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Redden looks like a goner, Avery maybe

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:14 AM
  #51
Bluenote13
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As much as I find Avery entertaining, I didn't mind seeing prust pretty much take over his minutes. Prust is not that kind of pest but over the years this 'pest' role hasn't really gotten us anywhere and more or less we've had to rely on this kind of performnce for wins cause of our lack of talent.

Eventually we have to move on from the celebrity Sean Avery.

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04-14-2010, 09:18 AM
  #52
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Love Reddens line about coming to camp and "showing everybody what he is all about". That is ****ing hilarious to me.


Nice to see that he was holding back the real Wade Redden.

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04-14-2010, 09:18 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Eventually we have to move on from the celebrity Sean Avery.
No, No and NO! The hell with that.

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04-14-2010, 09:21 AM
  #54
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Avery isn't "Avery" anymore. It's not entirely his fault, but the guy just isn't able to be the pest he used to be without getting into trouble with the refs.

Prust is a cheaper alternative. Will he put up similar point totals? I doubt it, but the ROI makes that easier to swallow. A sub $1MM salary for Prust, vs nearly $2MM for Avery. Still, we'll be stuck with Avery's cap hit regardless of what we do. Even if we trade him, Dallas is the one that's off the hook for their half.

Redden should be gone. The fact that he sometimes passes for a bottom pairing d-man is irrelevant. He's a boat anchor around this team's neck financially, and I think mentally in the locker room as well. My hope is that whoever is running the front office doesn't decide to go out and hand a similar contract to Volchenkov. There's just no reason to be paying a stay-at-home d-man more than $4MM per year. None at all.

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04-14-2010, 09:24 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Avery isn't "Avery" anymore. It's not entirely his fault, but the guy just isn't able to be the pest he used to be without getting into trouble with the refs.

Prust is a cheaper alternative. Will he put up similar point totals? I doubt it, but the ROI makes that easier to swallow. A sub $1MM salary for Prust, vs nearly $2MM for Avery. Still, we'll be stuck with Avery's cap hit regardless of what we do. Even if we trade him, Dallas is the one that's off the hook for their half.

Redden should be gone. The fact that he sometimes passes for a bottom pairing d-man is irrelevant. He's a boat anchor around this team's neck financially, and I think mentally in the locker room as well. My hope is that whoever is running the front office doesn't decide to go out and hand a similar contract to Volchenkov. There's just no reason to be paying a stay-at-home d-man more than $4MM per year. None at all.
Exactly! Therefore his value is low imo.

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04-14-2010, 09:25 AM
  #56
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I doubt Avery is going anywhere. This is fodder for the boards, but that's about it. If we could get a decent return, however, I'd be open to the idea of moving him. I think he does have value, and I still believe he can be an effective player. It's not like we're oozing talent at LW.

Redden, however, has no place on this team. He was a colossal failure, and we need to stop the bleeding. 4 more years of Redden is essentially an Armageddon scenario.

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:26 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Thus far, all the moves that were on behalf of Tortorella leave a lot to be desired, so pardon me if I'm hardly doing back flips over another "Torts guy" makeover and $6.5M of UFA $ in Sather's hot little hand.
Sooo...you want the status quo?

You complain about the idea of ditching someone like Redden because it gives Sather another chance to make a mistake? Which implies you'd rather they just suck it up and live with Redden no matter how detrimental that is because another mistake *might* be made?

I mean it all boils down to "**** Sather and his stupid mistakes and I don't like Tortorella" which as a general opinion I'm fine with, but what exactly do you have beyond that? edit: and yes I'm deliberately pushing you for an answer by extending your argument into an area it didn't quite go into, but to be honest I'm not a fan of the vague replies like that.

I don't have some concrete plan I think the Rangers should take to rid themselves of Redden and improve the lineup, but to be blunt, I'm also not going to cower in fear of the idea that Sather *might* make another mistake if he manages to rectify the Redden mistake. It's like dating that girl who's horrible to you and makes you feel like **** but you're afraid to dump her because "what if the next one is even worse?!"

And Wade Redden is already a "functional" part of the Rangers...he functions just fine as a third pairing defenseman. That's really not the major issue, as it'd be just fine and dandy if he made like $2 mill per year.

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:26 AM
  #58
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Avery will stay. No other team will take him and Sather is a big fan of him. But I'm sure that's already been said 100 times already in this thread.

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:28 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
That could be correct, I'm not really sure.
I'm not quite sure either, it's just how I think it is reading the CBA, but maybe a true CBA expert could clarify.
But I think there are few to no teams that want Avery at any price, $3.8 million or $1.9 million doesn't really matter.

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04-14-2010, 09:29 AM
  #60
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If they want to get rid of Avery, fine by me, I'm just not sure how they'll get it done.
Dude, what the hell happened to you?

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04-14-2010, 09:32 AM
  #61
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Avery = merchandise.

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:33 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
In Prust's short stint he was a much, much better version of Avery. With Prust here, Avery becomes a man without a function.
Prust could be a one-year wonder. Avery has been statistically consistent every year.

12-15 goals and 40 points isnt a bad return for 1.9 million for a guy who clearly gives his heart out for the fans, the city and the uniform.

I think we can keep Prust, Shelley and Avery. I personally want all three to return

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:38 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
I think we can keep Prust, Shelley and Avery. I personally want all three to return
Aye, why is there all this talk about Avery being expendable now that Prust had a few good games. Why not keep both in the lineup? This board was furious about the teams grit the last two seasons, now that we have some we feel like there are players that are superfluous?

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:39 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Avery isn't "Avery" anymore. It's not entirely his fault, but the guy just isn't able to be the pest he used to be without getting into trouble with the refs.
This....

Love Sean when he's playing the classic Avery game though

It also kind of irked me that he seemingly could turn it up a few notches in certain games, like the Dallas game...that Flyer game, and than be nowhere the next 5 games.

Polar opposites is frustrating...

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:44 AM
  #65
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It sure as hell looks like Brandon Prust could take on Avery's role. During his short time here, Prust was an impact player in more games than Sean.

I'd be fine with them both on the team though, theyre both cheap and lets face it, no other team is going to take on Avery and his toxic personality.

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04-14-2010, 09:49 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by HAPPY HOUR View Post
Going with the "poison well" theory, would/could the Rangers send him down to Hartford and then summarily scratch him from every game.? Let him sit till he agrees to some sort of buyout.
There are no negotiated buyouts. The only buyout option would pay Redden 2/3rds of his remaining salary over twice the length of the remaining contract. So, 2/3rds of 23 million. The cap hits would be:

http://www.capgeek.com/buyout_calcul...LCULATE+BUYOUT

2010-2011 : $1,916,667
2011-2012 : $1,916,667
2012-2013 : $3,416,667
2013-2014 : $3,416,667
2014-2015 : $1,916,667
2015-2016 : $1,916,667
2016-2017 : $1,916,667
2017-2018 : $1,916,667

There's no way the Rangers are going to buy him out and carry those cap hits for the next 8 years. Redden could refuse the assignment to Hartford, or leave Hartford after reporting, in which case the Rangers could terminate his contract. But then Redden wouldn't get that 23 million.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
What is with all this talk about Redden going to Hartford? He will ruin the young talent down there. SEND HIM TO CHARLOTTE TO PLAY WITH THE CHECKERS!!!!
I know you're probably joking, but just so everyone understands, this is not an option. Players on 1 way contracts cannot be sent to the ECHL.

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:51 AM
  #67
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Why would Aves be gone? That is just retarded.

Agreed. People expect too much production out of him. Avery is a 3rd liner, that's it. You'll get 30-35 points from him a year as well as energy and willingness to stick up for a team mate. I remember some people at the start of the season saying he could reach 20 goals. Yeah right.

Just stick him on the 3rd line and he'll be fine. With him on 3rd line and Prust and Shelley on 4th line we wont be anywhere near as soft as we were at times this season.

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04-14-2010, 09:53 AM
  #68
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This is part of the package with Torts, and something most everyone was clamoring for when he became coach here. Accountability.

If Redden dogged it all year, Torts is going to make absolutely clear that it is not in the best interests of the franchise to play a 3rd pairing dman one of the highest yearly salaries among defensemen in the NHL.

Slats, hopefully will listen and gets Dolan's sign-off.

Its hard to believe that the highlights or Redden's stay as a ranger was a fight.

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:54 AM
  #69
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I really don't like this strategy. Torts has essentially put the team in a position where they MUST make a dramatic move with Redden now. I'm not sure that continuing to poison the well in Hartford with NYR malcontents is really a best case scenario for anyone either.

Does this guy ever trying building a bridge, or just default to burning them down with flamethrowers when he meets someone he doesn't happen to agree with?
What kind of bridge do you build that solves a cap problem like Reddens? I don't really see what you think he should do rather than send him to hartford, where he likely wouldn't play anyway.

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Old
04-14-2010, 09:54 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
If they want to get rid of Avery, fine by me, I'm just not sure how they'll get it done.

What? You out of all the people. How could you?



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Old
04-14-2010, 09:59 AM
  #71
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Why is the Avery speculation baseless? Just look at the roster. Brashear and Kotalik are gone. Torts praised Voros a few weeks ago for being a good teammate. Which players is he talking about besides Redden? Prospal? It doesn't appear Vinny coming back is even an option. Andrew Gross discussed that today.

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Old
04-14-2010, 10:01 AM
  #72
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Avery

God, I hope they keep him. He's one of the few reasons to watch this team, though he was too tepid for his own good this season.

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Old
04-14-2010, 10:01 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
edit: and yes I'm deliberately pushing you for an answer by extending your argument into an area it didn't quite go into, but to be honest I'm not a fan of the vague replies like that.
They've committed to sticking with the coaching strategy. It appears the management structure will remain in place. A large portion of the roster is signed for next year, but entering the final year of their contracts. I think status quo is appropriate when you've already turned you back on the kind of change you really need and don't have a plan going forward.

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Old
04-14-2010, 10:04 AM
  #74
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Prust is no where as talented as Avery. Prust will never hit 30 plus points in a season. I'm sorry if people are expecting Prust to score they are going to be disappointed. Any scoring Prust gives you should be viewed as a bonus.

Avery still had 31 points 1 less point than Drury. Avery was very good and looked like the old Avery after getting bench. He also stood up for his teamates he fought Carcillo. He is hardly the problem but we know the coach isn't the biggest fan. They need to keep both Prust and Avery next year. People want the rangers to be a tougher team than keep Prust, Avery and Shelley and they will be a much more grit in the lineup.

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Old
04-14-2010, 10:06 AM
  #75
Ian
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The Avery stuff is most likely posturing. They know the best way to get the guy motivated is to try to piss him off, not many better ways to do that over the course of an offseason than to pretty much say it's not a guarantee he'll be brought back.

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