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Leafs fans thought it was Ballard's fault, but 20 years later - 29th place, no Cups

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Old
04-11-2010, 06:34 PM
  #26
Volcanologist
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The Leafs being worth too much money for their own good didn't stop with Ballard, but that hardly changes anything about his reign of terror over the team.

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04-11-2010, 06:46 PM
  #27
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We're going to be looking at another 4-5 years of this crap. It's just too bad that we traded away our two first rounders this year or else that road would be looking a hell of a lot more tempting now. We were so close to building ourselves into a perennial contender through the draft.

Just think... the Leafs are sitting in a position to draft either Hall or Seguin right now. I'm sorry but Kessel is not worth either of those two.

THIS is why the Leafs are one of the worst run franchises in the entire NHL.

All the tools to be great, just no leaders. Burke also has the tools to be great but his ego is too much for Toronto.

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04-11-2010, 06:49 PM
  #28
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Couldn't it be argued that its easier to get in the playoffs in this ERA?..
No, not even close. The Leafs could get into the playoffs with 49 points in the 80's. They were in the weakest division in NHL history. 16 out of 21 teams made it, and 4 out of 5 in the Norris made it. It was a joke. They could be terrible and still make the playoffs due to Chicago/Detroit/St.Louis/Minnesota also being very bad.

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04-11-2010, 07:12 PM
  #29
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We're going to be looking at another 4-5 years of this crap. It's just too bad that we traded away our two first rounders this year or else that road would be looking a hell of a lot more tempting now. We were so close to building ourselves into a perennial contender through the draft.

Just think... the Leafs are sitting in a position to draft either Hall or Seguin right now. I'm sorry but Kessel is not worth either of those two.

THIS is why the Leafs are one of the worst run franchises in the entire NHL.

All the tools to be great, just no leaders. Burke also has the tools to be great but his ego is too much for Toronto.
I've gotta interject here. There's no way that we know that Hall or Seguin will be as good as Kessel, or better. We could still end up with the best player out of the deal.

Of course I like yourself and many others felt better about the deal when we felt it wouldn't be a lottery pick. Next years pick SHOULDN'T be a lottery pick, but it's supposed to be a very very weak draft. Like, Patrik Stefan #1 weak.

We don't really know what side will come out on top.

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04-11-2010, 07:25 PM
  #30
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ND I know your traditionally a supporter of the OTPP/MLSE but you don't think their doing something 'wrong'? The Leafs are sitting out of the playoffs for the 5th season in a row (a franchise record), the Raptors missed the playoffs last year and are tied for the final playoff spot. The TFC haven't been able to squeeze into the playoff since their inception and their hopes aren't exactly looking bright this year. Their track record is pretty poor, with the exception of the pre-lockout Leafs.



The Globe and Mail is like Chess

The Toronto Star is like Checkers

The Toronto Sun is like Go Fish
I have never said MLSE has not made mistakes. They have been brutal decsions made since the new CBA. But I believe they are great owners who would do anything possible to win the Stanley Cup. To compare h ballard with OTPP or MLSE as a group is asinine.


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04-11-2010, 09:42 PM
  #31
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I have never said MLSE has not made mistakes. They have been brutal decsions made since the new CBA. But I believe they are great owners who would do anything possible to win the Stanley Cup. To compare h ballard with OTPP or MLSE as a group is asinine.
As the saying goes "Money is the root of all Evil" and there is Common ground here between Harold Ballard's love for it and MLSE/OTTP as well.

Ballard hoarded it, kept it to himself and the team suffered for it.

MLSE BOG and OTTP have more money then Brains, they spend it foolishly to try and Buy success rather than Build it slowly the traditional way.. They demand a retooling on the Fly strategy to accelerate the team progress in order to obtain Playoff Home Gate receipts to increase their Wealth and get more MONEY.. Despite being one of the richest Teams the Leafs are now only 1 of 2 teams to not make the Playoffs in a Cap World.. Proving all the money in the World can't buy you success.

One method of saving/cutting costs to increase wealth, the other of spending wildly to attempt increase wealth..

So be it "A penny saved is a penny earned" or "You have to spend money to make money" strategy....Bottom line its still money motivated no matter how you look at it. Just the opposite spectrum to try and obtain more of it is all. Both Ownership groups run/ran the Leafs as a Business first and a Sports team 2nd and both are getting what they deserve poetic justice would say, and its the Fans that have to suffer along the way.


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04-11-2010, 09:58 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
As the saying goes "Money is the root of all Evil" and there is Common ground here between Harold Ballard's love for it and MLSE/OTTP as well.

Ballard hoarded it, kept it to himself and the team suffered for it.

MLSE BOG and OTTP have more money then Brains, they spend it foolishly to try and Buy success rather than Build it slowly the traditional way.. They demand a retooling on the Fly strategy to accelerate the team progress in order to obtain Playoff Home Gate receipts to increase their Wealth and get more MONEY.. Despite being one of the richest Teams the Leafs are now only 1 of 2 teams to not make the Playoffs in a Cap World.. Proving all the money in the World can't buy you success.

One method of saving/cutting costs to increase wealth, the other of spending wildly to attempt increase wealth..

So be it "A penny saved is a penny earned" or "You have to spend money to make money" strategy....Bottom line its still money motivated no matter how you look at it. Just the opposite spectrum to try and obtain more of it is all. Both Ownership groups run/ran the Leafs as a Business first and a Sports team 2nd and both are getting what they deserve poetic justice would say, and its the Fans that have to suffer along the way.
Tomorrow, I was thinking of going out to lunch. Come on Mess, you can do better than that. Ballard made irrational, reactionary moves, while MLSE has been calculated. They made the mistake of trying to fasttrack coming out of the lockout, signing Jason Blake and Eric Lindros, but they certainly have come to this point with a plan, although, as we know, you don't agree with the plan of building a young fast, team that works its' butt off.

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04-12-2010, 08:43 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
As the saying goes "Money is the root of all Evil" and there is Common ground here between Harold Ballard's love for it and MLSE/OTTP as well.

Ballard hoarded it, kept it to himself and the team suffered for it.

MLSE BOG and OTTP have more money then Brains, they spend it foolishly to try and Buy success rather than Build it slowly the traditional way.. They demand a retooling on the Fly strategy to accelerate the team progress in order to obtain Playoff Home Gate receipts to increase their Wealth and get more MONEY.. Despite being one of the richest Teams the Leafs are now only 1 of 2 teams to not make the Playoffs in a Cap World.. Proving all the money in the World can't buy you success.

One method of saving/cutting costs to increase wealth, the other of spending wildly to attempt increase wealth..

So be it "A penny saved is a penny earned" or "You have to spend money to make money" strategy....Bottom line its still money motivated no matter how you look at it. Just the opposite spectrum to try and obtain more of it is all. Both Ownership groups run/ran the Leafs as a Business first and a Sports team 2nd and both are getting what they deserve poetic justice would say, and its the Fans that have to suffer along the way.
Lets agree to disagree.

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04-12-2010, 09:55 AM
  #34
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Lets agree to disagree.
The best thing that could happen for Leaf Nation would be for the Leafs to be sold to a single owner like Jim Balsillie for example. An owner that cares only about winning as a Sports Team no matter the cost.

Since we know MLSE in not going to sell then the next best thing would be to give Balsillie a team in Southern Ontario and give direct competition to MLSE..

It would make MLSE change the way they do business, if the other Toronto Area based team was built from the ground up and successful.

PS. Harold Ballard ran long time Captain Darryl Sittler out of town, and MLSE Peddie, Tanenbaum and Company did the very same thing to Mats Sundin in this Era.

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04-12-2010, 10:17 AM
  #35
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I think too many cheifs at the top of this corporate structure. I don't think the OTTP is the problem as much as the structure that is there for MLSE. I mean they spend close to the cap and probably spend millions upon millions in scouting and support staff. I do not agree with the direction they are going but I guess we have to give them a couple of more years to see if they make it happen. I think having one owner would be nice but I don't know if the NHL would allow Balsille to buy the Leafs and I say that mildly.

Toronto's failures for the last five years or so stem directly from lack of proper direction of the management at the time. Picking a slow big team when the NHL was headed for a more open type of hockey. Trading away good assets for bad goalies and having to pay for them still. They tried to cover one mistake with two others. I think that was not more evident then when he signed Blake. There was a point there where free agents wanted to come to TO. After a few years of seeing that mess they changed their options. I think Pat Quinn made some bad moves but he was trying to win a cup. It's not his fault that Nolan blew his knee and Gilmour as well. They lost a lot of respect when he was let go. He was still old school and respected in the boys club. Quinn should have stayed, he had a tremendous record as a coach with the Leafs and maybe his personality was too big for some, they should have found someone that could have dealt with him and use his experience.

This mess is still all from JFJ and his stupid no trade clauses. I thought those were given to players that may take a discount in salary to have some stability. McCabe and Tucker were very well paid in my opinion-too well paid for a NTC. He traded away youth and assets for unproven assets and assets that their original teams did not want. That should raise a flag right there. He was here for a short time and handcuffed the franchise for almost a decade.

If we can blame ownership for one thing then that is hiring the wrong person for the job. They made that same mistake with the Raptors. I'm still skeptical with Burke but I will give him a couple of more years. The one thing I do know. The next man that is the architect of a stanley cup winner will be able to punch there ticket to the hall of fame immediately. Everyone knows, it will be a monumental task to erase almost fifty years of frustration.

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04-12-2010, 10:48 AM
  #36
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The best thing that could happen for Leaf Nation would be for the Leafs to be sold to a single owner like Jim Balsillie for example. An owner that cares only about winning as a Sports Team no matter the cost.

Since we know MLSE in not going to sell then the next best thing would be to give Balsillie a team in Southern Ontario and give direct competition to MLSE..

It would make MLSE change the way they do business, if the other Toronto Area based team was built from the ground up and successful.

PS. Harold Ballard ran long time Captain Darryl Sittler out of town, and MLSE Peddie, Tanenbaum and Company did the very same thing to Mats Sundin in this Era.
Mess what makes you think Jim Balsillie would make a great owner???

Not to hi-jack this thread but we could go swap names of teams with single ownership till the cows come home amd prove nothing. There are good ones and very bad ones. ballard and to a degree Stavro were bad. You know," if you are not going to learn from the mistakes of history you are doomed to repeat them"

I cannot believe you think turning ownersip over to an un-named single owner would be a good thing!!! Also re Sundin, are you doing a 180 on him, MLSE ran him out of town, I thought that was your man Fletcher and I thought you supported that?

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04-12-2010, 12:23 PM
  #37
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The best thing that could happen for Leaf Nation would be for the Leafs to be sold to a single owner like Jim Balsillie for example. An owner that cares only about winning as a Sports Team no matter the cost.
.
This is a joke right? Do you honestly think Jim B is the type of guy to sit through a 5 year tank like rebuild? Or is he gonna be the guy to trade an entire draft for one player? Or will he trade 6 1st rounders and 100 Blackberries for Eric Lindros. Bassillie would be (speculation on my part) exactly the owner you would go on and on about having done everything wrong. Do you think Bassilie would sit in a box and leave the GM and the team to do their job, or will he be questioning every move, and want to approve every move.

Be careful what you wish for Mess, you just might get it!

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04-12-2010, 12:40 PM
  #38
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This is a joke right? Do you honestly think Jim B is the type of guy to sit through a 5 year tank like rebuild? Or is he gonna be the guy to trade an entire draft for one player? Or will he trade 6 1st rounders and 100 Blackberries for Eric Lindros. Bassillie would be (speculation on my part) exactly the owner you would go on and on about having done everything wrong. Do you think Bassilie would sit in a box and leave the GM and the team to do their job, or will he be questioning every move, and want to approve every move.

Be careful what you wish for Mess, you just might get it!
Balsillie also showed his true colours by 1) getting taxpayers to re-do Copps for a free rink, 2) refusing to pay Buffalo and Toronto territorial fees and 3) doing absolutely everything the wrong way THREE TIMES
(with Pittsburgh, with Nashville and with Phoenix) to join a 100 year old business.

Heck he wanted MacLean as an advisor !!! Balsillie would be h ballard the 2nd, a complete circus !!!


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04-12-2010, 12:43 PM
  #39
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Balsillie also shoed his true colours by 1) getting taxpayers to re-do Copps for a free rink, 2) refusing to pay Buffalo and Toronto territorial fees and 3) doing absolutely everything the wrong way THREE TIMES(with Pittsburgh, with Nashville and with Phoenix) to join a 100 year old business.

Heck he wanted MacLean as an advisor !!! Balsillie would be h ballard the 2nd, a complete circus !!!
Yup, but what a model owner he'd be. All he wants is to win, no matter what the cost! That dude would be caught with tampering charges and salary infractions to the point we'd lose all our draft picks.

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04-12-2010, 03:14 PM
  #40
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Let's give Jim B some slack. We don't know what type of owner he would be because he never has been one. The guy is obviously very smart in regards to business, I mean he has built an empire. Who cares what Gary Bettman has said about the guy-who here thinks Gary Bettman has done a good job with the league?

Let's not talk about the money he got Hamilton to spend for the rink when city of Glendale will issue a new tax to make Reinsdorf happy. Fact is, if someone is going to give you something you take it. It business.

Now get off of Jim B and talk about the state of this franchise and get the house in order before we start being critical of everyone that has been, is or wants to be an owner.

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04-12-2010, 07:53 PM
  #41
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Well, we made 4 Conference Finals the first 12 years that Ballard didn't own the team. How did we do when he owned them? Sure it's easy to count cups but we had some very strong teams.

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04-12-2010, 07:55 PM
  #42
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Well, we made 4 Conference Finals the first 12 years that Ballard didn't own the team. How did we do when he owned them? Sure it's easy to count cups but we had some very strong teams.
Yup, and the team started to turn it around almost right after he died.

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04-12-2010, 07:56 PM
  #43
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I just want the offseason to start already. I'm sick of this uncertainty with the Leafs. We don't know if the Leafs are gonna be another bottom feeder next year or if they'll compete in the playoffs, because we have to wait to see Burke's trades and free agency moves in the offseason. Gaaaaaah.

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04-12-2010, 08:24 PM
  #44
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Let's give Jim B some slack. We don't know what type of owner he would be because he never has been one. The guy is obviously very smart in regards to business, I mean he has built an empire. Who cares what Gary Bettman has said about the guy-who here thinks Gary Bettman has done a good job with the league?

Let's not talk about the money he got Hamilton to spend for the rink when city of Glendale will issue a new tax to make Reinsdorf happy. Fact is, if someone is going to give you something you take it. It business.

Now get off of Jim B and talk about the state of this franchise and get the house in order before we start being critical of everyone that has been, is or wants to be an owner.
Mess brought up Bassillie as an answer to the Leafs problems. It was a ridiculous solution. He needed to hear that.

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04-12-2010, 08:37 PM
  #45
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Yup, and the team started to turn it around almost right after he died.
Exactly. 3 years later we almost made the Finals

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Old
04-12-2010, 11:33 PM
  #46
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Mess brought up Bassillie as an answer to the Leafs problems. It was a ridiculous solution. He needed to hear that.
I've been trying to find his responses but no luck?

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04-13-2010, 03:00 AM
  #47
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I'll say sorry to Ballard right after he apologizes to me... Hey, whats fair is fair.

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04-13-2010, 08:43 AM
  #48
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... and now Brian Burke’s blitzkrieg approach...
The only usefull line in this crappy article. Finally a fitting word that describes Burkie`s doing.
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Heck he wanted MacLean as an advisor !!! Balsillie would be h ballard the 2nd, a complete circus !!!
Yup, but what a model owner he'd be. All he wants is to win, no matter what the cost! That dude would be caught with tampering charges and salary infractions to the point we'd lose all our draft picks.

Oh you guys stop. That made me laugh so hard.
But wouldn`t the Ballard era rather refer to an asylum?

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