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Babchuk wants return a Cane

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Old
04-14-2010, 05:07 PM
  #26
Vagrant
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You know, I don't think he's reading too much into that. I read it kind of the same way. Most of the "inclusive" terms like "us" were used in the past tense. It seemed to me that he made pains to not use inclusive language when talking about Babchuk's future.

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04-14-2010, 05:35 PM
  #27
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No thanks to babs. Taking a lower spot from cheaper young guys. Sign and trade. Please.

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04-14-2010, 06:06 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
No thanks to babs. Taking a lower spot from cheaper young guys. Sign and trade. Please.
This. I was kinda afraid to say it because of the Babchuk fan club on here, but the guy doesn't deserve to play for our organization after leaving it 2 separate times. I'd love to package him and one of our 2nds to try to get back into the first round. But unfortunately a lot of GMs are probably scared away from Babchuk because if you don't give him what he wants he acts like a child.

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04-14-2010, 06:22 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
This. I was kinda afraid to say it because of the Babchuk fan club on here, but the guy doesn't deserve to play for our organization after leaving it 2 separate times. I'd love to package him and one of our 2nds to try to get back into the first round. But unfortunately a lot of GMs are probably scared away from Babchuk because if you don't give him what he wants he acts like a child.
Meh, if we can trade Babchuk and say the Washington second for a first then why the hell not? I'd like to see him back but I won't disagree with a fair return and that's a fair return.

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04-14-2010, 06:23 PM
  #30
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Wouldn't mind if he signed here, and wouldn't mind if he signed and was traded somewhere else.

The only problem with that, however, is it'd have to be with a Western Conference team. JR may have a stick up his...about Babs, but he knows damn well that if Babs played in the East, he'd be good for a goal or two a game against us.

16 goals with us + Eerie fact that former players play especially well against us + Motivation to prove JR wrong = Bad news for Carolina.

Not to mention how many teams need that hard shot from the blueline. Why make our conference opponents better?

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04-14-2010, 06:48 PM
  #31
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I cant see him playing here. Plus his value to this organization is lower than it was last offseason and they couldnt come to an agreement. They dont need him on the PP 1st unit for the upcoming season...and with the shift lengths Jamie and Joni had on the PP, Anton would hardly see the ice during the 2 minutes. He clearly has value, i just dont think it is here and frankly he doesnt fill the role currently needed IMO.

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04-14-2010, 07:07 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by eerodynamic View Post
I cant see him playing here. Plus his value to this organization is lower than it was last offseason and they couldnt come to an agreement. They dont need him on the PP 1st unit for the upcoming season...and with the shift lengths Jamie and Joni had on the PP, Anton would hardly see the ice during the 2 minutes. He clearly has value, i just dont think it is here and frankly he doesnt fill the role currently needed IMO.
Pitkanen and McBain were only taking those extra long shifts because there was no defenseman worth playing on the second unit. With Babchuk here it's a different story.

And the powerplay pretty much sucked during that timespan, so how does that indicate that we don't need Babchuk's skillset there?

And even if it was good, why do we only need two offensive D? So we can play Pitkanen 30 minutes a game and McBain 25, then put ourselves in a bad situation if either of them get hurt?

Babchuk only got a little 2:22 of powerplay time a game last time he was here and still scored 16 goals and 35 points in 72 games. That's only 31 seconds a game more than Gleason got this season.

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04-14-2010, 07:59 PM
  #33
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The more I think about it and see JRs words, I'm leaning towards sign/trade.

JR holds major grudge and I just don't see how he can forgive/forget in a year. I also don't see Babchuk being all thrilled to actually play for the Canes. We all know Babchuk will be gone as soon as he's a free agent. JR isn't dumb, he knows this as well. Is he really going to do Babchuk a favor, bring him back only to see him leave for nothing. I sure don't.

I think if Babchuk is signed to an NHL contract, he's easier to trade and we could actually get something for him. I don't see many GMs taking a chance on a guy not signed in Russia, but having a contract in NA, its easier for a GM to bite.

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04-14-2010, 08:11 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imayagainknowanton View Post
Babchuk only got a little 2:22 of powerplay time a game last time he was here and still scored 16 goals and 35 points in 72 games. That's only 31 seconds a game more than Gleason got this season.
In the sake of full disclosure, you know as well as anybody else that during Babchuk's productive 40 game streak he probably had 3:30-4:00 per game on the powerplay. The first part of the season offensively was largely a write off for him and he didn't get much if any powerplay time until he started to produce more desirable results.

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04-14-2010, 08:33 PM
  #35
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this is great..... another entire offseason arguing about the same ol' defenseman that some think is good and some think is decent. I cant wait till he's gone if just for the fact that i wont have to see this same thread rear its ugly head anymore

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04-14-2010, 09:35 PM
  #36
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Babchuk is a one trick pony. I don't really buy that he'll help our PP out that much. His only asset there is his shot (and before 08-09, he was pretty inaccurate). Any physical, hard forechecking team can take him out of the game. He'll have to have another season with an inflated shooting % (relative to his career average) to have a chance at sniffing 16 goals again.

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04-14-2010, 09:48 PM
  #37
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He did have an inflated shooting percentage, but he also spent half the season being given zero go ahead as far as offensive chances. It would balance out.

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04-14-2010, 09:55 PM
  #38
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The Devils and Bruins showed to a T how to neutralize/eliminate Babchuk's shot from the point last playoffs. Just hit the guy and finish your check everytime he goes back to retrieve the puck in his own zone and you've already got Babchuk frustrated and off his game... which is mind-boggling really. It's not like Babs is some 6'5'' beanpole. He's got some weight on him. It would be nice to see him use it. That's just my biggest problem with his game, other than he's one dimensional.

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04-14-2010, 10:00 PM
  #39
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he was one of the worst 6'4" defenseman ive ever seen. definitely the weakest on his skates. continually bullied off the puck in the corners by far smaller players. lead feet in his own end, no poise in his own end with or without the puck. he did two things well, rush straight forward with the puck, and shoot. almost never both at the same time mind you. once people rush his shot, he wasnt very good on the pp. he had just scored a ton of goals, and they still didnt trust him in the playoffs. he is a risk at all times. he could be the 7th d man and play him on pp only, i suppose. he is not a top 4 guy, which means he could be taking a job from carson or mcbain who should both be on the team. i wouldnt give up pothier for two babchuks. better in all zones, and a better pp guy even. he only lacks 10 mph on his shot in comparison to babs, of course he puts his shots on net with a hell of a lot more frequency. pothier should be a priority. as trading babs should be. i second the idea of packaging him with a pick to move up.

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04-14-2010, 10:07 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
he was one of the worst 6'4" defenseman ive ever seen. definitely the weakest on his skates. continually bullied off the puck in the corners by far smaller players. lead feet in his own end, no poise in his own end with or without the puck. he did two things well, rush straight forward with the puck, and shoot. almost never both at the same time mind you. once people rush his shot, he wasnt very good on the pp. he had just scored a ton of goals, and they still didnt trust him in the playoffs. he is a risk at all times. he could be the 7th d man and play him on pp only, i suppose. he is not a top 4 guy, which means he could be taking a job from carson or mcbain who should both be on the team. i wouldnt give up pothier for two babchuks. better in all zones, and a better pp guy even. he only lacks 10 mph on his shot in comparison to babs, of course he puts his shots on net with a hell of a lot more frequency. pothier should be a priority. as trading babs should be. i second the idea of packaging him with a pick to move up.
Couldn't have said it any better. This is one of the few things we agree on, LOL.

I'm fine with:
Pitkanen - Gleason
McBain - UFA/Pothier
Carson - UFA/whoever/darkhorse from camp

At least for next season.

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04-14-2010, 10:16 PM
  #41
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The Anton Babchuk fanclub will be in full motion at any moment. Stay tuned. Or don't, this will be the same debate that has taken place in 50 threads prior to this one. With that said, I agree with the two previous posts by Erik Staal & bleedgreen.

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04-14-2010, 10:55 PM
  #42
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Not sure when it became an either/or situation between Babs and Pothier, as that's a no brainer given this team's lack of defensive-defensemen. Because that's what Pothier is, a defensive-defenseman.

In terms of PP time, Babs should get the nod regardless of what you think of him. To say otherwise is to let your dislike of him cloud your judgment. Hell, Carson or Rodney should be getting PP time over Pothier.

It's not a knock against Pothier, it's simply the way the two players have developed. Offensively, Babchuk's got the edge over Pothier.

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04-14-2010, 11:44 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
Couldn't have said it any better. This is one of the few things we agree on, LOL.

I'm fine with:
Pitkanen - Gleason
McBain - UFA/Pothier
Carson - UFA/whoever/darkhorse from camp

At least for next season.
McBain will play with Joni... I think you mark that down


McBain is about the only player I've ever seen Joni play with that looked comfortable... Joni is not easy to play with

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04-15-2010, 12:20 AM
  #44
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We already have guys to run the PP. I'm not worried about that at all, honestly. Babchuk is not much of a puck mover, nor is he really good at skating up the ice and gaining the zone. Literally all he has is a huge bomb from the point which can be neutralized when you gun for him. That would be okay if Babs didn't handle the puck like a grenade and could make a pass to the open guy when he is getting pressured. But like I said.. he can't do that. Or at least he hasn't shown he can in the NHL consistently. At best he is a bottom pairing d-man (or a very borderline #4) who is a PP specialist (only because of his shot) which is why I'm baffled some people are so enamored with him. Basically, he's a 6'5'' Marc-Andre Bergeron.

Just my opinion, of course.

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04-15-2010, 12:25 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
We already have guys to run the PP. I'm not worried about that at all, honestly. Babchuk is not much of a puck mover, nor is he really good at skating up the ice and gaining the zone. Literally all he has is a huge bomb from the point which can be neutralized when you gun for him. That would be okay if Babs didn't handle the puck like a grenade and could make a pass to the open guy when he is getting pressured. But like I said.. he can't do that. Or at least he hasn't showed he can in the NHL consistently. At best he is a bottom pairing d-man (or a very borderline #4) who is a PP specialist (only because of his shot) which is why I'm baffled some people are so enamored with him. Basically, he's a 6'5'' Marc-Andre Bergeron.

Just my opinion, of course.
MAB is a massive defensive liability...Babchuk plays a solid positional game and honestly anything to help our pathetic PP is a plus. If people try and shut Babchuk down it leaves Mcbain/Pitkanen open to work their magic.

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04-15-2010, 12:27 AM
  #46
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We can use ANY help on the PP, that I do know

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04-15-2010, 12:34 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by GloveSave View Post
MAB is a massive defensive liability...Babchuk plays a solid positional game and honestly anything to help our pathetic PP is a plus. If people try and shut Babchuk down it leaves Mcbain/Pitkanen open to work their magic.
I happen to think Babchuk is a defensive liability too, that's where most people's opinions differ though (queue the posts about how he had a positive +/- last year so that automatically means he's a decent defender - yet MAB has logged similar +/- numbers before as well, in fact MAB has logged a positive +/- multiple times in his career before while Babchuk only ever did last year). He's very slow laterally and is made to look like a pylon against the quicker players. Usually bigger guys like that compensate by being physical or with smart stickwork, neither of which I see much with Babchuk. If we want a guy to help our PP whose only real skill is a huge shot, why don't we give Jeff Hamilton a call?

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04-15-2010, 01:00 AM
  #48
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I think the stickwork is where the main difference between the two sides comes from. Everyone agrees he's slow, everyone agrees he's got a hell of a shot, but it's the defensive aspect that the main disagreement comes from.

No one's claiming he's great defensively. I think on the best of nights, the most you could call him is average defensively. And if he isn't partnered with someone who can cover his weakness (like when he was partnered with Melichar last year), then he'll likely be on the wrong end of the red light special more often than not. The same could be said of many defensemen, however; Joni being one of them.

And while +/- isn't the end all, be all stat to determine defensive ability, it's also not one you can throw out completely, especially when there are outliers. Last season, Brindamour's +/- was a huge outlier, not because of bad luck, but because for a good portion of the season, he was terrible defensively. In that same vein, Babchuk and Pitkanen as a defensive pairing had a much higher +/- than the rest of our defensive core. Even if it's just a fluke chemistry thing, there's no denying that both players looked worlds better when paired with each other than they had with their other defensive partners.

I think it'd be remiss to trade Babchuk without first seeing what he brings to camp. If he clearly isn't up to standards or there's clearly some rift between him and the other players, trade him. If everything seems hunky-dory, then the big decision has to be made. Special teams are a huge part of a contending team, and a deadly PP could easily put this team back in playoff contention.

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04-15-2010, 09:11 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Not sure when it became an either/or situation between Babs and Pothier, as that's a no brainer given this team's lack of defensive-defensemen. Because that's what Pothier is, a defensive-defenseman.

In terms of PP time, Babs should get the nod regardless of what you think of him. To say otherwise is to let your dislike of him cloud your judgment. Hell, Carson or Rodney should be getting PP time over Pothier.

It's not a knock against Pothier, it's simply the way the two players have developed. Offensively, Babchuk's got the edge over Pothier.
Pothier is not a defensive-D. He is primarily a puck-mover who can play a decent defensive game, more of a hybrid player but with a finesse style. He isn't great on either side of the puck and Babchuk certainly has a better point-shot but Pothier is a much better passer, puck-mover, skater and decision-maker.

The problem with Babchuk on the point is that if you take away his shot, you have almost nothing. When you overplay and pressure other points to take away their shots, they can hurt you with their passing. With Babchuk, you mostly get turnovers. He is like the pitcher who can throw 100 mph but offers little else but has lots of fans nonetheless.

With the youth movement, I'm not sure management is going to want a guy with his baggage around who really has never proven himself outside of 25 games in the NHL. Yes, he was decent in other stretches with Pitkanen but when people hang their hats on his 16 goals they have to remember that the majority of them came during his hot streak. Way too much attention on a guy with such flaws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
I think the stickwork is where the main difference between the two sides comes from. Everyone agrees he's slow, everyone agrees he's got a hell of a shot, but it's the defensive aspect that the main disagreement comes from.
If you want to see a guy who systemically and tactically uses his stickwork to great advantage, watch Pothier. He is excellent both in terms of extension and lifting other player's sticks. Then there are the guys like F. Kaberle, who use their stick to stay out of the fray because they don't like contact. Babcuk is more closely aligned with Kabs.

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Old
04-15-2010, 11:54 AM
  #50
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what he said ^^^^^^

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