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Wht Not Have Prust/Shelley/Weise/Byers as the bottom four wingers?

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04-13-2010, 04:51 PM
  #1
White Plains Batman
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Wht Not Have Prust/Shelley/Weise/Byers as the bottom four wingers?

Hey All,

As per Torts comments today about getting younger, how would you all feel about those 4 gentlemen as the bottom 4 wingers for the team?

Before anybody says no right away; here's my logic.

-The 3rd and 4th line was pretty erratic all season. The only time they really got going was when the 4th line was formed for the last stretch of the season.

There's no reason Weise and Prust can't hit at least 10-15 goals each, and it'd be a very cheap bottom four to concentrate on getting some affordable secondary scoring (Frolov? Trade for Sharpe or dare I Say Bfugylien? Kariaya or Demitra for one year?)

These 4 would be aggressive forecheck cyclers and play that gritty style of hockey similar to what the Rangers had in 05-06 with the HMO line and the Betts/Ward Law Firm with Nimmenin or Hossa.

We've already seen what Anisimov can do playing with two grinders, he can start the season on the 3rd line and work his way up to 2nd line duty, and Drury should be fine with two as well and his PKing duties.

While the best offense is a defense, the most underrated defense in hockey is dump and chase pounding the other teams D and cycling them to fatigue.

Thoughts?

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04-13-2010, 04:55 PM
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Because then Avery and Callahan are 2nd line wingers, and thats hardly a stanley-cup lineup.

I have no problem with Weise making the team next year but one of those four should be an extra forward if anything.

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04-13-2010, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Because then Avery and Callahan are 2nd line wingers, and thats hardly a stanley-cup lineup.

I have no problem with Weise making the team next year but one of those four should be an extra forward if anything.
I have no problem with Cally as a 2nd line winger. He's fine at that and will give them 20G-20A range.

Honestly, I want Avery off this team. I'm in the minority by far but he doesn't gel with any lines, is offsides every other shift and I don't understand what he meant today by he didn't know how he was supposed to play. He's gonna be 30 and has been an NHLer for long enough, he knows his game. He's never scored 20 goals, and got 18 once. Esa Tikkanen has more talent in his beat up JOFA helmet by the time he was a Panther than Avery does.

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04-13-2010, 05:15 PM
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I semi-agree, but prepare to be flamed if anyone notices this post on Avery.

Ive fought this fight before and aint doing it again.

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04-13-2010, 05:17 PM
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Anisimov needs more offensive talent on his wings.

I'd have no problem with a third line next year of Avery - Anisimov - Weise

followed by a fourth line of Byers - Boyle - Prust but with that means Drury is getting top 6 minutes...

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04-13-2010, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I semi-agree, but prepare to be flamed if anyone notices this post on Avery.

Ive fought this fight before and aint doing it again.
I would be okay with Avery not being here anymore if there was a player who could replicate his numbers ready to play.

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04-13-2010, 05:21 PM
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In an ideal world, I find some way to get Bfugylien from Chicago over here with all of their cap problems and pair him with Anisimov and one of those guys like Prust/Weise/etc. If Grachev is ready to play LW, all the better but he almost definitely needs another year in Hartford.

However, I think Artem starts the year as the third line center (he can work his way up to 2nd) and Drury at the 4th.

Boyle seems like a good dude, but I wouldn't want to being him back. Try and get anything for him, 5th, 7th rounder, maybe they find another Hagelin.

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04-13-2010, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I would be okay with Avery not being here anymore if there was a player who could replicate his numbers ready to play.
You take away the game against the Flyers and Stars and Avery's number aren't that much better than Prust.

Keep Shelly and have a team with Weise, Byers, Prust, and one nasty Dman, they'll be fine.

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04-13-2010, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I would be okay with Avery not being here anymore if there was a player who could replicate his numbers ready to play.
of course not, but that player isn't there.

Quote:
You take away the game against the Flyers and Stars and Avery's number aren't that much better than Prust.
take away a week of the season and Prust's numbers are non-existent.

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04-13-2010, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
You take away the game against the Flyers and Stars and Avery's number aren't that much better than Prust.

Keep Shelly and have a team with Weise, Byers, Prust, and one nasty Dman, they'll be fine.
I would like to acquire Versteeg or Byfuglien. Both players would fit in well here.

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04-13-2010, 05:36 PM
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If you all want to see the Blackhawks cap situation, here you go;

http://www.capgeek.com/cap_calculator.php?Team=11

If you thought the Rangers had cap issues........

Sharpe (most likely)/Versteeg/Bolland/Byfuglien(least likely); one of these four men will be traded and traded for less than value (think when the Rangers got Ruccin)

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04-13-2010, 05:38 PM
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Brian Boyle
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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
If you thought the Rangers had cap issues........
most of Chicago's cap is tied up in good players, however.

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04-13-2010, 06:03 PM
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Great idea...if we are willing to tank from the start of the season.

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04-13-2010, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
I have no problem with Cally as a 2nd line winger. He's fine at that and will give them 20G-20A range.

Honestly, I want Avery off this team. I'm in the minority by far but he doesn't gel with any lines, is offsides every other shift and I don't understand what he meant today by he didn't know how he was supposed to play. He's gonna be 30 and has been an NHLer for long enough, he knows his game. He's never scored 20 goals, and got 18 once. Esa Tikkanen has more talent in his beat up JOFA helmet by the time he was a Panther than Avery does.
I wouldn't go so far as to say I want him off of the team, but I see where you're coming from. He has to lead the elague in offsides per TOI. Honestly though, I saw some chemistry between him and Anisimov, but Lisin was often the third musketeer on that line. Replace Lisin with Prust and you may have an improvement using Avery instead of Shelley.

I would let Shelley walk, and run with Avery - Artie - Prust as a 3rd/4th line. Ideally (as someone else stated) if we could get a 4th or 5th rounder for Boyle, I would do it and have Byers - Drury - Weise as the other 3rd/4th line.

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04-13-2010, 06:30 PM
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On a good team, Callahan is a third liner.

I've never argued Avery is essential to the team. Find me a way to get rid of him? A realistic one. We can't trade him, he won't be bought out, he'd never be waived.

As for the notion that "there's no reason" why Prust and Weise can't score 10-15 each, well, yeah...there is a reason: they haven't. Have people seriously not learned by now to not just assume that guys can produce career numbers? Weise has zero games. Prust had a good week. Really? Now they're third liners scoring 15 goals?

EDIT: Jeez, you said at least 10-15 goals. Seriously? Prepare to be immensely disappointed if those are your expectations for those guys.

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04-13-2010, 06:56 PM
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For some reason I don't think they are very high on Byers. Prust and Shelley should be the wings for Boyle on the 4th line with Prust being moved up from time to time and Boyle on the PK

Anisimov needs 2nd line C minutes and Callahan and a FA/Trade Winger. Prospal maybe if he comes cheap

First line can keep Dubinsky and Gaborik but they need a C for them. No clue who but Perhaps Plekanec if the price is right

Avery, Christiensen, Drury for the 3rd line

Voros is a bumb but he likely does get the bench spot cause he is a good teammate

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04-13-2010, 07:22 PM
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The problem with this roster is we have too many third-liners:
Avery, Callahan, Drury, Christensen, and Anisimov.

We can't just move two of them up to the top-six, dust our hands off, and pat each other on the back. There's a reason why we lacked offense this year and it's because we had 3rd line talent scattered in our top-six. Here's a championship-caliber roster:

[1st line LW] - [1st line C] - Gaborik
Prospal - Dubinsky - [2nd line RW]
Callahan - Anisimov - Drury
Avery - Christensen - Prust/Shelley

Staal - [1A Defenseman]
MDZ - [Stay at Home Bruiser]
Girardi - Sang/Gilroy/McDonagh/Sauer

Lundqvist
Auld

With Rozsival and Redden off the books, it's possible. I just don't see it happening though.

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04-13-2010, 07:33 PM
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See many people say that avery doesn't belong in the top 6, i completely disagree i think him playing in the top 6 will only help him and his linemates. if you watch the rangers as most of us do you notice that avery is a great yes i said great, passer. I think if he were to play with more finishers we'd see his assists sky rocket. Also, the way he controls the puck and plays the boards only would open ice for better players. If I were Torts i'd start the season off with avery on a line with gaborik, I really think it would work out very favorably.

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04-13-2010, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
See many people say that avery doesn't belong in the top 6, i completely disagree i think him playing in the top 6 will only help him and his linemates. if you watch the rangers as most of us do you notice that avery is a great yes i said great, passer. I think if he were to play with more finishers we'd see his assists sky rocket. Also, the way he controls the puck and plays the boards only would open ice for better players. If I were Torts i'd start the season off with avery on a line with gaborik, I really think it would work out very favorably.
If you put Avery in the top-six, and especially with Gaborik, he can't do what he does best, which is be a pest. He would have a duty to try to produce offense or he's just getting in the way of his line mates. In my opinion, he's not good enough in the other aspects of the game to focus solely on offensive production. I say keep him on the third line where he can be an annoying SOB, not hurt his line mates, and chip in from time to time.

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04-13-2010, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
See many people say that avery doesn't belong in the top 6, i completely disagree i think him playing in the top 6 will only help him and his linemates. if you watch the rangers as most of us do you notice that avery is a great yes i said great, passer. I think if he were to play with more finishers we'd see his assists sky rocket. Also, the way he controls the puck and plays the boards only would open ice for better players. If I were Torts i'd start the season off with avery on a line with gaborik, I really think it would work out very favorably.
I disagree completely. You might be clouded by his spin-o-rama pass to Drury vs. Dallas, but to me Avery is not a great passer. His hands are average at best, and his hockey sense is horrible. I've never seen anyone so insistent on playing the puck BACK into his own zone when it's 3/4 of the way up the wall and frankly, from that point, it needs to move forward and get out of the zone. It infuriates me to no end.

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04-13-2010, 07:49 PM
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I'm fine with that 4 some

Dubinsky - ??? - Gaborik
Prospal - Christensen - Callahan
Avery - Anisimov - Drury
Prust - Boyle - Byers/Weist/Shelley

Staal - Rozsival
MDZ - ???
Sanguinetti - Sauer

Lundqvist
Auld

EX: Shelley/Weist, Voros, Eriksson

EDIT: It's been proven already that Christensen's game is not that of a bottom 6 player. So, if you drop him to the bottom 6, there's no point in retaining him in the first place.


Last edited by SouvenirCity: 04-13-2010 at 07:54 PM.
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Old
04-13-2010, 08:31 PM
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Avery was great after he got benched. He was back to agitating, drawing penalties and really good on the forecheck. If he plays like that the entire year he will be very effective. And he finished with 31 points which is good for a 3rd line player.

Byers is a 4th line player and Weise does have potential to be a 3rd liner. But to expect both of them to score 15 goals there rookie years would be silly. Anisimov only scored 12 this year and he is way more skilled.

You cant start Byers or Weise on any line besides the 4th line and if Prust and Shelley are coming back then they probably wont be a spot for either of them on the team next year. Rangers already have plenty of 3rd liners, Drury, Anisimov(he still has to prove he is ready to play in the top 6), Parenteau(who Torts seem to like), Avery, Christensen, and even Callahan.

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Old
04-13-2010, 08:37 PM
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Honestly i want boyle gone

I would like the 3rd and 4th lines to look like this

Avery-Anisimov-Prust
Shelley-Drury-Byers/Weise

Those are two pretty tough lines and potential scoring threats

They would also be inexpensive lines (minus Drury)

This would leave the first two lines something ideally like

Dubinsky-????-Gaborik
?????-Christensen-Callahan

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04-13-2010, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
Honestly i want boyle gone

I would like the 3rd and 4th lines to look like this

Avery-Anisimov-Prust
Shelley-Drury-Byers/Weise

Those are two pretty tough lines and potential scoring threats

They would also be inexpensive lines (minus Drury)

This would leave the first two lines something ideally like

Dubinsky-????-Gaborik
?????-Christensen-Callahan
Ideally? We'd suck. Callahan and Christensen need to PROVE they can put up 2nd line points before we pencil them in there with any amount of optimism.

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04-13-2010, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Ideally? We'd suck. Callahan and Christensen need to PROVE they can put up 2nd line points before we pencil them in there with any amount of optimism.
Callahan produces what he produces. Whether or not that is good enough for the 2nd line depends on the personnel of the team.

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