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Redden looks like a goner, Avery maybe

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Old
04-14-2010, 08:16 AM
  #26
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Oh boy....the rangers board will have a field day when that moment comes. I anticipate at least 10 threads screaming REDDEN GONE PRAISE JEBUS!!!

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04-14-2010, 08:18 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I highly doubt Avery will be sent to Hartford. Either he will be dangled as trade bait a bit this summer or he will be with the team next year.
Right. And I can't imagine many other teams willing to take him on, particularly considering they'd be on the hook for $4MM, rather than the $2MM we're paying him.

And while Avery certainly has detractors in our fan base, the guy is still a fan favorite. How many other players regularly have their names chanted at the Garden? I'm not saying it's a reflection of his true value as a player or anything, but it's tough for a front office to demote a player that's beloved by so many fans. And one, that for all his mediocrity this season, is still relatively productive.

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04-14-2010, 08:18 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Redden in Hartford is the smart move for sure, but I still feel bad for the guy
Why? Reds is still getting his money.

He has now two crappy seasons under his belt, and I highly doubt that trend will change.

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04-14-2010, 08:26 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Right. And I can't imagine many other teams willing to take him on, particularly considering they'd be on the hook for $4MM, rather than the $2MM we're paying him.

And while Avery certainly has detractors in our fan base, the guy is still a fan favorite. How many other players regularly have their names chanted at the Garden? I'm not saying it's a reflection of his true value as a player or anything, but it's tough for a front office to demote a player that's beloved by so many fans. And one, that for all his mediocrity this season, is still relatively productive.
That I think is not correct. I've looked in the CBA and I can only find where it is described that the waiving club has to pay 50 percent of the salary and is on the hook for 50 percent of the cap-hit for the contract's remaining amounts. I can't find anything where it says that this changes once a player gets traded.

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04-14-2010, 08:29 AM
  #30
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It does seem like Torts has put out a challenge to Sather to do something about Redden. The question to me is whether Sather's ego allows him to say out loud that the contract was a mistake and we're gonna bury the guy in Hartford -- that's not exactly Sather's style.
But I'm certainly glad that Torts put this out there cuz it has been the elephant in the room for a very long time. The fans and the press noticed the elephant a long time ago, but the Rangers organization have been apparently unaware of it.
I suspect that Sather might not be so happy about being backed into the corner a little. That doesn't really bother me much, but it might mean Torts is feeling secure in his job if he's willing to push the GM in public about certain players.

As for Avery, I have to believe he'll be back. He's not that expensive and it sounds like he's figured out the balance between "good Sean" and "bad Sean" so that he knows what his most effective role is. And, frankly, he's still not gonna be an easy guy to trade...teams are unlikely to be lining up for a chance to take him off our hands.

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04-14-2010, 08:30 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
I wouldn't say the Rangers continuously flood Hartford with player's that can't hack it at the NHL level.
I just don't have any interest in seeing Wade Redden mentor the next 4 years of Ranger defensive prospects or eat up a roster spot while he sulks up and down the ice, a la Patrick Rissmiller.

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04-14-2010, 08:30 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by AOWRanger View Post
Oh boy....the rangers board will have a field day when that moment comes. I anticipate at least 10 threads screaming REDDEN GONE PRAISE JEBUS!!!
Yup, it will be a party on these boards the day that Redden gets waived. We are going to have to wait until training camp starts for that to happen though, because players cannot be waived during the off season.

Although if the Rangers add Volchenkov in July, the writing will be on the wall that it's only a matter of time before he gets waived.

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04-14-2010, 08:31 AM
  #33
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I really don't like this strategy. Torts has essentially put the team in a position where they MUST make a dramatic move with Redden now. I'm not sure that continuing to poison the well in Hartford with NYR malcontents is really a best case scenario for anyone either.
Really? What did Tortorella do that makes the Rangers HAVE to do something drastic? All he did was not comment about Redden.

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Does this guy ever trying building a bridge, or just default to burning them down with flamethrowers when he meets someone he doesn't happen to agree with?
Tortorella tried to work with Redden from the end of last year through all of this year until it became apparent that Redden just wasn't willing or able to step up his game beyond "sometimes competent third pairing defenseman"

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04-14-2010, 08:33 AM
  #34
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That speaks more to the talent or lack there of, than how great Avery is.
Which was kind of my point. Can't really get rid of the guy...

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04-14-2010, 08:34 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I just don't have any interest in seeing Wade Redden mentor the next 4 years of Ranger defensive prospects or eat up a roster spot while he sulks up and down the ice, a la Patrick Rissmiller.
They could do what they did with Rissmiller, though, and send him to another AHL team on loan. Not saying that would happen but it's an option.

Either way, whether he's playing in the NHL or in the AHL, he's going to be eating up a roster spot. At least if he's in the AHL, he's not eating up cap space as well as playing terrible D, causing the Rangers to lose games.

The pro's definitely out weigh the con's at this point in the game.

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04-14-2010, 08:35 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Really? What did Tortorella do that makes the Rangers HAVE to do something drastic? All he did was not comment about Redden.
Yeah but the way he did it implies that if he opened his mouth it wouldn't be a good thing. Especially since he discussed other players openly. Either way I'd be glad to get rid of Redden, Aves I am half and half with.

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04-14-2010, 08:37 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Really? What did Tortorella do that makes the Rangers HAVE to do something drastic? All he did was not comment about Redden.
Who else would he have been talking about?

Once Tortorella went public with his dislike for Kotalik, there was no turning back. Hard for me to see how he and Redden continue to co-exist.

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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Tortorella tried to work with Redden from the end of last year through all of this year until it became apparent that Redden just wasn't willing or able to step up his game beyond "sometimes competent third pairing defenseman"
Yah, well, I'm not a believer that the Tortorella method works for everyone.

I do believe that Redden can be a functional part of a good team.

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04-14-2010, 08:41 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Who else would he have been talking about?

Once Tortorella went public with his dislike for Kotalik, there was no turning back. Hard for me to see how he and Redden continue to co-exist.



Yah, well, I'm not a believer that the Tortorella method works for everyone.

I do believe that Redden can be a functional part of a good team.
Functional? At $6.5 million per year for the next 4 years, where he will only get worse? We already have a "functional" 3rd line center/PK specialist making over $7 million for the next two seasons.

Why lock up almost $14 million in cap space (Or almost 25% of this teams cap space) in "functional" players when there is an out for at least one of those players (eg. waiving him)?

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04-14-2010, 08:42 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
They could do what they did with Rissmiller, though, and send him to another AHL team on loan. Not saying that would happen but it's an option.
I think his attitude became so poisonous, there was no other choice but to get rid of him.

Again, it's just not what I hope for the Rangers pro development program to be, especially now.

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04-14-2010, 08:44 AM
  #40
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aves isn't going anywhere.

he's popular in the dressing room

he's a fan favorite

his contract is perfect for a 3rd line lw who can play up in the lineup

and he found his game towards the end of the season

not to mention unless he's waived which he won't be especially if redden is, there's no team that would want him.

the guy's a player it would be dumb not to consider him part of the core and even a step further a leader.

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04-14-2010, 08:48 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Functional? At $6.5 million per year for the next 4 years, where he will only get worse? We already have a "functional" 3rd line center/PK specialist making over $7 million for the next two seasons.

Why lock up almost $14 million in cap space (Or almost 25% of this teams cap space) in "functional" players when there is an out for at least one of those players (eg. waiving him)?
I'm not sure what that has to do with Tortorella. His job is SUPPOSED to be getting the most out of what he's got, not critique his production per dollar and cry to management that he doesn't want him on the team any more.

Thus far, all the moves that were on behalf of Tortorella leave a lot to be desired, so pardon me if I'm hardly doing back flips over another "Torts guy" makeover and $6.5M of UFA $ in Sather's hot little hand.

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04-14-2010, 08:54 AM
  #42
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That I think is not correct. I've looked in the CBA and I can only find where it is described that the waiving club has to pay 50 percent of the salary and is on the hook for 50 percent of the cap-hit for the contract's remaining amounts. I can't find anything where it says that this changes once a player gets traded.
That could be correct, I'm not really sure.

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04-14-2010, 08:56 AM
  #43
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You can certainly compare the grit of Brandon Prust and Sean Avery, but please to not let a few games convince you that Prust is as talented as Avery.
Bingo. Prust is effective in the pest role, but Avery is dubbed as the super pest for a reason.

Hes good for 35 points for a full season and Im sorry, Brandon Prust as great as he was in the last few games and as much as i want him back, will not break 20 points.

Prust is without a doubt a keeper. I think him and Avery on the same line with a half decent center could do wonders. But to just oust Avery because we have another new shiny toy is lunacy.

This team may not have the most potent offense in the league, but this year it was enough. The defense was the issue. And replacing 35 points at 1.9 million a year will not be easy. However, Replacing a pest who puts up 35 points at 1.9 mil a year is going to be even more difficult.

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04-14-2010, 08:57 AM
  #44
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The Avery speculation is baseless. Avery wasn't even mentioned in the entire interview or even asked about.

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04-14-2010, 08:59 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I'm not sure what that has to do with Tortorella. His job is SUPPOSED to be getting the most out of what he's got, not critique his production per dollar and cry to management that he doesn't want him on the team any more.

Thus far, all the moves that were on behalf of Tortorella leave a lot to be desired, so pardon me if I'm hardly doing back flips over another "Torts guy" makeover and $6.5M of UFA $ in Sather's hot little hand.
Where did he critique his production per $? Actually he's completely taken the high road here. He's refused to discuss Redden specifically, which is a clear cut enough sign of course, but is completely non confrontational.

And yea...the one player that is truly a "Torts guy" since he actually played for Torts before, turned out really poorly, huh?

Anyways, how is having $6.5M extra a bad thing? I don't say this often, because I usually believe things can always get worse, but I just don't see how it's possible to get worse value than Redden.

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04-14-2010, 09:00 AM
  #46
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Right. And I can't imagine many other teams willing to take him on, particularly considering they'd be on the hook for $4MM, rather than the $2MM we're paying him.

And while Avery certainly has detractors in our fan base, the guy is still a fan favorite. How many other players regularly have their names chanted at the Garden? I'm not saying it's a reflection of his true value as a player or anything, but it's tough for a front office to demote a player that's beloved by so many fans. And one, that for all his mediocrity this season, is still relatively productive.
31 points in 69 games is not that mediocre. If your refering to his pest capabilities than yes, I agree in that sense.

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04-14-2010, 09:00 AM
  #47
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I can't believe that some of you are actually defending Redden. Do you hate Tortorella that much? How freaking disgusted would you be as head coach of the Rangers, the job you've always dreamed of, and have to deal with 2 rookies and the most overpaid/underpeforming defenseman in the league? Good for Tortorella. I hope Sather gets the message. Redden will hurt this franchise for years to come - with his crappy play and enormous contract. I don't give a **** about his feelings. He's getting paid anyway.

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:03 AM
  #48
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avery is more talented than prust. period.

prust doesnt have to play under the "avery" rules either. thats huge.

i like prust and avery both on next years team.

i do not like either playing any minutes top 6

as long as they play bottom 6 minutes, they are both assets as they are both sandpaper and grit.

something we sorely lack.

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04-14-2010, 09:05 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I really don't like this strategy. Torts has essentially put the team in a position where they MUST make a dramatic move with Redden now. I'm not sure that continuing to poison the well in Hartford with NYR malcontents is really a best case scenario for anyone either.

Does this guy ever trying building a bridge, or just default to burning them down with flamethrowers when he meets someone he doesn't happen to agree with?
Going with the "poison well" theory, would/could the Rangers send him down to Hartford and then summarily scratch him from every game.? Let him sit till he agrees to some sort of buyout.
Or..Would he rather sit and collect than play in Hartford at all? Guess only he knows that answer.

Either way, Wade Redden gone as soon as possible from the Ranger roster is a step forward.

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04-14-2010, 09:11 AM
  #50
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What is with all this talk about Redden going to Hartford? He will ruin the young talent down there. SEND HIM TO CHARLOTTE TO PLAY WITH THE CHECKERS!!!!

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