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A defense of Redden (Sorta, I wish he were gone)

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Old
04-13-2010, 01:16 PM
  #26
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People would be slightly more tolerant of Redden if he actually showed effort on the ice.

Drury works is ass off. He just isnt a goal scorer anymore.

Rozsival slumps and lacks footspeed, but he will work guys right the **** over in the corners, and looks like he cares, which doesnt surprise me considering he's been on the team longer than anyone else.

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04-13-2010, 01:22 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
People would be slightly more tolerant of Redden if he actually showed effort on the ice.

Drury works is ass off. He just isnt a goal scorer anymore.

Rozsival slumps and lacks footspeed, but he will work guys right the **** over in the corners, and looks like he cares, which doesnt surprise me considering he's been on the team longer than anyone else.
Its the same as Renney, he cares he just doesn't knock over walls so it appears 100% obvious to the ticket payers what his every thought is.

Again, and you've played at a high level, would your teammates just sit around and let a guy just call it in? Especially at the pro level where livelihoods are involved? NO WAY. If Redden didn't try he'd be an outcast and would be in Marbury territory.

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04-13-2010, 01:23 PM
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That OP is WAAAAAAY too long for a simple subject. Wade Redden is overpaid by 5 million + dollars. He is slow and terrible defensively. He has no offense left in him. He is not motivated and does not seem to care. The guy is done as an NHL player and has steadily and drastically decline the past 5 years. The only solution is to bury him in Hartford. Money is no issue here, its all on Sather's pride. If you fire Sather, say good bye to Wade.

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04-13-2010, 01:24 PM
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Im not talking about knocking down walls. I rarely if ever will criticism effort. But there were several occasions this year in which Redden simply let skaters beat him without pushing them, or lost puck battles with little to no intensity.

The one redeeming factor I see, was how pissed he was when he was scratched. Thats all.

Dolan needs to understand we're better off not even replacing his salary and having a rookie dman in that spot than continuing to have Reds on this squad.

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04-13-2010, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Its the same as Renney, he cares he just doesn't knock over walls so it appears 100% obvious to the ticket payers what his every thought is.

Again, and you've played at a high level, would your teammates just sit around and let a guy just call it in? Especially at the pro level where livelihoods are involved? NO WAY. If Redden didn't try he'd be an outcast and would be in Marbury territory.
No, not at all. This is a terrible analogy. Renney did not get pissed when we lost. He was level headed and people didn't like that when we started to lose last season.

Redden doesnt seem to try. There is a difference between not trying and not caring.

And if you think Redden put 100% effort in every night you clearly have not been watching.

Also half the team did not try on many nights this season. Why would he be an outcast when the others were in the same boat? How do you know he's not an outcast anyway?

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04-13-2010, 01:41 PM
  #31
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No, not at all. This is a terrible analogy. Renney did not get pissed when we lost. He was level headed and people didn't like that when we started to lose last season.

Redden doesnt seem to try. There is a difference between not trying and not caring.

And if you think Redden put 100% effort in every night you clearly have not been watching.

Also half the team did not try on many nights this season. Why would he be an outcast when the others were in the same boat? How do you know he's not an outcast anyway?
Half the team "didn't try"? Are you 5 yrs old or what?

When your team is not talented enough it may APPEAR that they are not trying.

Again, see what happens at your work when someone doesn't make an effort. It brings everyone down and that worker will not last. Same applies for pro sports, if you're just calling it in your teammates won't stand for it and you'd be blasted and they wouldn't hold back. There are guys in our locker room who don't fool around, theres no way Redden could get away with calling it in and still be playing for this club.

But yeah, Its my fault, I haven't been watching

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04-13-2010, 01:46 PM
  #32
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To put it simply, if Wade Redden made the money of a 3rd pairing defenseman, at most $2mil a year, I'd be OK with him coming back next year. But he needs to go, there should be no debate about it.

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04-13-2010, 01:56 PM
  #33
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All they need to do is give him an ultimatum.


A)Retire. return to the league on Another team with a realistic contract. It was nice knowing you. It's sad it didn't work out. Good luck.

B)Play in front of 100-150 a night down in Hartford. Still get paid the big bucks. He will mentor our young guys. It's actually a bonus if we did this... lol.

If I am Redden, I choose option A. He has a lot of money. I know the more money the better but "For the love of the game". Nothing is more exhilarating than playing ice hockey.

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04-13-2010, 02:00 PM
  #34
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So am I defending Redden? Kind of. His signing was a disaster that will impact the team for years. I wish it never happened and wish we didn't have him to kick around anymore. But I do think that even in his diminished role, he has a part to play. Dismiss the money from his situation (I know, we really can't do that) and evaluate him honestly. Don't give him an automatic F on your end of year report cards simply because of cannot do what once came so easily (I would give him either a C or C-). Try to understand that hockey players are not simply artificial constructs we see on television or in person at the Garden, but flesh and blood people. Every career has an arc to it: the fault here was that Ranger management signed Redden for outlandish bucks when the arc was trending downward.
This is the essence of the thread.

No one wants him here but he's here and he has tried, the fault is on Sather.

Again, unmercifully attacking Redden is like going after the cow cause the butcher sold ya some expensive bad meat.

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04-13-2010, 03:19 PM
  #35
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My first reaction to this signing:

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I calmed down a bit. Took a breath. Refreshed the website. Then took a look at the numbers.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

There isn't a detail in Wade's current game, that stands out. Nothing. He skates slower than Dale Purinton. That chick who was shooting for a million bucks on center ice shoots harder than Wade. He's not aggressive. He's not smart. He's not skilled. He was supposed to help our PP with his crisp passing, but his pink shot and lack of creativeness, and confidence with the puck makes him easy to defend against.

He is the most pathetic player on this roster, and removing him from the line-up is step #1 in repairing this Rangers team.

Without a doubt, the worst contract in this entire mother****ing league. Thank Sather though, for buying a used dictionary and spending premium money that he's proved over and over he doesn't know how to manage.

FUBAR.

We have every single reason to despise the loser. We pay his contract.

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04-13-2010, 03:27 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
My first reaction to this signing:

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I calmed down a bit. Took a breath. Refreshed the website. Then took a look at the numbers.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

There isn't a detail in Wade's current game, that stands out. Nothing. He skates slower than Dale Purinton. That chick who was shooting for a million bucks on center ice shoots harder than Wade. He's not aggressive. He's not smart. He's not skilled. He was supposed to help our PP with his crisp passing, but his pink shot and lack of creativeness, and confidence with the puck makes him easy to defend against.

He is the most pathetic player on this roster, and removing him from the line-up is step #1 in repairing this Rangers team.

Without a doubt, the worst contract in this entire mother****ing league. Thank Sather though, for buying a used dictionary and spending premium money that he's proved over and over he doesn't know how to manage.

FUBAR.

We have every single reason to despise the loser. We pay his contract.
And who pays us? And who pays our payers? Can we bring it all back to God and blame him?

BTW, we're also paying Sather's contract if you want to believe you pay anyone's salary, that one would be the most undeserved out of them all.

And again, a guy who has made a career playing hockey and at one time an all star, is hardly a loser.

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04-13-2010, 03:51 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
All they need to do is give him an ultimatum.


A)Retire. return to the league on Another team with a realistic contract. It was nice knowing you. It's sad it didn't work out. Good luck.

B)Play in front of 100-150 a night down in Hartford. Still get paid the big bucks. He will mentor our young guys. It's actually a bonus if we did this... lol.

If I am Redden, I choose option A. He has a lot of money. I know the more money the better but "For the love of the game". Nothing is more exhilarating than playing ice hockey.
A) You cannot just "retire" and then return to the league with another contract. Just because you go "oh I'm retiring, so my contract is null now, but I'll just resign elsewhere" no it doesn't work like that. If he "retires" and then wants to play in the NHL again, he is still technically under contract to us (unfortunately). The same applied to Naslund which is why he went to Sweden. If Naslund wanted to play in the NHL again, he'd have to play for the Rangers and his cap hit would go back on the books.

The only way I see him "retiring" is if he's promised another job within the organization in return for forfeiting the remaining money on the contract.

B) I'd love him to be waived and moved to Hartford but let's consider some things here. One, there is a salary cap in the AHL believe it or not, and Redden's cap hit would take up almost the entire space allotted to AHL teams. I don't know the numbers so a Wolf Pack expert is needed to help me out here. Two, Jimmy Dolan will not be happy he is paying ~24mil for a guy to play in the AHL. Sather will need to do some serious convincing to Dolan on the lines of "you will make that money back in the long run if we can put a better product on the ice in the short term" and that involves admitting he made a mistake. A tough scenario either way you look at it.

Do I think he will be in Hartford next year? Partly yes. I don't think Torts wants him on the team for next season and he will pressure Sather about it. But on the other hand, unless Reddens skills decrease yet further this off season, I'm not sure how Sather will budge on this. Dolan is already probably pissed at him, not sure how much a "buddy" can take.

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04-13-2010, 03:52 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
And who pays us? And who pays our payers? Can we bring it all back to God and blame him?

BTW, we're also paying Sather's contract if you want to believe you pay anyone's salary, that one would be the most undeserved out of them all.

And again, a guy who has made a career playing hockey and at one time an all star, is hardly a loser.
Redden was a winner.

Now, he's a loser. A rich one, with a hot wifey.

Edit: That makes him a winner.

ReEdit: That makes me, a loser.

MotherOfAllEdits: FML

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04-13-2010, 03:53 PM
  #39
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So what do you want from me?

To not hate Redden? Can't help ya. Sorry.

To not speculate about how to get what is widely regarded as THE WORST CONTRACT IN THE NHL off this team? Again. Sorry.

To not hate Sather for thrusting this albatross on our backs? NO WAY.

What then? I'm not going to feel sorry for a guy who's played a sport his whole life and is only now realizing that money can't buy time.

He's lived a great life, has a hot wife and more money than Christ.

He is THE biggest problem on the team that I love and have very little else to hang my hat on...

SO what is it that you want from me?

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04-13-2010, 04:02 PM
  #40
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So what do you want from me?

To not hate Redden? Can't help ya. Sorry.

To not speculate about how to get what is widely regarded as THE WORST CONTRACT IN THE NHL off this team? Again. Sorry.

To not hate Sather for thrusting this albatross on our backs? NO WAY.

What then? I'm not going to feel sorry for a guy who's played a sport his whole life and is only now realizing that money can't buy time.

He's lived a great life, has a hot wife and more money than Christ.

He is THE biggest problem on the team that I love and have very little else to hang my hat on...

SO what is it that you want from me?
I'd be happy if our fans just stopped booing any of our players when they do something right. No matter what your gripe is, its does no one involved in the organization any good when you single one or two players out and boo them when they do something right just cause you hate their contract. Its excessive and selfish.

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04-13-2010, 04:51 PM
  #41
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A) You cannot just "retire" and then return to the league with another contract. Just because you go "oh I'm retiring, so my contract is null now, but I'll just resign elsewhere" no it doesn't work like that. If he "retires" and then wants to play in the NHL again, he is still technically under contract to us (unfortunately). The same applied to Naslund which is why he went to Sweden. If Naslund wanted to play in the NHL again, he'd have to play for the Rangers and his cap hit would go back on the books.

The only way I see him "retiring" is if he's promised another job within the organization in return for forfeiting the remaining money on the contract.

B) I'd love him to be waived and moved to Hartford but let's consider some things here. One, there is a salary cap in the AHL believe it or not, and Redden's cap hit would take up almost the entire space allotted to AHL teams. I don't know the numbers so a Wolf Pack expert is needed to help me out here. Two, Jimmy Dolan will not be happy he is paying ~24mil for a guy to play in the AHL. Sather will need to do some serious convincing to Dolan on the lines of "you will make that money back in the long run if we can put a better product on the ice in the short term" and that involves admitting he made a mistake. A tough scenario either way you look at it.

Do I think he will be in Hartford next year? Partly yes. I don't think Torts wants him on the team for next season and he will pressure Sather about it. But on the other hand, unless Reddens skills decrease yet further this off season, I'm not sure how Sather will budge on this. Dolan is already probably pissed at him, not sure how much a "buddy" can take.
While you are right about how Redden can't retire and just come back if he is sent to Hartford he can choose not to report leading to him being cut from the team.

This allows him to come off the books completely and resign as a free agent with any team he chooses.

Obviously he will not retire and hopefully next season he will either be sent to hartford not report or report there.

Honestly I don't see him back next year and unfortunately, Brashear will still impact our cap space with that 1.4 Mil hit.

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04-13-2010, 04:55 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I'd be happy if our fans just stopped booing any of our players when they do something right. No matter what your gripe is, its does no one involved in the organization any good when you single one or two players out and boo them when they do something right just cause you hate their contract. Its excessive and selfish.
This is wrong. Many of us pay money to go to the games including myself who has had season tickets for 10 years now. I love the Rangers but hate there management.

Furthermore, he is boo'd because of his piss poor play not because of his contract. Ozolinsh, Malik, Brashear etc....these guys were also constantly boo'd because of there poor play and not there contracts.

You come to New York, your expected to perform, it's like that with any NY team. Randy Johnson on the Yankees, Marbury on the Knicks you are paid big bucks to come here and put up numbers and the players know that they will have to handle the media and fans if they do not.

Its part of there job live with it or quit. I'd take 7 mil to get boo'd and play hockey for a living and im sure you would also.

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04-13-2010, 05:18 PM
  #43
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This is wrong. Many of us pay money to go to the games including myself who has had season tickets for 10 years now. I love the Rangers but hate there management.

Furthermore, he is boo'd because of his piss poor play not because of his contract. Ozolinsh, Malik, Brashear etc....these guys were also constantly boo'd because of there poor play and not there contracts.

You come to New York, your expected to perform, it's like that with any NY team. Randy Johnson on the Yankees, Marbury on the Knicks you are paid big bucks to come here and put up numbers and the players know that they will have to handle the media and fans if they do not.

Its part of there job live with it or quit. I'd take 7 mil to get boo'd and play hockey for a living and im sure you would also.
You pay $100 plus(conservative est.) over 40 games a year and spend the whole time booing a guy who could give a **** what you think of him as he goes home to his mansion, and I'M the one who has a problem.

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04-13-2010, 05:20 PM
  #44
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Players know what they are getting into on NY teams. It isn't a secret that New York fans are some of the most ruthless (see passionate) fans when it comes to performance whether it be on a baseball field, a basketball court, a football field, or a hockey rink. If you ***k up, you will hear about it. If you do something good, you will hear about it.

Redden and other players who have lost the fan's favor (or never had it to begin with) should be happy and feel lucky that hockey isn't the #1 or #2 sport in this city. If this was the Yankees, he would've been chased out of town already.

When we pay the kind of money we do (like Leafs fans, Habs fans, etc.) just to watch our team play live in front of us, we have the right to be grumpy and unforgiving when the on ice performance isn't up to our expectations. That's life in a big city for you.

Drury doesn't get booed like Redden does and his contract is just as bad. The NY fans accept that his contract sucks and that he isn't going to get any better offensively, but they see his effort giving up the body and doing all the little things like winning key faceoffs and that's why he is applauded. Compare that to Redden who you rarely see go that extra mile and it's pretty clear why people boo him.

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04-13-2010, 05:24 PM
  #45
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A) You cannot just "retire" and then return to the league with another contract. Just because you go "oh I'm retiring, so my contract is null now, but I'll just resign elsewhere" no it doesn't work like that. If he "retires" and then wants to play in the NHL again, he is still technically under contract to us (unfortunately). The same applied to Naslund which is why he went to Sweden. If Naslund wanted to play in the NHL again, he'd have to play for the Rangers and his cap hit would go back on the books.

The only way I see him "retiring" is if he's promised another job within the organization in return for forfeiting the remaining money on the contract.
Are you sure about this? From what I understood once he retires, he could come back (In the off season...which is now) and sign for another team (Can't resign with the same team) for a new contract.

Or maybe there was an incubation period of one year. I'm not quite sure. Can anyone confirm this?

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04-13-2010, 05:25 PM
  #46
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Players know what they are getting into on NY teams. It isn't a secret that New York fans are some of the most ruthless (see passionate) fans when it comes to performance whether it be on a baseball field, a basketball court, a football field, or a hockey rink. If you **** up, you will hear about it. If you do something good, you will hear about it.

Redden and other players who have lost the fan's favor (or never had it to begin with) should be happy and feel lucky that hockey isn't the #1 or #2 sport in this city. If this was the Yankees, he would've been chased out of town already.

When we pay the kind of money we do (like Leafs fans, Habs fans, etc.) just to watch our team play live in front of us, we have the right to be grumpy and unforgiving when the on ice performance isn't up to our expectations. That's life in a big city for you.
If this were the Yankees we wouldn't have this problem. That organization can scout talent and it shows.

Again, you are paying Cablevision/MSG your money. Ya know, those suits who are the brains that also said lets sign Wade Redden to a long term high salary.

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04-13-2010, 05:26 PM
  #47
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Players know what they are getting into on NY teams. It isn't a secret that New York fans are some of the most ruthless (see passionate) fans when it comes to performance whether it be on a baseball field, a basketball court, a football field, or a hockey rink. If you ***k up, you will hear about it. If you do something good, you will hear about it.

Redden and other players who have lost the fan's favor (or never had it to begin with) should be happy and feel lucky that hockey isn't the #1 or #2 sport in this city. If this was the Yankees, he would've been chased out of town already.

When we pay the kind of money we do (like Leafs fans, Habs fans, etc.) just to watch our team play live in front of us, we have the right to be grumpy and unforgiving when the on ice performance isn't up to our expectations. That's life in a big city for you.

Drury doesn't get booed like Redden does and his contract is just as bad. The NY fans accept that his contract sucks and that he isn't going to get any better offensively, but they see his effort giving up the body and doing all the little things like winning key faceoffs and that's why he is applauded. Compare that to Redden who you rarely see go that extra mile and it's pretty clear why people boo him.
I don't know if I would put it like that. I'm sure Redden tries hard... I mean I would if the latter was getting Boo'ed every night. He is a hockey player and I'm sure he tries as hard as anyone on the ice and off. It's just his skills don't allow him to do that. In other words,
I don't think effort is the reason as to why he is not excepted among the community.

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04-13-2010, 05:27 PM
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Are you sure about this? From what I understood once he retires, he could come back (In the off season...which is now) and sign for another team (Can't resign with the same team) for a new contract.

Or maybe there was an incubation period of one year. I'm not quite sure. Can anyone confirm this?
I know for a fact you cannot just say you are retiring and then come back to sign with a different team. Otherwise, people would abuse the system and I guarantee the CBA has the provision to cover this. If you have 2 years remaining on your contract and you retire this year, you cannot resign with another team for those two years -- you would have to play for the signing team until that term is up.

Another poster mentioned a loophole that is true to my knowledge as well -- if you are demoted to the AHL and don't show up for training or whatever, that voids the contract and you become a UFA immediately. That is probably the only way you can get out of a contract without a buyout.

I am too lazy to look up the NHL CBA rules but I promise it's in there -- people brought this up when Naslund retired last year.

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04-13-2010, 05:33 PM
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I don't know if I would put it like that. I'm sure Redden tries hard... I mean I would if the latter was getting Boo'ed every night. He is a hockey player and I'm sure he tries as hard as anyone on the ice and off. It's just his skills don't allow him to do that. In other words,
I don't think effort is the reason as to why he is not excepted among the community.
The skills don't allow him to do that? What skills? It doesn't take a lot to hit somebody once in awhile, to use your body to get them off the puck.

Drury is suffering from the equivalent skill deterioration (as a forward) as Redden is as a defenseman. Drury isn't too fast, or too physical anymore, but he uses what he has and stands in front of 100 mph slapshots without thinking twice about it. Aging vet or not, it takes courage and dedication to your team to do that. (By the way I am not really a fan of Drury either, but I recognize his sacrifices).

You are saying Redden tries but don't give any evidence of that... when he's on the ice he is as effective as a pylon. If you can't skate that fast, you can at least try and clear the crease (which doesn't require much skating ability) or lay down the body to block a shot if you lose your man. I rarely if ever see this. I know he isn't a physical guy historically but I don't think Drury blocked shots as much as he does now in his heyday either. Doesn't stop him now.


Last edited by Carl Hagelins Flow: 04-13-2010 at 05:43 PM. Reason: spelling
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04-13-2010, 05:50 PM
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Bugz
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Sather must talk to Redden, giving him 3 options :

1 - you want to play hockey : I send you to Hartford, you refuse, the contract is broken, you can sign with any other team.

2 - you want the money : you'll be healthy scrath until the end of your contract. You'll never play another minute as a Ranger.

3 - you want both : I send you to Hartford, where you'll be able to play hockey at your level.

Then we'll see if he's still a hockey player or if he plays hockey just to earn big money...

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