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Eight Steps To Fix Flunking Rangers

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Old
04-13-2010, 12:08 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think we could use a legit #2 center. Christensen seems to have some chemistry with Gaborik. If they can find a #2 center and save some money that way, they might be bettered served that way.
GAGline hit on a good option...one year of Koivu. I was against it last year, but, that was when I still believed Dubinsky was a center.

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04-13-2010, 12:08 PM
  #77
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We need a legit number one center NOW, if we have to trade for it than so be it. Kreider & Steppan may pan out, but that's still a couple of years away. We have assetts, we may as well use a few of them.
This is the type of thinking that keeps bad teams bad. Either Kreider or Stepan alone isn't netting us a legit #1 center, so how much are you willing to give up for that player? How much cap space are you willing to commit to that player?

What center are we talking about anyway? Richards? We're not 1 player away from being a cup contender. You don't trade away valuable prospects just so we can make the playoffs and lose in the 1st round again. If you're trading away Kreider or Stepan, it better result in us having a legit shot at winning the cup.

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04-13-2010, 12:09 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
GAGline hit on a good option...one year of Koivu. I was against it last year, but, that was when I still believed Dubinsky was a center.
Don't love it. Or hate it.

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04-13-2010, 12:10 PM
  #79
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I agree with a lot of the OP. The only tweak and its debateable is the Rangers should move some of the D prospect assets in favor of offensive assets. They already have a pretty young blueline and the team really really really really needs to add some scoring on the forward lines.

I guess to add to that, where do you fit the addition of a bona fide scoring threat on the top 6 without moving someone off the roster.

All the real contenders in this league have MULTIPLE elite players in their top 6. Most got them by drafting well after sucking bad. But the Sharks traded well... as did the Devils this year to acquire Kovulchuk

Rangers showed some chemistry down the stretch. It took 60 games but at least we saw it. The trick now is to add a top 6 threat with as little disruption to the roster as possible imo...

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04-13-2010, 12:11 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Drury isn't UFA until 2012.

The problem with trading Gilroy and Rozy, and waiving Redden, is that they have to be replaced. Ok, so you sign one of Volchenkov/Hamhuis/Michalek. Do we stick Sangs and McDonagh in the other spots? That's a lot of youth on the blueline, considering MDZ will only be in his 2nd year.

At this point, we are all just speculating that Redden will be waived. If he isn't, our hands will be pretty well tied in the free agent market.
bring up one of them or hekkinen.. i personally dont care much whose back there for next year.. as long as they are young and can mature n grow on the team.. i dont expect the team to compete for a cup for 2-3years.. and these are steps that must be done..

look you honestly think prust and EC are gonna make over 2million combined? Staal will get 3-3.5 and girardi doesnt deserve more than 2.5..

i honestly dont care about getting kovy.. but what we need is volchenkov plus either michalek or hamhuis.. im not saying theyll sign for that, im giving an estimate of what i would offer. your taking my price amount offers WAY to seriously.

no offense but it is that easy to free up that much capspace.. grow some balls n drop redden to hartford, let jokinen walk.. basically 13million released there. rosie has played well enough to find takers, such as a young solid team looking for help on the defensive side and has capspace like florida. you cant tell me no1 would take rosie. Gilroy yes he doesnt have a ton of trade value, but hes still very young and you can atleast get a solid pick for him..

with those 3 traded or released on the backline, we still have staal, MDZ, and girardi. Time to give Sangs a shot, and hekkinen his due. then hopefully we could have signed one of the 3 i said..

Staal Girardi
MDZ FA
Hekkinen sangs

Idc if its a very young backline, we arent going newhere for another couple of years, give them a ****ing chance already and let them play.. id rather see them make mistakes and learn from them, over ****** redden with no heart. and i forgot when drury was a fa but regardless its still 7million commin up soon.. it allows our young prospects to grow n flurish and become a part of this team..

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04-13-2010, 12:14 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Don't love it. Or hate it.
I'd rather commit short term money to a stopgap, than overpay long term for someone like Plekanec. IF Bluenote is correct that the Rangers have their eyes on a potential #1 center like Johansen in the draft, and they draft him, then all I want are short term, relatively inexpensive solutions, be it at center, or on defense for when McDonagh is ready.

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04-13-2010, 12:17 PM
  #82
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I'm not so concerned about finding a scoring winger which I know sounds odd. There is always someone left without a home come August, its just a matter of not flinching and sticking to those 1 year deals for reasonable money. Afinigenov comes to mind. Tanguay was another. These aren't guys that will change the fortunes of the team, but they can fill a need for the short term until some of these better draft picks get ready. Kind of the mentality with Christensen.

I'm much more concerned with the blueline. Very little offense generated back there, almost no pp ability save Del Zotto and frankly their defensive play is bad. Redden is simply addition by subtraction because for that money you can afford a 2nd pairing guy and a 3rd pairing guy that would actually take Redden's spot.
Roszival is just too inconsistent and he doesn't do anything great. He can do it all ok, but nothing top notch. I'd almost prefer a Souray with great offense and bad defense for that money. Its good to have a few utility type defenders, but not 6.

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04-13-2010, 12:20 PM
  #83
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The Brooks article is spot on but he fails to point out that if that's going to be the course of action this team won't be worth watching (again) next season... and you may indeed reach a tilting point where Hank is either A) severly burned out or B) sick of being shelled in NY. This is not to suggest he would demand to be traded... but at some point the luster will wear off of being the teams hero night and and night out in close games that are still losses.

IMHO - Ridding this team of Redden in ANY WAY POSSIBLE should be priority #1

After that you can start changing this team.

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Old
04-13-2010, 12:20 PM
  #84
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1. Demote Redden

2. Trade Rozsival, Gilroy, & Voros

3. Promote Sanguinetti and/or McDonaugh

4. Sign a cheap 7th defenseman

5. Don't sign any non-Ranger FAs other than Kovalchuk unless they will come at a cheap price and short term.

6. Draft a goal scorer

7. Ochocinco or Auld = Backup. Lundqvist shouldn't play more than 65 games.

8. Brian Boyle, learn how to hit and fight or gtfo.

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Old
04-13-2010, 12:20 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
no offense but it is that easy to free up that much capspace.. grow some balls n drop redden to hartford, let jokinen walk.. .
Chalf - As you have read from my previous posts, I agree with you here. I think some expressed concern that this would deter potential free agents. Like I have posted above, you know my feeling about that. Go poison someone else's roster.

I think moving Rozsival and Gilroy for cap space is the challenge. Jokinen and Redden will clear space but I am fairly certain that you are taking salary back on a deal with Rozsival.

It should be an interesting off-season for sure.

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Old
04-13-2010, 12:21 PM
  #86
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Cool. Certainly is an NHL caliber defenseman. He could probably add some value to a team as a 3rd pairing (if his salary was lower). I would be a terrible GM because I think I'd be willing to let him play for another year, given the current situation. The defensemen most likely to be moved or gone are Girardi, Rozsival, and Sanguinetti. (I don't necessarily agree or want that, just my opinion given our situation).

Chalfdiggity3 - I agree with SinginBlues. I don't think you are trading Rozsival without getting a contract back. The thing here is it DOESN'T HAVE TO BE Souray. If Sather could get a 2nd line forward for him, I'd be pretty happy. Trading Rozsival for picks seems unlikely to me.

I also do not see Kovalchuk coming here. And to be honest, I wouldn't be disappointed with that. (unless he ends up on Long Island). I think we may have to sit tight and work with what we have. Maybe hope that Del Zotto and Gilroy improve after a year of experience. I tell you though. Although they aren't superstars. If they could let Prust and Avery play their games. I think I could live with that during a "rebuilding year".

Thats fine with me, then keep rosie for the next two years, idc, hes actually plays a top4 dman game, and is only one the books for 2 more years, exactly when drury comes off too.. could get a possible 11million off the books that year..

Gilroy im sure theyre are takers for but if we cant then keep him n hope he gets better but REDDEN NEEDS to be SENT down.. him and jokinen off the books makes a huge amount of capspace gone..around 12million.. resign prust, EC, Staal, Girardi.. prust-$750,000, same for EC... Staal 3.5million... girardi 2.25million.. spent 8million on them.. still have 4million left over..

i feel we need to find ways to take players off our cap who dont fit in long term.. and if we need to sign stop gaps for 1 year deals.. till our young players are ready to step up

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04-13-2010, 12:22 PM
  #87
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Stay the course? Really? Stay the course? That's fine if you like mediocrity.

Those of you who WANT TO "STAY THE COURSE" are only setting yourself up for dissapointment. You shouldn't fear change w/ the squad we have in place. We want changes. You have Henrik Lundqvist who isn't getting any younger and is playing the best hockey of his career. We should attempt to make a run soon while keeping our core in tact.

Erik Christensen, while being very good for us should not be anywhere near the "core" based on 1 season's performance. P.A. Parenteau is another. He has no business being labeled as the core of this team b/c of a handful of games. Matt Gilroy has no business playing in the NHL, nevermind being included in the core group of players on this team.

When you truely think about it, the core of this team really isn't many players. If I had to include the core of this team it would include: LUNDQVIST, STAAL, DEL ZOTTO, GABORIK, CALLAHAN, AVERY AND MAYBE...I REPEAT..MAYBE DUBINSKY & ANISIMOV. Prust may be working his way up there, but I'm no so sure you can tag him as a core player. He's more fitting as a periphery, as is shelley, as is rozsival etc. Every other name that Larry has listed are periphery players & no where near core players. These are those in the NHL, and not prospects who have yet made the big club.

With that said, This team lacks depth(especially scoring) big time and it needs to be adressed over the summer, but in a smart way. Sure excessive change season after season isn't good, but it wouldn't be necessary if what you have iced is actually functioning. Unfortunately for this Ranger team, it has not been functioning. We don't have a squad like detroit, chicago, pitsburgh, or new jersey to actually endorse a "stay the course policy". So Larry saying "There can be neither stability nor structure without continuity" cannot be any more wrong for this particular club & circumstances in play. Henrik Lundqvist will not allow it, and rightfully so. He wants an improved team and you know it. He wants the cup, and soon. You cannot keep frustrating this guy season in and out.

"There can be neither stability nor structure without continuity".... Do any of you remember the extreme make over the Flyers went through after that very poor season in 2006-2007? They were dead last in the east. Well in the off-season they rebuild that team, and yes in 1 summer. They aquired Kimmo Timmonen, Scott Hartnell, Jason Smith, Joffrey Lupul, Kukkonen, Coburn, Parent and the signing of Briere.

After the make over...what happened in the 2007-2008 season? The flyers amde the playoffs as the 6th seed with 95 points and made it ALL THE WAY TO THE EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS, only losing to the penguins.

It's possible to be contenders if you make a smart makeover over the summer. We cannot stay the course w/ this roster. I for one want us to somehow try for a couple if not more of the following: Aasen, Plekanec, Jagr, Volchenkov. I would say Kovalchuk, However that would be giving 7.5+ mill to 1 player when you can spread the money and add depth by aquiring more than 1 legit offesnive threat, neither of whom are bad players at all.

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Old
04-13-2010, 12:24 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post

no offense but it is that easy to free up that much capspace.. grow some balls n drop redden to hartford..
People really need to stop looking at the Redden situation as a fan and take more of a business viewpoint. Its not about "growing some balls" and dumping Redden into the minors. Its about flushing away 25 million dollars...thats real money, by the way, in case you were wondering.

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04-13-2010, 12:25 PM
  #89
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This team has been overhauled every single year. It's time to stay the course. If you can add Kovalchuk, bring him, otherwise wait for our youth like Grachev, Stepan, Kreider, McDonaugh, Sanguinetti, etc. to develop and let's see what they can do. IDK if any of them will be stars, but add one true star to the team if possible and let the rest take its course. I'm tired of having to learn all of the new guys names and numbers every October

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Old
04-13-2010, 12:26 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
People really need to stop looking at the Redden situation as a fan and take more of a business viewpoint. Its not about "growing some balls" and dumping Redden into the minors. Its about flushing away 25 million dollars...thats real money, by the way, in case you were wondering.
Let's see, flush away $25 million or lose more in playoff revenue because he's one of the main pieces holding this team back from bringing in that key player (like Kovalchuk) who can make this team a top team...

Sometimes it's better for long-term business to take a short-term loss

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04-13-2010, 12:46 PM
  #91
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This guy isn't some over the hill NHL'er. I understand that most Ranger fans don't consider him worth his contract, but Redden was once a respected top 5 blueliner and captain of his team.
Actually, his play dictates that is exactly who he is. What he was once and what he is now are two different things. At best, he is a hanging on # 6 defenseman.

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04-13-2010, 12:48 PM
  #92
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Dagoon - what do you think about Nicky Fotiu as a potential coach?
I love Fotiu and he did a fantastic job as coach in the AHL already but if seems the Rangers have no plans to ever allow him to be a coach in NY. With him not ever getting the Rangers job he really shouldn't coach the pack. The pack coach needs to be able to step right into NY as a full time head coach. James Patrick really is a great choice

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04-13-2010, 12:58 PM
  #93
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Let's see, flush away $25 million or lose more in playoff revenue because he's one of the main pieces holding this team back from bringing in that key player (like Kovalchuk) who can make this team a top team...

Sometimes it's better for long-term business to take a short-term loss
Sure if you know for certain the team won't make the playoffs next season.

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04-13-2010, 01:02 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
no offense but it is that easy to free up that much capspace.. grow some balls n drop redden to hartford, let jokinen walk.. basically 13million released there. rosie has played well enough to find takers, such as a young solid team looking for help on the defensive side and has capspace like florida. you cant tell me no1 would take rosie. Gilroy yes he doesnt have a ton of trade value, but hes still very young and you can atleast get a solid pick for him..
It's easy to say waive Redden because it's not our 23 million. Doesn't mean Sather is going to do it. Jokinen walking gives us enough money to replace him for cheap and re-sign Staal and Girardi. We'd still need a replacement for Redden. We'd still need a replacement for Prospal. Waiving Redden doesn't give us as much money as you think.

Trading Rozy is a possibility, but there's a good chance we'll have to take some salary back.

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04-13-2010, 01:10 PM
  #95
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...Stay the course. Do not engage in yet another extreme makeover that would see the roster turned over for the third straight summer. There can be neither stability nor structure without continuity....
The day NYR heeds these words is the day they start climbing upward. Hopefully for NYR fans, they will.

An NHL roster should not be confused with a fantasy league roster. It cannot be revised en mass annually with shiny exciting mercenary names from elsewhere. Changes need to be made. But the urge to over-manipulate every July 1st should be resisted.

Just an outsider's opinion.


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04-13-2010, 01:21 PM
  #96
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You "stay the course" guys really have little idea of the dearth of talent there is on this team. Most NYR fans are in love with Callahan and Dubinksy, but these are borderline 2nd/3rd line players and you just can't compete with the Pens, Caps, Devs, Flyers (etc) when these are your untouchables. I'm a big fan of these 2 kids, but until they become "secondary" players on the NYR, you're looking at more seasons of fighting for the 8th spot and losing badly in the first round (if they make it to the playoffs). Is this acceptable?

To me, the Rangers have NO untouchables. In fact, I'm not against trading Hank to bolster the offensive talent level. Then go out and find an average NHL goalie and try to win 4-3 games instead of 2-1. Last time I checked, you didn't need a superstar goalie to make the playoffs.

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04-13-2010, 01:45 PM
  #97
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You "stay the course" guys really have little idea of the dearth of talent there is on this team.
Just an observation...

One reads this ^^^ every spring on the NYR board.

Then, come July 1st, like clockwork, NYR springs for big name, big $$$ saviors to rectify the issue.

Then the next spring comes around and those mercenaries bought from other teams are the topic of underachievement and disappointment. This has been the case for the most part since the late 1990s.

Seems to me that you have a solid pipeline and some dead weight. Why not focus on allowing the young talent to develop and try to rid the deadweight, if possible? Not replacing it with more of the same (bloated shiny UFA contracts).

But feel free to endorse repeating the approach that, for the most part, has been the M.O. of the Sather era. Just remember Einstein's definition of insanity.

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04-13-2010, 01:52 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Just an observation...

One reads this ^^^ every spring on the NYR board.

Then, come July 1st, like clockwork, NYR springs for big name, big $$$ saviors to rectify the issue.

Then the next spring comes around and those mercenaries bought from other teams are the topic of underachievement and disappointment. This has been the case for the most part since the late 1990s.

Seems to me that you have a solid pipeline and some dead weight. Why not focus on allowing the young talent to develop and try to rid the deadweight, if possible? Not replacing it with more of the same (bloated shiny UFA contracts).

But feel free to endorse repeating the approach that, for the most part, has been the M.O. of the Sather era. Just remember Einstein's definition of insanity.
Do you realize why we've never stayed the course? It's the product that is assembled season after season, or the product we fail to keep season after season. If we had a legit contending team w/ pieces in place we wouldnt be going through these make overs year after year. Sather neeeds to go.

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04-13-2010, 01:55 PM
  #99
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I don't mind the idea of the Rangers bringing in another top 4 d-man or players like Prospal or Christensen back as short term fixes but they need to control the costs and need to control the contracts--no long term NTC's or NMC's. This team is at least two-three years away from being a serious contender which can be said for just about any other non playoff team. They need to get away from the bad contracts they already have on the books and not add to them with others and in the meantime continue to develop their prospects some of whom look like they will be very good--possible long term solutions.

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04-13-2010, 02:46 PM
  #100
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You "stay the course" guys really have little idea of the dearth of talent there is on this team.
No, we understand exactly how little talent this team has. But we also understand the cap problems this team has and that adding a player such as Kovy will 1) make our cap problems worse and 2) not help us enough to make us a contender.

It is in our best interest to do whatever we can to fix our cap problems before we look to spend big in free agency. If we don't, be prepared to lose RFAs in the coming years.

Boston was forced to trade Kessel because they didn't properly manage their cap. Look how far they have fallen in just 1 year. Do we want to trade MDZ when he becomes RFA because we don't have the money to pay him?

We can pay the price now and fix our problems, or we can keep signing free agents to long term contracts and make our problems worse.

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