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Redden looks like a goner, Avery maybe

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Old
04-14-2010, 11:20 AM
  #101
Riche16
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I just don't have any interest in seeing Wade Redden mentor the next 4 years of Ranger defensive prospects or eat up a roster spot while he sulks up and down the ice, a la Patrick Rissmiller.
What, pray tell, do you think he's doing night in and night out in the NHL club's lockeroom? Jeez.

The day that guy is gone, anywhere, anyhow, will be a day I will celebrate in anniversary style for years to come!

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04-14-2010, 11:21 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
In Prust's short stint he was a much, much better version of Avery. With Prust here, Avery becomes a man without a function.
as great of a finish as prust had hes still no better of a player then avery. just look at the difference in points. at this point i dont see prust being capable of playing the powerplay. i like both players but they fill different roles

SEAN AVERY
Year Team GP G A Pts
2001-02 DET 36 2 2 4
2002-03 DET/LA 51 6 9 15
2003-04 LA 76 9 19 28
2005-06 LA 75 15 24 39
2006-07 LA/NYR 84 18 30 48
2007-08 NYR 57 15 18 33
2008-09 DAL/NYR 41 8 14 22
2009-10 NYR 69 11 20 31

BRANDON PRUST
Year Team GP G A Pts
2006-07 CGY 10 0 0 0
2008-09 CGY 25 1 1 2
2008-09 PHO 11 0 1 1
2009-10 CGY/NYR 69 5 9 14

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Old
04-14-2010, 11:25 AM
  #103
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Again I'll take Prust's points even though its half of what Avery could give us. Ya know why? Cause Prust is a soldier. Ya tell him to do something and he'll do it to the best of his ability for the team.

You ask Sean Avery to do something and it takes him half a season to 'find it within himself'. The guy can't adjust at 30 years old, I find that a problem.

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Old
04-14-2010, 11:32 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
"I'd like to get younger" - Torts

Girardi-26
Staal- 23
Avery- 30
Look up the last 5 years worth of break up day posts..Renney and Torts said after every season "we need to get younger" this board spends three months using that PR mantra as gospel, yet on July 1st ts forgotten. Seriously look up old threads! Its hilarious that so many people take this seriously!

As far as Avery goes he did who the coach asked him to do. From showing up in the best shape to toning down his act. Just because Torts can't get the best out of him doesn't mean its all on Avery. Torts doesn't have a clue how to coach and his Stanley Cup ring had more to do with the super star talent than anything else. If the Rangers had a better coach they would've made the playoffs. This year is on Torts...unless it was another coach predicted 35 goals each for Higgins ad kotelik.

What the Rangers should do is send Torts to media sensitivity training........again!
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Old
04-14-2010, 11:32 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I really don't like this strategy. Torts has essentially put the team in a position where they MUST make a dramatic move with Redden now. I'm not sure that continuing to poison the well in Hartford with NYR malcontents is really a best case scenario for anyone either.

Does this guy ever trying building a bridge, or just default to burning them down with flamethrowers when he meets someone he doesn't happen to agree with?
Do you want Redden poising the Rangers for the next 4 years? Or the Pack?

We all want him gone, so does Torts. Good on him to take charge to make sure it happens to improve the team and clear cap space. Obviously Sather will have to push the buttons, but Torts is making sure those will be pushed.

Why would Torts build a bridge with Redden? That's not magically going to make him a top 2 dman again. Cut ties with him already.

------------------
I dont see anything that makes me believe Avery is going anywhere in the article. So his name wasnt brought up. So? People are already overrating with this over nothing, title very misleading

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04-14-2010, 11:34 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Again, its kinda weird to be reading a 30 yr old talk about taking a half a season to 'find where he needed to be'.

Yeeeah, I'm sure there's no problems there whatsoever.
People respond differently to change. There was a drastic roster turnover last season, and a new coaching scheme. Yea, half a season is a hell of a long time for a veteran to find his game, but things like that happen.

The impact Avery is capable of providing @1.9M is a bargain, when he's on. Considering he did end the season on a high note implies to me that he has grasped what the coaches want out of him.

If Redden is being demoted to Hartford, I see absolutely no reason to even try and move Avery. He's not really tradeable. He's not overpriced either. Rangers are paying him 500k more than Brashear lol.

Not re-signing Jokinen, and burying Redden should create more than enough cap space necessary to sign our guys, and possibly bring in a player that fills a hole on this team.

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04-14-2010, 11:36 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Again I'll take Prust's points even though its half of what Avery could give us. Ya know why? Cause Prust is a soldier. Ya tell him to do something and he'll do it to the best of his ability for the team.

You ask Sean Avery to do something and it takes him half a season to 'find it within himself'. The guy can't adjust at 30 years old, I find that a problem.
I rather see Avery and Prust on the same line from time to time. there is room for both. Being realistic no one will take Avery anyway and its only 2 million so keep him for a year for sure

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04-14-2010, 11:38 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
Do you want Redden poising the Rangers for the next 4 years? Or the Pack?

We all want him gone, so does Torts. Good on him to take charge to make sure it happens to improve the team and clear cap space. Obviously Sather will have to push the buttons, but Torts is making sure those will be pushed.

Why would Torts build a bridge with Redden? That's not magically going to make him a top 2 dman again. Cut ties with him already.

------------------
I dont see anything that makes me believe Avery is going anywhere in the article. So his name wasnt brought up. So? People are already overrating with this over nothing, title very misleading
But it's not entirely in the coaches hands, here. Torts can hope that Slats pushes all the buttons in the world, but what if Glen and Dolan decide not to waive Redden? It seems like a very real possibility to me. Then you've got an albatross contract, and a malcontent player that has no relationship with his coach.

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04-14-2010, 11:40 AM
  #109
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if Redden hits hartford then the league hopefully will revisit allowing one buyout per team for the next year........the Players Assoc would want that to

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04-14-2010, 11:41 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
if Redden hits hartford then the league hopefully will revisit allowing one buyout per team for the next year........the Players Assoc would want that to
What would the players want that?

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Old
04-14-2010, 11:42 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
But it's not entirely in the coaches hands, here. Torts can hope that Slats pushes all the buttons in the world, but what if Glen and Dolan decide not to waive Redden? It seems like a very real possibility to me. Then you've got an albatross contract, and a malcontent player that has no relationship with his coach.
Its a possibility sure, but I can't think of one single reason not to.

He's been horrible for 2 years now with the season, his last chance to improve him game was this year.

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04-14-2010, 11:43 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
People respond differently to change. There was a drastic roster turnover last season, and a new coaching scheme. Yea, half a season is a hell of a long time for a veteran to find his game, but things like that happen.

The impact Avery is capable of providing @1.9M is a bargain, when he's on. Considering he did end the season on a high note implies to me that he has grasped what the coaches want out of him.

If Redden is being demoted to Hartford, I see absolutely no reason to even try and move Avery. He's not really tradeable. He's not overpriced either. Rangers are paying him 500k more than Brashear lol.

Not re-signing Jokinen, and burying Redden should create more than enough cap space necessary to sign our guys, and possibly bring in a player that fills a hole on this team.
Im pretty sure Avery will be back next year. He didnt really show up for a while but i feel that was more of the coaches doing than his own. After the sloppy seconds incident i think Avery realized he was on his last legs in the NHL and the Rangers were providing them.

When Torts came over he laid out what he expected from Avery and obviously Avery cant play up to his potential if he does not play with that edge. I think when torts benched him and took off the leash we all saw the Avery we have come to know and love.

Hopefully next year that same guy will be back and healthy as he is an asset worth having when he is on his game.

Should be an interesting off-season lets hope we dont screw it up.

p.s. i had a dream last night that i logged onto hf boards in the morning and read that redden had been demoted lol....6 months to early

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Old
04-14-2010, 11:43 AM
  #113
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There is nothing Torts or any coach in the world could do to manage Redden more effectively.
I don't believe that. Renney certainly got better use out of him.

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04-14-2010, 11:49 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I don't believe that. Renney certainly got better use out of him.

Come on.

Redden's been bad for us for the ENTIRE LENGTH OF HIS RIDICULOUS CONTRACT.

It didn't matter what coach was watching him shy away from hits, missing assignments, blowing passes and firing weak shots wide of the net... he's been doing that in a Rangers sweater for 3 years and it's time for it to end.

It's all Torts fault that the guy can't skate anymore huh?

Please.

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04-14-2010, 11:51 AM
  #115
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I think the CBA, as drafted, was a compromise between the NHLPA and NHL regarding buyouts. The NHL would want to limit it because by not doing so it would allow the "haves" to shed people to get around the cap. The NHLPA wanted the 2x term structure to have the cap hit over a longer period of time to dissuade owners from using that option, which results in less $$$ to the player, potentially (I say potentially, because if they can sign elsewhere for a certain amount, all can be evened out). I don't know why the players would want an option for one buyout.

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04-14-2010, 11:51 AM
  #116
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What would the players want that?
They would want it so a guy like Redden would not be buried in the minors for the rest of his career. Redden is an NHL Dman but he may not be in the NHL because of his horrific contract

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04-14-2010, 11:54 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I don't believe that. Renney certainly got better use out of him.
Disagree. Renney treated Redden as if he was still one of the best defensemen in the league. He played more minutes than Staal and didn't deserve to.

Redden started playing much better once Torts was hired last season. He ended the season strong and him and Rozy was our best pairing during the playoffs. Redden started out this season playing well, but then he got injured and started playing like crap again.

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04-14-2010, 11:54 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Come on.

Redden's been bad for us for the ENTIRE LENGTH OF HIS RIDICULOUS CONTRACT.

It didn't matter what coach was watching him shy away from hits, missing assignments, blowing passes and firing weak shots wide of the net... he's been doing that in a Rangers sweater for 3 years and it's time for it to end.

It's all Torts fault that the guy can't skate anymore huh?

Please.
He's actually only been here two.

3 G under Renney/Torts. 2 G under Torts
-5 under Renney/Torts. +8 under Torts

He sucks no matter what.

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04-14-2010, 11:55 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
"I'd like to get younger" - Torts

Girardi-26
Staal- 23
Avery- 30
That doesn't necessarily mean he is talking about Avery. Jokinen is gone, according to Gross he doesn't think Prospal will be back. If they waive Redden they will already be much younger with those 3 moves and have a lot of cap room.

I still think they want to make the playoffs next year so I doubt it will be a full youth movement. Even if Torts wanted to get rid of Avery I doubt he could. Drury, Rozsival and Avery are all basically not tradeable for different reasons and I think will all be back next year.

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04-14-2010, 11:58 AM
  #120
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Redden should be Hartford bound even if his contract was a $2m cap hit. He sucks, period.

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04-14-2010, 12:04 PM
  #121
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i've been very critical of Avery on these boards

but i have to say, if the team as a whole gets better, avery will be better

the biggest problem with Avery is the people (including managment and coaching) expecting him to be more than a 3rd/4th line player

sean brings what sean brings, he wont bring you 2nd line points, but dont put him in the position where he's expected to and you'll like him a lot more

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04-14-2010, 12:06 PM
  #122
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MJ...

I'd argue that Torts got better use of Redden. Redden was pretty bad last season. He wasn't as bad during the stretch run last season compared to prior to Renney being let go. If you're solely talking points, then you're speaking apples to oranges. Torts used him differently (less PP) and that wasn't a bad thing as there were others to take Redden's place.

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04-14-2010, 12:11 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Again, its kinda weird to be reading a 30 yr old talk about taking a half a season to 'find where he needed to be'.

Yeeeah, I'm sure there's no problems there whatsoever.
He's talking about fitting his game within the context of what his coach is looking for from him given his unique contribution. Not about "where he needs to be" like some rookie is looking to develop his game. But you already knew that. The actual meaning simply didn't fit your agenda.

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04-14-2010, 12:13 PM
  #124
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Zipay live chat today:


Nicole:
Do you have any idea who the guys in the locker room are who are causing the problems Torts has been referring to?

Wednesday April 14, 2010 1:06
Not that I would agree with his assessment, especially since we have less access and players are more cautious...but my guess: Kotalik, Vally, Brashear, (gone) Redden, Avery, Voros, Lisin

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04-14-2010, 12:16 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Come on.

Redden's been bad for us for the ENTIRE LENGTH OF HIS RIDICULOUS CONTRACT.

It didn't matter what coach was watching him shy away from hits, missing assignments, blowing passes and firing weak shots wide of the net... he's been doing that in a Rangers sweater for 3 years and it's time for it to end.

It's all Torts fault that the guy can't skate anymore huh?

Please.
Watching Nate ****ing Thompson skate wide around Redden 2-3 weeks ago like he was standing still, is a pretty good barometer of Reddens legs about now.


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