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Old
04-13-2010, 12:08 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Really? Look at Callahan's offensive numbers before and after Tortorella?

I can understand attributing Staal and Dubinsky to basic growth but Callahan was far too prominent.
Far too prominent? He played his first full season last year — when Renney was the coach for the majority of the season. He had statistically better year last year.

I fail to see this prominent change under Torts.

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04-13-2010, 12:09 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
Playing some of the worst teams in the league certainly didn't hurt either...
I understand your point in saying this comment, but it's not like the other teams didn't have to play those teams either. Yeah we got lucky and got them down the stretch, when the team happened to have been playing well. However, the same could be said for other teams who at one point or another in the season got crappy teams while they were on a hot stretch.

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04-13-2010, 12:13 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Really? Look at Callahan's offensive numbers before and after Tortorella?

I can understand attributing Staal and Dubinsky to basic growth but Callahan was far too prominent.
Cally pretty much had the same amount of points as last year and that's with A LOT more power play minutes and time on the top line. Cally was 24 going on 25 this season, its was time for him to step up. He has progressed every year in the pro's.

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04-13-2010, 12:16 PM
  #54
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As much as I can't stand the guy, it's hard to blame him with the obvious personnel deficiency he has to deal with.

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04-13-2010, 12:20 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Really? Look at Callahan's offensive numbers before and after Tortorella?

I can understand attributing Staal and Dubinsky to basic growth but Callahan was far too prominent.
I actually agree that the numbers are too striking to just be basic growth. Maybe Callahan just clicked one day, maybe Tortorella is a positive influence on him. However, Sean Avery and Michal Rozsival's decrease in production under Torts is equally alarming.

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04-13-2010, 12:24 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I actually agree that the numbers are too striking to just be basic growth. Maybe Callahan just clicked one day, maybe Tortorella is a positive influence on him. However, Sean Avery and Michal Rozsival's decrease in production under Torts is equally alarming.
Rozsival not really.

He came back from his surgery and played horrible for two months, then slowly turned into one of our best 2 defenseman for every game playing very reliable. Plus he only had 7 less points then last season, i'd hardly call that alarming.

Avery had 2 less points then his last full season with the Rangers. Played 12 more games, but again, I wouldn't exactly call that alarming as he also was coming off an injury and struggled at first.

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04-13-2010, 12:29 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I actually agree that the numbers are too striking to just be basic growth. Maybe Callahan just clicked one day, maybe Tortorella is a positive influence on him. However, Sean Avery and Michal Rozsival's decrease in production under Torts is equally alarming.
You and Fitzy need to go back and check the stats.

Cally - 20 PP points playing with Gaborik/Prospal/Del Z

Last year we had NO ONE like those 3 on the PP, there numbers shattered our PP leaders last year. Give Renney's team those 3 and you wouldve seen similar #'s from Cally.

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04-13-2010, 12:31 PM
  #58
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Avery said he struggled to understand what his role on the team was for most of the year. Meaning that Tortorella didn't like Avery being Avery. IDK.

http://twitter.com/agrossRecord
Quote:
#NYRangers Sean Avery said it took a while this season to figure out how he needed to play. Expects to be more comfortable next season.

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04-13-2010, 12:38 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
Rozsival not really.

He came back from his surgery and played horrible for two months, then slowly turned into one of our best 2 defenseman for every game playing very reliable. Plus he only had 7 less points then last season, i'd hardly call that alarming.

Avery had 2 less points then his last full season with the Rangers. Played 12 more games, but again, I wouldn't exactly call that alarming as he also was coming off an injury and struggled at first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
You and Fitzy need to go back and check the stats.

Cally - 20 PP points playing with Gaborik/Prospal/Del Z

Last year we had NO ONE like those 3 on the PP, there numbers shattered our PP leaders last year. Give Renney's team those 3 and you wouldve seen similar #'s from Cally.
midway through the season I did a study of the production under Tortorella vs. Renney per Inferno's request. here it is:

Players average 82 game production under Tortorella (Left) and Renney (Right)

Sean Avery:
16 G--22 G
24 A--29 A
40 Pts--51 Pts

Ryan Callahan
25 G--16 G
23 A--11 A
48 Pts--27 Pts

Brandon Dubinsky:
22 G--12 G
27 A--26 A
49 Pts--39 Pts

Chris Drury
17 G--23 G
27 A--32 A
44 Pts--55 Pts

Dan Girardi
5 G--6 G
16 A--17 A
21 Pts--23 Pts

Wade Redden
3 G--3 G
16 A--25 A
19 Pts--28 Pts

Michal Rozsival
3 G--10 G
17 A--27 A
20 Pts--37 Pts

Marc Staal
5 G--2 G
21 A--9 A
26 Pts--11 Pts

Aaron Voros
2 G--13 G
7 A--11 A
9 Pts--24 Pts

Henrik Lundqvist (70 Games)
35-27-8|--|37-22-9
2.37--2.33
0.918--0.916
3 SO--5 SO

this of course only goes up to March 20.

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Old
04-13-2010, 12:39 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
yeah really..i mean, if it wasn't for the chemistry of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd lines they never would have scored the extra goals we needed to beat philly and get into the playoffs!

wait a second..

you can't blame a guy, coaching a team with a wattered down roster, for trying to roll with who's hot that game....not saying i'd do it, but i undserstand why he did it, and its not what held this team back
Isn't Gaborik saying though that in order for people to "get hot," they need to have time to develop chemistry with their linemates? I don't think anyone would fault Torts for rolling with the hot line, but for lines to get consistently hot, they need to have more than one period playing with each other.

It's like all the people that said let's sacrifice short term (this season) to help the long term (better draft pick)...so, let's sacrifice the short term (a few games) to help the long term (developing line chemistry).

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04-13-2010, 12:42 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
WTF were the Renney 1 or 2 round exit years? The Torts people have been telling me THOSE years were the mediocre years.
I thas largely been a mediocre to poor decade.

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04-13-2010, 12:43 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Far too prominent? He played his first full season last year — when Renney was the coach for the majority of the season. He had statistically better year last year.

I fail to see this prominent change under Torts.
Callahan's points per game last year under Renney: .33
Callahan's points per game last year under Tortorella: .80
Callahan's points per game this year under Tortorella: .48

So, he has seen a good increase in points per game under Tortorella. If his year last season was statistically better, it's because he had 9 goals and 8 assists in 21 games under Tortorella.

Those numbers might not be exact, but they're close. Certainly illustrate the trend.

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04-13-2010, 12:46 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Avery said he struggled to understand what his role on the team was for most of the year. Meaning that Tortorella didn't like Avery being Avery. IDK.

http://twitter.com/agrossRecord
Meanwhile Prust really had no problem with the role he played. Makes ya wonder......

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04-13-2010, 12:48 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Meanwhile Prust really had no problem with the role he played. Makes ya wonder......
Does it? Sean has a screw loose, it's clear. Prust has never been the agitator that Sean was/is/is supposed to be, either.

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04-13-2010, 12:54 PM
  #65
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Glad that Torts will be back. No point in switching coaches every season because people feel they have to blame someone. Blame the players, they are professionals and on most nights they looked horrible.

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04-13-2010, 01:05 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Does it? Sean has a screw loose, it's clear. Prust has never been the agitator that Sean was/is/is supposed to be, either.
The 3rd line role I meant, not Avery's 'defined role' whatever that is.

I couldn't give a damn what game they played as long as its a team game and it produces results. Prust showed he could do that and then some. And it took him relatively no time to do so.

Hopefully next year we won't have to wait months for Sean to figure himself out.

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04-13-2010, 01:07 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Glad that Torts will be back. No point in switching coaches every season because people feel they have to blame someone.
That's what happened last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Blame the players, they are professionals and on most nights they looked horrible.
You can't fire the entire team. But doesn't some of this fall on the coach who was reputed for getting the most of out his players?

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04-13-2010, 01:09 PM
  #68
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I really laugh when people say Torts has to deal with this team. I think the head coach would have some input as to who he wanted on this team. Last year, different story he inherited a team. This past season, I highly doubt Sather and Torts never discussed free agents or players via trade last summer. We all know Sather is incompetent, but saying Torts was handed a crap team this year come on he had say.

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04-13-2010, 01:12 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's what happened last year.



You can't fire the entire team. But doesn't some of this fall on the coach who was reputed for getting the most of out his players?
Unfortunately the team itself quit on the coach. That was not the case this season.

I believe some fault lies in the coach yes, but to expect everything to go well in the 1st year of a coaches tenure, IMO, is asking too much. The team itself wasn't great, and I would say that they finished around where I thought they would and pretty much all of the younger players developed well as the season went along which is key with a young team.

Am I happy they missed the playoffs? No. Do I think there was another coach who could have gotten more out of this team? No.

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04-13-2010, 01:14 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
I really laugh when people say Torts has to deal with this team. I think the head coach would have some input as to who he wanted on this team. Last year, different story he inherited a team. This past season, I highly doubt Sather and Torts never discussed free agents or players via trade last summer. We all know Sather is incompetent, but saying Torts was handed a crap team this year come on he had say.
Sure he had say on some of those players. He wanted a better offensive player. Gaborik. Unfortunately, Higgins came with that as the only way to create the cap room to sign Gabby. He wanted youth on the blue-line. MDZ and Gilroy. Some ups and downs but at least I can live with that fact that they are moving in the right direction. Kotalik. Did not work out at all.

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04-13-2010, 01:21 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Unfortunately the team itself quit on the coach. That was not the case this season.

I believe some fault lies in the coach yes, but to expect everything to go well in the 1st year of a coaches tenure, IMO, is asking too much. The team itself wasn't great, and I would say that they finished around where I thought they would and pretty much all of the younger players developed well as the season went along which is key with a young team.

Am I happy they missed the playoffs? No. Do I think there was another coach who could have gotten more out of this team? No.
You really think there is no coach that could have gotten more out of this team and gotten them into the playoffs? There were 3 spots up for grabs the last week of the season and we were in it.

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04-13-2010, 01:23 PM
  #72
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I still think he's the wrong kind of coach to build with, he's a finisher if anything, he should be working for a contender trying to get the very best out of very good talent.
I'm guessing that was the idea when they brought him in. Imagine how different things could have been if last year's team actually responded to the Torts strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
If people cant see that Sather has hurt this team and makes bad decesions not because it was a mistake in his mind but because his persanilty fits the descritpion of what players he gets.
I'm sorry, but this Ranger roster could have and should have put up a better performance than it did this season. You can be realistic about their chances and still feel that there were too many unacceptable performances out of the team this year and the coach bears some responsibility.

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04-13-2010, 01:23 PM
  #73
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You really think there is no coach that could have gotten more out of this team and gotten them into the playoffs? There were 3 spots up for grabs the last week of the season and we were in it.
I can think of several coaches, most of them that have a brain when it comes to defense, that could have at least led this team into the playoffs.

One is Torts' predecessor.

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04-13-2010, 01:29 PM
  #74
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Torts shares the blame, but night in night out we saw a "team" that couldn't/wouldn't play 60 minutes of hockey for 80 games. All the yelling from a coach can't make them skate when the puck drops.The Captain's supposed to address what a coach doesn't. He failed. The vet's need to play like they want to win, they didn't. The rest just weren't good enough to get the job done with the exception of a few.

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04-13-2010, 01:31 PM
  #75
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You really think there is no coach that could have gotten more out of this team and gotten them into the playoffs? There were 3 spots up for grabs the last week of the season and we were in it.
I am not enamored with the team as a whole and sure, there may be some better coaches who preach "defense-first" but then the team would have scored less goals than it did which would lead to less victories. All-in-all the team itself just didnt mesh quick enough, too much turnover and problems in the locker room.

I am not saying Torts is the best coach in the league, I just happen to fault the players when they don't show up for multiple games in a row because they are professionals. It seems most people will disagree and say it was mainly Torts' coaching, that is their opinion.

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