
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Because the guy was a money hockey player for us a decade and a half ago, SBOB. And that's all that matters in the front office.
And why does it matter? Because keeping him around will aid Dolan in his quest to continue robbing us blind.

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