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Dolan is pissed, let's hope this brings changes

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Old
04-12-2010, 01:30 PM
  #76
hpNYR
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Originally Posted by LamoTheKid View Post
Oh, really? So the fact the most of the books we read as children/teens like Tom Sawyer, 1984, Lord of the Flies, Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe, Farenheit 451 are no long taught and banned from schools because they're deemed offensive isnt censorship on a large scale?

Ever watch "This Film is not yet Rated"? If you have netflix, do it (its streaming). Large scale censorship right there, mostly govt influenced too.

I can go on and on and on. The US and many other countries CERTAINLY have a lot of censorship going on. The difference is, communist countries don't lie about it.

You've really put your foot in your mouth here. YOU compared Dolans regime to a communist regime because Dolan doesnt allow his GMs to talk to the media. Basically saying censorship = communism.

Show me EXACLTY where I said this, or is it just time to be a smug undergrad PolySci major who pretends to know what they're talking about (in freshman year)?

My original point had you read it was that Dolan is far from being some communist ruler like YOU are comparing him to. Bad owner? Yes. Stalin? Hardly.

Now run off to study group, finals are coming up and youve got nights of Adderall induced studying to do, because if you throw those facts around during the essay questions, you're doomed.
Unbunch your panties and simmer down. Obviously Dolan isn't a Stalin. You can't be serious right now can you? I was comparing one of his tactics to a part of communism. As far as censorship, you definitley don't know the many kinds of censorship. You're talking about non-political censorship. You're talking more about moral censorship(books, movies etc). Way to get ahead of yourself and twist words to staisfy your political ego. This shouldn't even be discussed in this thread. Comparing Dolan to rulers?????

Check this link w/ Jimmy at it again : http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knick...E88974A5C6CCEB

It's one particular thing he does that I compared to a part of communism. Stop being so insecure & so defensive which is leading to very stupid remarks. If having my bachelors and working on my masters w/ a 3.35 GPA means im a freshman, then so be it. I'm not going to continue wasting my time with you in this thread. Politics doesn't belong in this thread. If you want to continue this in the political forum or PM, i'll be more than happy too.


Last edited by hpNYR: 04-12-2010 at 01:39 PM.
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Old
04-12-2010, 01:39 PM
  #77
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OK guys, no one cares about your GPA or your major. And this discussion can easily be had without bringing politics into the mix. So please, let's do that and stay on topic.

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04-12-2010, 01:52 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by NYR425 View Post
I find it very funny that so many so called huge Ranger fans blame all on Dolan... He does not mettle at all ( I know this for a fact ) gives the GM all the money he wants to get the job done and card blanche on player moves and movement . This mess should be blamed on the GM, coach and players... I personally think Dolan has been a very good owner, he just needs better hockey people around him... I also believe Messier should not be the GM either.
(Attempting to un-derail this topic)

I think Dolan has done a good job FINANCIALLY with the team. I think he writes blank checks to both the Rangers and the Knicks and tells his staff to do what it takes to win.

Now, with that said, I think Dolan has done a poor job on the management side of things. Yes, he is a hands-off guy as most owners should be, but he is so hands-off that he doesn't realize when a change in management and personnel needs to occur.

Sather has gotten us into this mess because Dolan, being good friends with Slats, allowed him to play around much too long with his checkbook and the freedom given to run the organization. Many of us wish Sather was as good at trades as he was at signing FA's but the fact of the matter is, he isn't.

If Sather could run the trading aspect of GM'ing while someone more competent runs the UFA signings and resignings I wouldn't mind Glenny boy staying on board.

I am very anxious about Messier taking over though -- I fear his inexperience will have it's own pitfalls for this organization and obviously this stems from the whole Gretzky fiasco in Phoenix.

My 0.02$

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04-12-2010, 02:24 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by NYR425 View Post
I find it very funny that so many so called huge Ranger fans blame all on Dolan... He does not mettle at all ( I know this for a fact ) gives the GM all the money he wants to get the job done and card blanche on player moves and movement . This mess should be blamed on the GM, coach and players... I personally think Dolan has been a very good owner, he just needs better hockey people around him... I also believe Messier should not be the GM either.
Good owners hold people accountable. Yes, the GM, coach and players should be blamed, and it's on the owner to do something to change what is going on.

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04-12-2010, 02:26 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Good owners hold people accountable. Yes, the GM, coach and players should be blamed, and it's on the owner to do something to change what is going on.
It's because Dolan has his "frat boy" group, and Glen Sather is part of it.

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04-12-2010, 02:31 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Good owners hold people accountable. Yes, the GM, coach and players should be blamed, and it's on the owner to do something to change what is going on.
Dolan knows absolutely nothing about hockey. Sathers got some serious job security.

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04-12-2010, 02:40 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by gotmonte View Post
Oh what I wouldnt give to see Sather Fired. The next best thing would be seeing Larry Brooks kicked off the beat for the Rangers. How can you write for a team inwhich the team COACH wont speak to YOU. lol

But seriously, Glenn Sather Fired (and never allowed to trade with the Rangers, cause we all know he is a master at trades and would **** us blind) and see Torts kept. Something about him kills me. Pisses me off one day, makes me laugh the next. So I say keep him one more year.

Messier.. ahhh Messier, I dont want to see him in ANY position with the Rangers if it involves Personel movement. I just dont trust the guy. I trust him in game 7 stanley cup finals, but not as a coach/special assistant/assistant/vice president/gm/president/owner. Period.

Just look at what happened with Gretzky. And Wayne is much smarter in Hockey ( thats MY opinion though ) than Mark is. And we ALL know how that **** went down in Pheonix


Messier is dumb as a rock and doesn't know it. Very dangerous combination, so I agree with you.

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04-12-2010, 02:50 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
Messier is dumb as a rock and doesn't know it. Very dangerous combination, so I agree with you.
You are completely off base and you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. How about before insulting someone's intelligence, try providing any grounds at all to your argument?

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04-12-2010, 02:54 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Cherepanisimov View Post
You are completely off base and you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. How about before insulting someone's intelligence, try providing any grounds at all to your argument?
Why don't you? Or is it un-Ranger like to not like Messier as anything but a number in the rafters when it comes to the Rangers?

He was a ***** when he left to go to Vancouver, and that last thing I want is Doug Messier involved in our front office (which he most certainly will be if Mess takes the reigns). Also, he's the GM of a team where he gets to cherrypick the best talent without any salary cap or consequences if they lose.

EDIT: love your avatar btw (and no, im not being sarcastic)

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04-12-2010, 03:01 PM
  #85
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You mean when he was forced out of NY? You mean when Brian Leetch basically told Neil Smith that he was full of **** and didn't even want the captaincy? That was all Messier though and not the Rangers org right?

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04-12-2010, 03:02 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by LamoTheKid View Post
Dolan knows absolutely nothing about hockey. Sathers got some serious job security.
Dolan knows this team played rookies and thinks it will be much better next season. He was resigned to that during the Olympic break when I had the opportunity to chat with him. Nobody is getting fired this summer. Next year may be a different story. He was on board with the plan to play the kids and only trade youth if a key long term addition was coming back. Pressure will be on Sather this summer to unload another albatross contract (guess who), sign our key players like Staal, and try to acquire a "not too old" stud or two. They are finally committed to a three year plan.

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04-12-2010, 03:04 PM
  #87
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I really don't understand all this negativity towards Messier.

Yes, I too have serious doubts about him; mostly because of his lack of experience. But experience is not a guarantee of success. Look at Sather! Why is Steve Yzerman so highly regarded in Detroit, yet his experience is really not all the greater than Messiers?

I've been spending a lot of time trying to understand why people have such doubts about Mess.

Is it because he took time off to enjoy life after retiring instead of jumping right in to the Ranger front office? Do people think this shows a lack of commitment? Didn't he have the right to decompress and access his life?

Is it because he cries a lot and people perceive this as a lack of toughness and that people will take advantage of him? Really....you must be kidding!

Is it because of the Gretzky situation in Phoenix? What really does that have to do with Mark? Different people, personalities, etc.

Is it because of his connection with Sather and people consider anything associated with Glen to be tainted by the disaster he has created?

What is it? As I said, I too have my doubts (his inexperience is the factor for me) but the amount of Messier loathing here is out of hand.

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04-12-2010, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
I really don't understand all this negativity towards Messier.

Yes, I too have serious doubts about him; mostly because of his lack of experience. But experience is not a guarantee of success. Look at Sather! Why is Steve Yzerman so highly regarded in Detroit, yet his experience is really not all the greater than Messiers?

I've been spending a lot of time trying to understand why people have such doubts about Mess.

Is it because he took time off to enjoy life after retiring instead of jumping right in to the Ranger front office? Do people think this shows a lack of commitment? Didn't he have the right to decompress and access his life?

Is it because he cries a lot and people perceive this as a lack of toughness and that people will take advantage of him? Really....you must be kidding!

Is it because of the Gretzky situation in Phoenix? What really does that have to do with Mark? Different people, personalities, etc.

Is it because of his connection with Sather and people consider anything associated with Glen to be tainted by the disaster he has created?

What is it? As I said, I too have my doubts (his inexperience is the factor for me) but the amount of Messier loathing here is out of hand.
I don't hate Messier. Quite the opposite. In this case however just look at the resume and tell us why you would hire him as GM. You really answered your own question before adding all the hypothetical suggestions. Zero successful executive experience.

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04-12-2010, 03:17 PM
  #89
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My personal problem with Mess is simply a lack of experience. He has 1 season under his belt as an executive. If Sather were to step down, the obvious move to me would be to move Schoenfeld from assistant GM to GM and allow Messier to be assistant GM for a few years.

I am also worried that Messier failure in the GM position would taint my love for Messier the Ranger player, which is more likely if he takes the position over with minimal experience.

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04-12-2010, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
I really don't understand all this negativity towards Messier.

Yes, I too have serious doubts about him; mostly because of his lack of experience. But experience is not a guarantee of success. Look at Sather! Why is Steve Yzerman so highly regarded in Detroit, yet his experience is really not all the greater than Messiers?

I've been spending a lot of time trying to understand why people have such doubts about Mess.

Is it because he took time off to enjoy life after retiring instead of jumping right in to the Ranger front office? Do people think this shows a lack of commitment? Didn't he have the right to decompress and access his life?

Is it because he cries a lot and people perceive this as a lack of toughness and that people will take advantage of him? Really....you must be kidding!

Is it because of the Gretzky situation in Phoenix? What really does that have to do with Mark? Different people, personalities, etc.

Is it because of his connection with Sather and people consider anything associated with Glen to be tainted by the disaster he has created?

What is it? As I said, I too have my doubts (his inexperience is the factor for me) but the amount of Messier loathing here is out of hand.
Maybe, and this is just a shot in the dark -

Wouldnt it be wiser to clean the decks, sever the Edomonton ties and interview a half dozen candidates?

Isnt that the sound way to do business, or is that too much to ask from the Rangers? Probably the latter.

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04-12-2010, 03:34 PM
  #91
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You mean when he was forced out of NY? You mean when Brian Leetch basically told Neil Smith that he was full of **** and didn't even want the captaincy? That was all Messier though and not the Rangers org right?
How is a GM who has Pat Lafontaine and Wayne Gretzky as his top two centers and not wanting another ridiculous contract for a 36 year old vet @ 3yrs/20 million "Forcing out"?

If Messier wanted to stay that bad, he'd of taken less (and yes, I know he "maintains" that he'd of taken 1 year at 6 mil, BIG HOMETOWN DISCOUNT FOLKS).

Combine that with how he acted in Vancouver (taking #11 when it was unofficially retired to Maki, apparently forcing out Linden) plus his performance in Vancouver (awful first year, and injuries thereafter) and yeah, id say it was on Messier. Smith was being "smart".

And for those of you wondering why Yzerman seems like a better choice, at least he was part of a continuous winning organization instead of one that failed a few times, was ok at others, and got us one cup. Plus, as HockeyBased mentions, it cuts off the Edmonton boys club which a lot of people around here want gone.

NOTE: I dont want Yzerman, but i'm not as opposed to him as Messier.

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04-12-2010, 03:41 PM
  #92
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When do you think we'll hear something?

This week? End of playoffs? Never?

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04-12-2010, 03:46 PM
  #93
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Nothing instills more confidence than a pissed Dolan making a hockey decision.

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04-12-2010, 03:47 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by LamoTheKid View Post
Why don't you? Or is it un-Ranger like to not like Messier as anything but a number in the rafters when it comes to the Rangers?

He was a ***** when he left to go to Vancouver, and that last thing I want is Doug Messier involved in our front office (which he most certainly will be if Mess takes the reigns). Also, he's the GM of a team where he gets to cherrypick the best talent without any salary cap or consequences if they lose.

EDIT: love your avatar btw (and no, im not being sarcastic)
I never said I supported Messier or that he is immune to criticism. I am saying that unless you have an actual reason to call him dumb, you come off as pretty dumb yourself (not you, the other guy).

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04-12-2010, 03:50 PM
  #95
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I never said I supported Messier or that he is immune to criticism. I am saying that unless you have an actual reason to call him dumb, you come off as pretty dumb yourself (not you, the other guy).
Ok, no worries. But I was interested in seeing more reasons why he SHOULD be the GM other than "hes the WC GM" and "he led us to a cup".

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04-12-2010, 03:52 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by LamoTheKid View Post
How is a GM who has Pat Lafontaine and Wayne Gretzky as his top two centers and not wanting another ridiculous contract for a 36 year old vet @ 3yrs/20 million "Forcing out"?

If Messier wanted to stay that bad, he'd of taken less (and yes, I know he "maintains" that he'd of taken 1 year at 6 mil, BIG HOMETOWN DISCOUNT FOLKS).

Combine that with how he acted in Vancouver (taking #11 when it was unofficially retired to Maki, apparently forcing out Linden) plus his performance in Vancouver (awful first year, and injuries thereafter) and yeah, id say it was on Messier. Smith was being "smart".

And for those of you wondering why Yzerman seems like a better choice, at least he was part of a continuous winning organization instead of one that failed a few times, was ok at others, and got us one cup. Plus, as HockeyBased mentions, it cuts off the Edmonton boys club which a lot of people around here want gone.

NOTE: I dont want Yzerman, but i'm not as opposed to him as Messier.
Messier signed with Vancouver in July; LaFontaine wasn't brought until September AFTER Colorado matched the offer for Sakic and the Flyers had signed and then traded for Gratton.

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04-12-2010, 03:56 PM
  #97
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Nothing instills more confidence than a pissed Dolan making a hockey decision.
The more things change........

Take a leave of absence from this place, only to return and see that not much has changed.

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04-12-2010, 03:56 PM
  #98
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Messier signed with Vancouver in July; LaFontaine wasn't brought until September AFTER Colorado matched the offer for Sakic and the Flyers had signed and then traded for Gratton.
Ok, I stand corrected, still, as much as I hate complimenting smith, I feel he made the right choice. And I have the luxury of hindsight to justify that.

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04-12-2010, 03:57 PM
  #99
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The more things change........

Take a leave of absence from this place, only to return and see that not much has changed.
Who are you?

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04-12-2010, 03:59 PM
  #100
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http://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/12065470569\

Lots of speculation in New York about Sather's future. Only Slats knows what's going to happen. One scenario includes Risebrough staying

risebrough was the former wild gm, right?

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