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Old
04-14-2010, 04:40 PM
  #101
mullichicken25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
which assumptions?
kolvochuks salary, prospals salary, staals salary, christensens salary, girardis salary

Sangs being ready to play

trading rosi

McD being ready to play

cally, dubi, anisimov getting predicatble raises

and all of that comes after the assumption that we can rid ourselves of Redden AND Brashear's cap hit

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04-14-2010, 04:42 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
im assuming brashear is traded. we might have to add to make it work.

brashear +4th for 7th or something.

that D is this years D, with Sanguinetti instead of Redden.

its not going to be worse than this year, thats for sure.
Dude, you really think Sanguinetti is gonna be an NHL defensemen next season? I did not see anything in the extreme short period of time he was here to sugguest that he will be, maybe 2 years from now.

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04-14-2010, 05:23 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
Outside of Nittymaki who is a better option? Personally I feel there about even.

Hedberg is the LAST MAN I want as a back up. I dont know how many of you watch the thrashers on a regular basis but I do. I dont want him here. His age started to show this season.

Same thing with Kovalchuk. Ive watched him long enough in Atlanta to know hes more of a primadonna than Jagr, he pouts and sulks when he doesnt get his way and the money he is going to command just isnt worth it.

These are two players we need to stay away from.
I just wanted to point out watching a vast majority of Tampa games this season that Nitty is VASTLY superior to Auld. However the downside to Nittymaki is confidence. When he is feeling confident he is a 1A goalie, but when he is struggling with confidence he is at worst a backup.

That is precisely the type of player the Rangers are looking for it sounds like. Personally I also like the idea of Marty Biron, people seem to really like him and I don't think Lundqvist has much to fear. Biron is also a solid goalie in the same vein as Nittymaki.

And why are people so high on this Christensen kid, okay granted he got 26 points after being plucked from waivers, but I'd be hesitant to sign him before taking a look at other options, possibly trades, prospects, or FA signings -- to me he seems like he was playing with that chip on his shoulder and now with the security of a contract -- I bet he flops. I could be wrong on that, but seems like a very dubious move, esp throwing him on the top line like some of you are.

And keeping Staal, Girardi, Roszival, DZ and adding Volchenkov is a PERFECT move for this franchise going forward. It allows Sanguinetti, McD, and others the ability to slot in the bottom pairing and play less than 10 minutes a game were they to make it -- or it allows the Rangers to play Gilroy, Girardi, or DZ to play fewer minutes should they drop their level of play during the season. And granted I don't like Gilroy much so if Sangs/Potter/etc were to replace him I wouldn't really care. And not to mention Volchenkov is a HARD HITTING, CREASE CLEARING, LAY IT ON THE LINE, type of defenseman that we all can honestly say the team lacks.

For that matter Michaelk from Phoenix is like an upgraded Girardi so even adding him might be a solid move for the franchise in terms of stability on the blueline. That elusive 7th defenseman will still need to be addressed however.

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Old
04-14-2010, 05:48 PM
  #104
Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
kolvochuks salary, prospals salary, staals salary, christensens salary, girardis salary

Sangs being ready to play

trading rosi

McD being ready to play

cally, dubi, anisimov getting predicatble raises

and all of that comes after the assumption that we can rid ourselves of Redden AND Brashear's cap hit
kovalchuks salary is 9.5 mil...you think hes going to get much more than that? prospals salary is what it is, hes getting paid by Tampa already...if hes looking for a payday, he can move on...but hes already stated he wants stability for his kids. Sanguinetti was one of the last Dmen cut last year...i think he will be ready. Staals salary is actually probably on the high side. Sather doesnt pay guys without arbitration rights very often. Christensens salary is also about what I expect him to get. he was a waiver claim...and has been in 3 organizations, and the AHL in the last year and a half if im not mistaken. He was a 1/2 PPG player playing almost exclusively with Marian Gaborik. Hes not going to get a lot of money with those credentials. Girardis salary is what most ppl expect it to be, between 2 and 2.5 mil.

there is nothing in Dubi, Cally, or Anisimovs play this past year that expect me to believe that any of them will justify a substantial raise. None whatsoever, but even if they do get one, 5 mil will be enough to keep them, and im sure the cap will once again go up.

there are no assumptions made here that are farfetched. and a lot of the players you are nitpicking here, are replaceable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
Dude, you really think Sanguinetti is gonna be an NHL defensemen next season? I did not see anything in the extreme short period of time he was here to sugguest that he will be, maybe 2 years from now.
yes, i really do.

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Old
04-14-2010, 06:01 PM
  #105
Gardner McKay
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3/4ths of the Rangers board is going to be on the verge of suicide when 1 of these two things happen.

1. We dont sign Kovalchuk

2. We dont sign Kovalchuk





3. We still dont sign Kovalchuk

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04-14-2010, 06:04 PM
  #106
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We werent when we didnt sign Hossa, Gabs, and I think most of the ranger board will understand that we're in a safer long term situation if we dont.

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Old
04-14-2010, 06:06 PM
  #107
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I'm sorry broski, as much as I like Kovalchuk I in no way endorse giving him $9.5 MILLION a season.

We are better off letting some other team overpay for him and look to solve our problems slowly but surely. We won't be contending for the cup next year, or the year after that. This is a process.

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Old
04-14-2010, 06:32 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Fan in PGH View Post
I'm sorry broski, as much as I like Kovalchuk I in no way endorse giving him $9.5 MILLION a season.

We are better off letting some other team overpay for him and look to solve our problems slowly but surely. We won't be contending for the cup next year, or the year after that. This is a process.
lets recap our main problem shall we?

*a complete lack of first line talent outside of Gaborik.*

So, there are 3 ways to address this.
1)Draft them/bring them up in our system.
The problem with this is 1) we dont have any players in our system that are sure fire first liners...Kreider is the only one who even has that kind of upside, but its still way too early to tell, and hes at least 2 more years away.2)with Henrik Lundqvist and Marian Gaborik, it is highly unlikely we will be in the position to draft a player of that caliber who will have an immediate impact in the next 4-5 years.

2)Trade for a player like that.
There is a big problem here in that right now, teams are locking up those players to huge long term deals. and when they do that they arent looking to trade them unless theyve started to deteriorate, or they have character issues. Also you will have to give up prospects in return to get said players.

3)Sign them when they become available.
There are pros and cons to this. the main con being they you have to pay them their money...when a player hits free agency, their value becomes overinflated. The pro though is that you give up no assets, and you get an impact player right now.


So, we can try to fix our problems, slowly but surely, like you suggest, but in order for us to do that, we pretty much have to trade away Henrik Lundqvist and Marian Gaborik, tank, and draft first line players who will be ready by the time Drury, Redden, and Rozsival are off the books.

Or, you can sign Kovalchuk, eat Reddens salary, and become a contender right away as you infuse some of our youth around them.

The thing with signing kovalchuk is that it allows us to infuse our youth while staying competitive, AND it further removes the need to go out and get said players and overpay for them.

Kovalchuk is in the prime of his career,, is 10 times better than any prospect we have even if they turn out to hit their ceiling, is a dependable 40/40 guy, and will cost nothing but money.

SIGN HIM...even if it means you have to walk away from Dubi or Cally.

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Old
04-14-2010, 06:36 PM
  #109
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I still havent found a realistic scenario in which

A. Kovalchuk signs here for a realistic amount (11 mil considering what he turned down from ATL)

B. We dont dress more than two of MDZ, Sanguinetti, Gilroy, ect.

C. We dont end up with PA parenteau or some filler on the third line

D. We keep at least our 3 top 4 dmen (Rozy, Staal, Girardi)

All while staying under the cap. You show me that, maybe I can get behind it.

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Old
04-14-2010, 06:46 PM
  #110
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For all of those who want to open the checkbook for Kovalchuk, I want someone to tell me the last player who wore a Devils uniform at all for any period of time during the 5 years before joining the Rangers who wasn't an abject failure.

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Old
04-14-2010, 06:50 PM
  #111
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For all of those who want to open the checkbook for Kovalchuk, I want someone to tell me the last player who wore a Devils uniform at all for any period of time during the 5 years before joining the Rangers who wasn't an abject failure.
Because the three months Kovalchuk was a Devil (and not even by his choice) makes hims bleed red and black...

How about:

For all of those who didn't want to open the checkbook for Gaborik, I want someone to tell me the last player who the Rangers signed as a big name UFA who wasn't an abject failure.


Clearly Gaborik was a failure, because those that came before him were.

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Old
04-14-2010, 06:52 PM
  #112
Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Because the three months Kovalchuk was a Devil (and not even by his choice) makes hims bleed red and black...

How about:

For all of those who didn't want to open the checkbook for Gaborik, I want someone to tell me the last player who the Rangers signed as a big name UFA who wasn't an abject failure.


Clearly Gaborik was a failure, because those that came before him were.
Precisely.

And ill go...Marian Gaborik, and Brendan Shanahan for 300 Alex...

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Old
04-14-2010, 06:53 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I still havent found a realistic scenario in which

A. Kovalchuk signs here for a realistic amount (11 mil considering what he turned down from ATL)

B. We dont dress more than two of MDZ, Sanguinetti, Gilroy, ect.

C. We dont end up with PA parenteau or some filler on the third line

D. We keep at least our 3 top 4 dmen (Rozy, Staal, Girardi)

All while staying under the cap. You show me that, maybe I can get behind it.
Kovalchuk wont get 11 mil...not from any team out there. the big market teams that win cant afford it with their current salaries, and the small market teams cant afford it in general.

9.5-10 will be about the max he will get.

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Old
04-14-2010, 06:58 PM
  #114
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Adding Kovy would certainly be nice...but that leaves us with 2 top 6 guys. Perhaps it would be better to sign a couple legit 2nd liners instead?

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Old
04-14-2010, 07:00 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Kovalchuk wont get 11 mil...not from any team out there. the big market teams that win cant afford it with their current salaries, and the small market teams cant afford it in general.

9.5-10 will be about the max he will get.
Inferno, why do you keep insisting this is the only answer to fix this team? It's like it's Kovalchuk or bust with you.

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04-14-2010, 07:01 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Inferno, why do you keep insisting this is the only answer to fix this team? It's like it's Kovalchuk or bust with you.
Regarding this UFA season it really is, but I'm not going to get into the folly of going after Volchenkov/Frolov again... you can find my comments on previous pages.

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04-14-2010, 07:01 PM
  #117
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I'd like Kovalchuk if and only if they front load the crap out of his contract for a cap hit around 7-7.5m.. wishful thinking i know.

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Old
04-14-2010, 07:03 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Inferno, why do you keep insisting this is the only answer to fix this team? It's like it's Kovalchuk or bust with you.
For me, its MZA or bust. The Rangers have the ideal selling point for this guy, he better be a Ranger. Parenateau was the 3rd most skilled player on this team and he is a 26 y/o NHL rookie. This team lacks skill and creativity, that needs to be addressed.

Step 1:
Sign MZA

Step 2:
Replace Redden's salary with someone who will actually earn it (whoever that may be)

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Old
04-14-2010, 07:06 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Inferno, why do you keep insisting this is the only answer to fix this team? It's like it's Kovalchuk or bust with you.
I agree 100 percent with inferno that it is him or bust becuase if we dont get him we migth as well get rid of hank and gabby because we will see the same **** show for the next 4 years since we dont have any top line talent that will be ready when they are still under contract....some people are saying wait till 2011 for UFA's and yes we can do that but no one near the talent of Kovy will be there

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04-14-2010, 07:08 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by BrianLeetch2 View Post
I agree 100 percent with inferno that it is him or bust becuase if we dont get him we migth as well get rid of hank and gabby because we will see the same **** show for the next 4 years since we dont have any top line talent that will be ready when they are still under contract
Alright, #1, commas.

Number two, at the end of two seasons, Drury, Avery, and Rozsival come off the books, allowing us to sign a top flite player.

At that point, MDZ will be 22, Staal 25, Callahan and Dubi will be prime, Kreider and Stepan will be NHL ready, and Lundqvist and Gaborik will still have a two years left on their contracts.

You tell me we cant be competitive with that.

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04-14-2010, 07:10 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by BrianLeetch2 View Post
I agree 100 percent with inferno that it is him or bust becuase if we dont get him we migth as well get rid of hank and gabby because we will see the same **** show for the next 4 years since we dont have any top line talent that will be ready when they are still under contract....some people are saying wait till 2011 for UFA's and yes we can do that but no one near the talent of Kovy will be there
So instead we get the same ****show for those 4 years with 16.5 tied up in two guys and no legit 2nd line players. Ok, I see.

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04-14-2010, 07:11 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Alright, #1, commas.

Number two, at the end of two seasons, Drury, Avery, and Rozsival come off the books, allowing us to sign a top flite player.

At that point, MDZ will be 22, Staal 25, Callahan and Dubi will be prime, Kreider and Stepan will be NHL ready, and Lundqvist and Gaborik will still have a two years left on their contracts.

You tell me we cant be competitive with that.
Yet there's no guarantee a top flight player will be available then. There is one now, so you sign him, and do what it takes to make it work.

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Old
04-14-2010, 07:12 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Axxion89 View Post
I love how half of the people on these boards want to pay $8 million plus for Kovy only to have him end up being the next noose around the Ranger's salary cap! We needs a center more than anything else, we have our elite winger in Gaborik. What we need to do is either trade for a center or wait until a GOOD one is available (not Plekanic or Marleau). I would love to somehow get Brad Richards on this team which would give us a true number one center. If we had even a decent center who could create space, that would open up the ice for our wingers to score.

However, I'm sure Sather will do anything in his power to sign Kovy because it would bring in tons of revenue for people to see him play at MSG. As long as Sather doesn't sign Marleau, I won't go completely mad


Hahaha wow. I am no fan of Kovy either and don't want him here but you just dissed acquiring Kovy and then supported getting Brad Richards.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS BRAD RICHARDS IS WHAT WE NEEEEEEEEEEED WOOOOOO

Not that this has anything to do with UFA but can Gilroy please be shown the door?

If we trade him now maybe we can still get a decent draft pick back for him.

This kid will never be anything in the NHL and I think Torts knows that.

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Old
04-14-2010, 07:12 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Precisely.

And ill go...Marian Gaborik, and Brendan Shanahan for 300 Alex...
The problem is never paying the true star player big money. It's paying 2nd liner like a star player.

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Old
04-14-2010, 07:16 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Yet there's no guarantee a top flight player will be available then. There is one now, so you sign him, and do what it takes to make it work.
I dont buy the "now now now" argument.

You dont handicap your team NOW, while Drury and Rozy are on the books, you stay the course, grow the core of your team, and in two years, you sign. Or you wait one more year and Crosby is a UFA, with 1 year still left on Lundqvist and Gaborik.

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