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Old
04-11-2010, 06:27 PM
  #51
eco's bones
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The reason the team failed was because of structural problems--these problems have been around now for a few years. It's like living in an apartment building--the rooms in themselves might look nice but when you go down into the basement and check the foundation that's what really counts.

The Rangers foundation sucks. The owner is Dolan--the architect is Sather and the building superintendant is Tortorella and in their own unique ways they're all failures.
Just think MDZ a 19 year old defenseman had 37 pts. That adds up pretty much to the production of both Redden and Rozsival (who between them take up $11.5 mil in cap space). Your highest paid players have to produce in this league or your team is going to be crap.

To me it isn't about wanting my team to lose--it's about wanting them to fix their mistakes and we're not going to be a team to take seriously until we do. Even if we did make the playoffs today--no one with any sanity that wasn't a total homer could realistically think that we would get out of the first round against the Capitals.

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Old
04-11-2010, 06:30 PM
  #52
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so what? I gave up on the team 3 weeks ago as well. when they had a chance to go further I kept my fingers crossed. BUT... I am not sad that they did not go through. They need to get rid of many players and going to round one would make less obvious.

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04-11-2010, 06:31 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
Well, I predicted all season long a 6th-8th seed and first round ouster. Turns out the Blueshirts couldn't even manage that miserable standard of mediocrity.

Props to those who fully understood how bad this team was.
Yeah, you're a regular Nostradamus. The overwhelming majority of the board predicted they would finish 6th-8th. I think they all must have realized that we finished 5th-7th in the last four years, and recognized we might be slightly worse than that this year. And we missed that range by a shootout goal. So, yeah, you're brilliant.

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04-11-2010, 07:15 PM
  #54
dedalus
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Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
Yeah, you're a regular Nostradamus. The overwhelming majority of the board predicted they would finish 6th-8th.
So I was wrong ... just like "the overwhelming majority of the board." How, exactly does being as wrong as almost everyone else make me Nostradamus?

See post #10.

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Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
So, yeah, you're brilliant.
So no. If I was brilliant I would have seen what some others here saw. THEY get the credit for brilliance ... or at least more hockey acumen than I possessed - and I guess more than "the overwhelming majority of the board" possessed, yes?

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04-11-2010, 07:20 PM
  #55
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Said the team would miss the playoffs and they did. Said that Hank wasn't elite and he proved me wrong the last 10 games he carried the team. Where was the desperation they showed in the last 10 games in the first 72? Down to one shot and season on the line and ur king gives up a wrister threw the legs to end the season. The fans here lived and died on him and he didn't make the save. This and the fact Olli shoots before Gabroik with the season on the line ? Torts WTF.

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Old
04-11-2010, 07:26 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Said the team would miss the playoffs and they did.
Well, you're a regular Nostradamus, aren't you?

Oh wait ... I guess you are.

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Old
04-11-2010, 07:30 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Because there's a ****ing difference?
Isn't anything other than winning the Cup a fail? The hope is that a fail now will ultimately help propel us to become a Cup contender.

Anyone with a clue knows this team, as constructed, is simply not a good team.

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04-11-2010, 07:36 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
So I was wrong ... just like "the overwhelming majority of the board." How, exactly does being as wrong as almost everyone else make me Nostradamus?

See post #10.


So no. If I was brilliant I would have seen what some others here saw. THEY get the credit for brilliance ... or at least more hockey acumen than I possessed - and I guess more than "the overwhelming majority of the board" possessed, yes?
Anyone who predicted they would finish 6th-8th essentially made a reasonably good prediction. That includes you. To say you were wrong is splitting hairs. You, and everyone else, realized this was a borderline playoff team.

I thought you were pleased with your prediction.

Now I understand you're giving credit to the people who said they would miss the playoffs. I don't see the point in that -- whether or not they made the playoffs came down to the flip of a coin. Hence the confusion with respect to my interpretation of your post.

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Old
04-11-2010, 07:39 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Said the team would miss the playoffs and they did. Said that Hank wasn't elite and he proved me wrong the last 10 games he carried the team. Where was the desperation they showed in the last 10 games in the first 72? Down to one shot and season on the line and ur king gives up a wrister threw the legs to end the season. The fans here lived and died on him and he didn't make the save. This and the fact Olli shoots before Gabroik with the season on the line ? Torts WTF.
Tell me what goalie you consider elite, and I tell you a crucial save he didn't make.

Ah why am I even responding to this? It's obvious you just hate him for some reason, and that's neveer gonna change. You wouldn't even consider him elite if he wins the vezina, hart and conn smythe in one season.

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Old
04-11-2010, 07:39 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Down to one shot and season on the line and ur king gives up a wrister threw the legs to end the season. The fans here lived and died on him and he didn't make the save. This and the fact Olli shoots before Gabroik with the season on the line ? Torts WTF.
I'd say the bigger problem is that it came down to one shot. They mustered ONE goal against a 33-year-old AHLer.

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04-11-2010, 07:47 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
Now I understand you're giving credit to the people who said they would miss the playoffs. I don't see the point in that -- whether or not they made the playoffs came down to the flip of a coin.
Not by any stretch of the imagination. They didn't lose by luck. They lost because they weren't good enough to beat another team that's barely eeking it's way into the playoffs. They lost because they don't have the talent to score more than one goal on a guy whom it's generous to call a journeyman.

This is exactly the problem identified by those who said from the beginning that this team would fail to make the playoffs: insufficient talent, especially in offensive production. Today's game bore out that assessment perfectly.

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04-11-2010, 07:54 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
I'd say the bigger problem is that it came down to one shot. They mustered ONE goal against a 33-year-old AHLer.
Oh I so agree but with PA and Voros and Boyle playing regular shifts we were lucky to be in it at all. They weren't a good team and it showed today

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Old
04-11-2010, 07:55 PM
  #63
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This thread is a little dramatic, but I'll admit, I thought they'd at least make the playoffs.

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04-11-2010, 07:58 PM
  #64
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You guys are obsessing about who Torts put out there for a skills competition. It's a load of crap. EC has one of the best shootout percentages in the history of hockey. Parenteau has been money in it too. I don't think he's missed. Also a lot of elite players like Gabs for whatever reason aren't good at it. Kotalik I think is the best shootout performer ever in hockey; says a lot about this stupid competition. Would I have put Jokinen out there? Probably not, but who the hell knows? IT'S NOT HOCKEY.

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04-11-2010, 07:59 PM
  #65
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It's hard to remain a fan of the NHL when garbage like the shootout exists. The only reason I keep watching is my love for the Rangers.

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04-11-2010, 08:00 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salz View Post
You guys are obsessing about who Torts put out there for a skills competition. It's a load of crap. EC has one of the best shootout percentages in the history of hockey. Parenteau has been money in it too. I don't think he's missed. Also a lot of elite players like Gabs for whatever reason aren't good at it. Kotalik I think is the best shootout performer ever in hockey; says a lot about this stupid competition. Would I have put Jokinen out there? Probably not, but who the hell knows? IT'S NOT HOCKEY.
Olli is a proven loser. He has to the worst waste of talent in the NHL. He has done nothing to deserve to be in that spot and Torts rewarded this loser with the honor of blowing it.

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Old
04-11-2010, 08:02 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
Not by any stretch of the imagination. They didn't lose by luck. They lost because they weren't good enough to beat another team that's barely eeking it's way into the playoffs. They lost because they don't have the talent to score more than one goal on a guy whom it's generous to call a journeyman.

This is exactly the problem identified by those who said from the beginning that this team would fail to make the playoffs: insufficient talent, especially in offensive production. Today's game bore out that assessment perfectly.
Over the course of an 8-month, 82-game season, a breakaway contest is what separated the playoff-bound Flyers and the golf course-bound Rangers. It really did come down to what equates to the flip of a coin. I'm not trying to give the Rangers more credit than they deserve. It's just clear that the difference between these two teams and between making and missing the playoffs this year is negligible. They were a little better than us today; we were a little better than them on Friday. They're the same crap.

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Old
04-11-2010, 08:08 PM
  #68
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Meh...i was between 6 and 10. No high expectations at all.

I will eat crow on Rosie, Staal and Girardi, who all rebounded from subpar 1st halves to be total rocks on D for the 2nd half.

By December I wanted all three gone. Now I know they can anchor a D, I think i want all 3 to return.

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04-11-2010, 08:14 PM
  #69
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It's really not that hard to understand. I didn't believe we had a good chance of making the playoffs, and if we did, I didn't believe we had a prayer of beating washington.

Like I've said before, if the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs was a 15th vs 12th pick, of course I'm going to root for the playoffs. But the difference this year, before we went on our run, was between a 15th pick and a top 5 pick. IMO, a top 5 pick would have been more valuable to this franchise than making the playoffs, given how bad this team is. It's as simple as that.

You can disagree if you want, but at this point it's all moot. We didn't make the playoffs. We didn't get a top 5 pick. Now all we need is for Sather's contract to get extended and our failure will be complete.
I will disagree that the worst outcome occurred today. I still believe the worst outcome would have a been a brief playoff appearance, where Dolan gets his playoff money and a subpar season was unjustly rewarded. 10 or 11 is a better pick with more options for this franchise going forward if Clark and his staff follow up on their recent quality work.

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Old
04-11-2010, 08:31 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Because there's a ****ing difference?

Yes, there is a huge difference between rooting for the team to lose and rooting for the organization to change. If you knew someone close in your life going down every wrong path, you would not want them to get in trouble, but you hope they might get smacked with a reality check. Well, this is a similar situation.

This was my family's 30th year with season tickets, and I am getting tired of the team always going in the wrong direction. I want this team to lose not the entire franchise.

The rules are the rules. The worst team (statistically) get the best pick. If you are not good enough to go anywhere you (the team) should not build a half-@@@ team that is patched year to year!

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04-11-2010, 09:01 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
Over the course of an 8-month, 82-game season, a breakaway contest is what separated the playoff-bound Flyers and the golf course-bound Rangers. It really did come down to what equates to the flip of a coin. I'm not trying to give the Rangers more credit than they deserve. It's just clear that the difference between these two teams and between making and missing the playoffs this year is negligible. They were a little better than us today; we were a little better than them on Friday. They're the same crap.
And neither of them would/will win the Stanley Cup this year...so it's really a moot point.

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04-11-2010, 09:18 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
And neither of them would/will win the Stanley Cup this year...so it's really a moot point.
Which isn't that far from my point. But whatever it's not important.

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04-11-2010, 09:26 PM
  #73
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The arguments going on in this thread are ridiculous. There are many types of fans, some which I hate.

My least favorite fan is the one who wants the team to tank to do well in the future. It's the most backward ****ed up thinking, and ruins the integrity of everything. **** anyone who thinks this would be good for the game of hockey or any league.

The best fan is the one who understands when his team is not good, but hopes/cheers for the team to win the cup, every year. On top of that, the fan also realizes that the players on the ice are humans, subject to streaky play, and sees this as the basis for any underdog story.

Not saying this is Dedalus' opinion, but to anyone who behaves similarly to my least favorite fan, go **** yourself.

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04-11-2010, 09:42 PM
  #74
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Can you blame us for not being optimistic before the season started? I mean look how many players underachieved from our starting roster.

1. Redden - We thought that he could not get any worse from last year and even he admitted he had to step up his game, we all expected him to be at least better then last season, which he wasnt..

2. Avery - I Love Avery when he's Avery, but he wasnt himself for most of the season, and we have to wonder if its Torts who was holding him back.

3. Drury - Excellent as always on the penalty kill but his offense just disappeared and we were all expecting a 20-25 goal season.

4. Gilroy - All this talk about the offensive side of him and how he would be an excellent offensive defenseman. We all saw flashes of his offense but he underachieved.

5. Lisin - We all expected him to thrive in Tortorellas system. Unfortonately he stunk.

6. Higgins - There were posters who were saying they can see higgins notching 25-30 this year. Even though we saw effort, there was no finish. ABSOLUTELY NO FINISH.

7. Kotalik - 20 goal scorer my ass

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Old
04-11-2010, 09:53 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by NYRamonte10 View Post
The arguments going on in this thread are ridiculous. There are many types of fans, some which I hate.

My least favorite fan is the one who wants the team to tank to do well in the future. It's the most backward ****ed up thinking, and ruins the integrity of everything. **** anyone who thinks this would be good for the game of hockey or any league.

The best fan is the one who understands when his team is not good, but hopes/cheers for the team to win the cup, every year. On top of that, the fan also realizes that the players on the ice are humans, subject to streaky play, and sees this as the basis for any underdog story.

Not saying this is Dedalus' opinion, but to anyone who behaves similarly to my least favorite fan, go **** yourself.
Not saying this is your opinion, but to anyone who supports getting knocked out in the first or second round of the playoffs for 5 consecutive years, thus continually maintaining a status quo of mediocrity...

Sometimes you have to hit bottom before you can go the distance. Fishing 10th to 20th every year does little to help the team improve its performance in the future.

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